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klacker1 · 12-06-2007, 06:52 PM

Hey people... I'm not too knowledgeable about cars, only that I want mine to go as fast as possible! Ive gotten great advice here from you guys and therefore went with the H22 for my 90 Accord. Everything is going great, but was gonna try to make everything a bit colder under the hood. Which is better, a transmission cooler or an intercooler??? I know most turbo charged cars have intercoolers, but is it possible to have one for a car without a turbo? thanks for your help everyone!

daveholiday · 12-06-2007, 07:09 PM

Here's the way I see it, others may see it a lot differently. I don't know about a transmission cooler to be honestly, so I'll skip that, I'm not even sure what it is exactly besides my obvious assumption that it cools your transmission

Anyway, as far as an intercooler, that would help with the temp of the air entering your intake, I guess, but do you realize how much extra pipe you're going to have? I assume you mean a FMI, so there's going to be a TON of extra pipe, and you're throttle response will probably be close to non-existent. Do you want to cool down the temp of the bay or of the air? A simple CAI will suffice, or if you'd like to stick the in-bay intakes, then you can buy a scoop, or make a duct that leads into your bay. For example, on my crx, the fog light slot on the side of the intake is cut out, and there's a duct that leads right into my engine bay, right under my air filter. Is this 100% effective or fool proof? No. But it gets air in there, little bit colder and into my intake and little bit colder air into my engine bay. Not much, but a little.

Thats my look

klacker1 · 12-06-2007, 07:22 PM

Thanks for the info! Now, I don't really know the terms FMI and such... so I suppose I'll look those up. The reason why I ask this is cuz I spoke to a mechanic and he said that both of these coolers would work to cool things down under the hood, but he doesn't specialize in performance and my performance mechanics are out of town at the moment, so I am asking on hondaswap. I basically want everything to be at a colder/lower temperature (but not too low) to have the car running better. Right now, when my car gets really hot, it's acceleration begins to suck balls when I come to a complete stop and take off again.

daveholiday · 12-06-2007, 07:28 PM

FMI is short for front mount intercooler.

Definitions of Transmission Cooler on the Web:
A heat exchanger similar to a small radiator through which automatic transmission fluid passes and is cooled by airflow.
www.rv-coach.com/rv/glossary/terms/glossary.htmla heat disperser in which the transmission fluid passes through coils and is cooled by airflow.
www.rv-help.com/glossary.htm
I assume that this would only help, but how much it would help is beyond me, until now, I didn't even know about them. I don't know how much it would cool down the engine bay. I honestly would say to get some sort of scoop, or duct to get more air into your engine bay, that will help. I know a kid on here who actually installed a Mercedes pusher fan, which I believe helped cool down his stuff a lot.

klacker1 · 12-06-2007, 07:39 PM

Cool! Well, here's the thing... I have one transmission cooler in there right now, but still, things get a bit too heated cuz I can feel some of the heat coming through the AC vents and around my CD player faceplate. So I found out that I can have another one in there for a total of two transmission coolers. The mechanic said that would help alot, but, again, didn't say how much it would help. I was also gonna get a carbon fiber hood with vents on it... would that allow more air flow into my bay?

daveholiday · 12-06-2007, 07:48 PM

Sure would. That'd be the best choice as apposed to buying a hood scoop and installing it or something, I just wasn't sure if you wanted to spend the money on a new hood.

BrutalB83 · 12-06-2007, 08:14 PM

I'm not convinced that some thing's not wrong with the car. I don't understand why it's overheating to begin with. I mean if this was an H22 into a Civic and he was using a puny little half-radiator, you might expect some problems with excess heat. Into an Accord though? The H22 is like a stock motor into the Accord, so I don't understand why it would be behaving like that.

klacker1 · 12-06-2007, 09:07 PM

I agree with you Brutal. I'm almost convinced something's wrong with the car. It runs great and all, and even though it's not overheating, it does get kinda hot, but the temp needle never goes to red or anything and my car never smokes or anything like that. But like I mentioned, once it does get warmed up and running after like 20 minutes, if I come to a complete stop and start up again, my acceleration sucks balls!! I don't understand it... I wonder if anyone else has had this problem. Got any suggestions Brutal?

norcalgsr · 12-06-2007, 09:48 PM

I swapped an H22 into a 91 Accord and never had any issues with it becoming hot at all. My guess is that something isn't right with your cooling system. Clogged radiator, bad water pump, cooling fan problem, something of that nature possibly.

charleskwinter · 12-07-2007, 06:42 AM

yes... address this issue first. if you really trust the guys that did this install, take it to them and tell them what you are experiencing. if you think they are blowing you off, you need to get a second opinion. you can ask a lot of questions on the web but some things need to be experienced in person.

i am with dave holiday on intake cooling... in my opinion, you should segregate the air filter from the heat of the engine bay and then provide fresh air in this area. the picture in my head is some sort of a box in that area of the engine compartment. usually things are set up for cold air from stock (like the crx) so most of the access is already there. keep in mind that unless you are stopped completely there is plenty of fresh air coming in around your headlights, hood and other areas.

klacker1 · 12-07-2007, 02:16 PM

Oh, trust me, there's enough air going through everywhere. I also already have a cold air intake, which is what confuses me a little more about the heat problem. The guys that did the work are very trustworthy, because they did the work quick and it all worked great in the beginning. They're just out of town at the moment. Rest assured I'll be asking them all these questions and they'll be checking it out. They're the ones located on the website on my signature... one of the very few performance places I could find in Los Angeles... i couldn't find a single website for one in L.A. They're really great in my opinion. They'll be back soon, so it's good stuff.

charleskwinter · 12-07-2007, 03:42 PM

i am starting to read way too much into this thread...

yeah, upon further review i think whatever you are doing is ridiculous...

klacker1 · 12-07-2007, 05:19 PM

I don't understand. What do you mean by that?

bladktr4 · 12-13-2007, 06:06 PM

I havea 90 Acoord with an H22 and it never over heats i think that ethier tha motor has problems with it or its something worst

klacker1 · 12-13-2007, 06:11 PM

Well see, here's the thing. It's not overheating, it just gets really hot underneath the gear-shift, but the main thing is once it's warmed up, the acceleration is super crappy. My mechanic advised me it may be an ECU problem. He took a look at it and he said someone "supposedly" chipped the P13, but from what I hear, you can't chip those. He advised me to get a P28 chipped with a prelude program. He's gonna review the car tomorrow for any other errors he may find.

norcalgsr · 12-13-2007, 10:13 PM

If it is chipped you should be able to have someone make you a chip with a stock map to put in the one you have now. I don't see any reason not to keep the P13 unless there's something else wrong with it.

Did you happen to remove any of the heat shielding above the exhaust, under the gear shift area, when you did the H22 swap? I remember cutting a small hole underneath the shifter area on one of my old Hondas and it created a lot more heat on the shifter. Just a thought..

trugundampilot · 01-23-2008, 07:02 PM

u should use the p28 & have it set up exactly for the h22. did u keep all the h22 sensors & use the accord harness? i did the same swap w/ a 91 accord using the p28 because the p13 couldn't be chipped or so i was told; i have a whole crew that has worked for honda for 8 yrs or more & they all say that the p13 wont run it right w/ the swap. i xed out the knock sensor & the crank sensor & wired the vtech to the ecu. i wanted to use the h's harness since i have it, but 100 people said it wouldn't fit the engine bay which didn't make since to me because this is the engine that comes in this car in japan & it's a jdm h22 so y wouldn't it fit. but i guess that's just the way it is sometimes

norcalgsr · 01-24-2008, 10:29 PM

The P13 comes stock on the 92-95 Prelude VTEC so I would love to know why they think it won't run right. Having personally swapped an H22a into a 91 Accord with a P13 ECU I can tell you it runs perfectly fine.

trugundampilot · 01-27-2008, 04:26 PM

well if you r running it str8t stock w/ no mods i guess maybe it would. did u use the accord harness & add the vtec, knock & iab in. i use a skunk2 intake mani so there is no iab or egr or crank sensor, so that's prbly y we didn't use it & everyone says u can't chip the p13, which i don't get because i wondered the same thing myself. also did u get any cel at all. in the process of finishing up myself so any input would b gr8tly appreciated

trugundampilot · 01-27-2008, 04:29 PM

i also xed out the knock sensor as well

norcalgsr · 01-28-2008, 10:18 PM

The one I did was an OBD1 JDM H22a into a 91 Accord DX. Used all Accord wiring harness and added the extra wires (VTEC, IAB, knock etc.) to the stock ECU plugs and ran a stock JDM p13. No CEL and everything was working properly on that job.

Not sure about chipping the p13 he never wanted to go that far.. just kept it stock.

Uncle Buck · 01-29-2008, 03:33 AM

quick question..... how are the fins on the front of the radiator.... ive seen some cars with some F*d up fins before and make drastic changes....

93AccordEX · 01-30-2008, 10:59 AM

dont know if anyone has brought this up yet but header wraps keep alot of heat in
instead of under the hood

accord.owner · 02-02-2008, 10:56 PM

header wraps are good for keeping heat in and having the exhaust leave the faster. however, the use of heat wraps shortens the life of the steel headers from the extreme changes in temperature when the car is running and cooling down. when i had a custom exhaust put on, the owner was explaining it to me from experiences his friends had when drag racing. the constant temperature changes causes the metal to expand and contract and over time it causes cracking. with drag racing you may be lucky to have a header last a year or two with heat wrap on it. for street use, maybe 3-4 years. to me it isnt worth having it when you are just going to have to spend more money in the future to replace a steel header.

my 2 cents worth

charleskwinter · 02-02-2008, 11:53 PM

i have also heard that the header wraps can cause galvanic corrosion... ceramic coated is probably the best choice. and collapsed cooling fins on a radiator make a big difference. the a/c radiator is usually in front and takes the beating, but will also restrict the airflow to the radiator if collapsed too much. is this thread old or what? does the original thread starter care what we have to say??

12-06-2007, 06:52 PM	#1
klacker1 EX all the way! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 20 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Accord EX Rep Power: 6	Cooling down my H22 Accord. Hey people... I'm not too knowledgeable about cars, only that I want mine to go as fast as possible! Ive gotten great advice here from you guys and therefore went with the H22 for my 90 Accord. Everything is going great, but was gonna try to make everything a bit colder under the hood. Which is better, a transmission cooler or an intercooler??? I know most turbo charged cars have intercoolers, but is it possible to have one for a car without a turbo? thanks for your help everyone! __________________

12-06-2007, 07:09 PM	#2
daveholiday Sonnova Bitch! Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Age: 21 Posts: 1,662 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2006 GSX-R 600, 2003 Santa Fe GLS Rep Power: 44	Here's the way I see it, others may see it a lot differently. I don't know about a transmission cooler to be honestly, so I'll skip that, I'm not even sure what it is exactly besides my obvious assumption that it cools your transmission Anyway, as far as an intercooler, that would help with the temp of the air entering your intake, I guess, but do you realize how much extra pipe you're going to have? I assume you mean a FMI, so there's going to be a TON of extra pipe, and you're throttle response will probably be close to non-existent. Do you want to cool down the temp of the bay or of the air? A simple CAI will suffice, or if you'd like to stick the in-bay intakes, then you can buy a scoop, or make a duct that leads into your bay. For example, on my crx, the fog light slot on the side of the intake is cut out, and there's a duct that leads right into my engine bay, right under my air filter. Is this 100% effective or fool proof? No. But it gets air in there, little bit colder and into my intake and little bit colder air into my engine bay. Not much, but a little. Thats my look __________________ http://davesstainedglass.webs.com/

12-06-2007, 07:22 PM	#3
klacker1 EX all the way! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 20 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Accord EX Rep Power: 6	Thanks for the info! Now, I don't really know the terms FMI and such... so I suppose I'll look those up. The reason why I ask this is cuz I spoke to a mechanic and he said that both of these coolers would work to cool things down under the hood, but he doesn't specialize in performance and my performance mechanics are out of town at the moment, so I am asking on hondaswap. I basically want everything to be at a colder/lower temperature (but not too low) to have the car running better. Right now, when my car gets really hot, it's acceleration begins to suck balls when I come to a complete stop and take off again. __________________

12-06-2007, 07:28 PM	#4
daveholiday Sonnova Bitch! Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Age: 21 Posts: 1,662 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2006 GSX-R 600, 2003 Santa Fe GLS Rep Power: 44	FMI is short for front mount intercooler. Definitions of Transmission Cooler on the Web: A heat exchanger similar to a small radiator through which automatic transmission fluid passes and is cooled by airflow. www.rv-coach.com/rv/glossary/terms/glossary.htmla heat disperser in which the transmission fluid passes through coils and is cooled by airflow. www.rv-help.com/glossary.htm I assume that this would only help, but how much it would help is beyond me, until now, I didn't even know about them. I don't know how much it would cool down the engine bay. I honestly would say to get some sort of scoop, or duct to get more air into your engine bay, that will help. I know a kid on here who actually installed a Mercedes pusher fan, which I believe helped cool down his stuff a lot. __________________ http://davesstainedglass.webs.com/

12-06-2007, 07:39 PM	#5
klacker1 EX all the way! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 20 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Accord EX Rep Power: 6	Cool! Well, here's the thing... I have one transmission cooler in there right now, but still, things get a bit too heated cuz I can feel some of the heat coming through the AC vents and around my CD player faceplate. So I found out that I can have another one in there for a total of two transmission coolers. The mechanic said that would help alot, but, again, didn't say how much it would help. I was also gonna get a carbon fiber hood with vents on it... would that allow more air flow into my bay? __________________


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12-06-2007, 07:48 PM	#6
daveholiday Sonnova Bitch! Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Age: 21 Posts: 1,662 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2006 GSX-R 600, 2003 Santa Fe GLS Rep Power: 44	Sure would. That'd be the best choice as apposed to buying a hood scoop and installing it or something, I just wasn't sure if you wanted to spend the money on a new hood. __________________ http://davesstainedglass.webs.com/

12-06-2007, 08:14 PM	#7
BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Rochester Hills, MI Age: 26 Posts: 7,830 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 97 Integra LS Coupe Rep Power: 191	I'm not convinced that some thing's not wrong with the car. I don't understand why it's overheating to begin with. I mean if this was an H22 into a Civic and he was using a puny little half-radiator, you might expect some problems with excess heat. Into an Accord though? The H22 is like a stock motor into the Accord, so I don't understand why it would be behaving like that. __________________ If you find something I say helpful, please send some rep my way! Also, DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums so we can all benefit from the answers. I will NOT respond to tech-related PMs... PSN Network ID: BrutalB83

12-06-2007, 09:07 PM	#8
klacker1 EX all the way! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 20 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Accord EX Rep Power: 6	I agree with you Brutal. I'm almost convinced something's wrong with the car. It runs great and all, and even though it's not overheating, it does get kinda hot, but the temp needle never goes to red or anything and my car never smokes or anything like that. But like I mentioned, once it does get warmed up and running after like 20 minutes, if I come to a complete stop and start up again, my acceleration sucks balls!! I don't understand it... I wonder if anyone else has had this problem. Got any suggestions Brutal? __________________

12-06-2007, 09:48 PM	#9
norcalgsr Honda Master Technician Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NorCal Age: 27 Posts: 1,168 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 88 Prelude Si and a CBR 600 Hurricane Rep Power: 21	I swapped an H22 into a 91 Accord and never had any issues with it becoming hot at all. My guess is that something isn't right with your cooling system. Clogged radiator, bad water pump, cooling fan problem, something of that nature possibly. __________________ Do not PM with tech questions without providing a link to your topic on the forums. This way everyone has access to the information..

12-07-2007, 06:42 AM	#10
charleskwinter ignore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: idaho Age: 29 Posts: 251 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 90 crx si, e36 m3, cbrF3, 87 civic gl Rep Power: 12	yes... address this issue first. if you really trust the guys that did this install, take it to them and tell them what you are experiencing. if you think they are blowing you off, you need to get a second opinion. you can ask a lot of questions on the web but some things need to be experienced in person. i am with dave holiday on intake cooling... in my opinion, you should segregate the air filter from the heat of the engine bay and then provide fresh air in this area. the picture in my head is some sort of a box in that area of the engine compartment. usually things are set up for cold air from stock (like the crx) so most of the access is already there. keep in mind that unless you are stopped completely there is plenty of fresh air coming in around your headlights, hood and other areas. __________________ .. .................................

12-07-2007, 02:16 PM	#11
klacker1 EX all the way! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 20 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Accord EX Rep Power: 6	Oh, trust me, there's enough air going through everywhere. I also already have a cold air intake, which is what confuses me a little more about the heat problem. The guys that did the work are very trustworthy, because they did the work quick and it all worked great in the beginning. They're just out of town at the moment. Rest assured I'll be asking them all these questions and they'll be checking it out. They're the ones located on the website on my signature... one of the very few performance places I could find in Los Angeles... i couldn't find a single website for one in L.A. They're really great in my opinion. They'll be back soon, so it's good stuff. __________________

12-07-2007, 03:42 PM	#12
charleskwinter ignore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: idaho Age: 29 Posts: 251 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 90 crx si, e36 m3, cbrF3, 87 civic gl Rep Power: 12	i am starting to read way too much into this thread... yeah, upon further review i think whatever you are doing is ridiculous... __________________ .. ................................. Last edited by charleskwinter; 12-07-2007 at 03:46 PM. Reason: more evidence

12-07-2007, 05:19 PM	#13
klacker1 EX all the way! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 20 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Accord EX Rep Power: 6	I don't understand. What do you mean by that? __________________

12-13-2007, 06:06 PM	#14
bladktr4 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	I havea 90 Acoord with an H22 and it never over heats i think that ethier tha motor has problems with it or its something worst

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12-13-2007, 06:11 PM	#15
klacker1 EX all the way! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 20 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Accord EX Rep Power: 6	Well see, here's the thing. It's not overheating, it just gets really hot underneath the gear-shift, but the main thing is once it's warmed up, the acceleration is super crappy. My mechanic advised me it may be an ECU problem. He took a look at it and he said someone "supposedly" chipped the P13, but from what I hear, you can't chip those. He advised me to get a P28 chipped with a prelude program. He's gonna review the car tomorrow for any other errors he may find. __________________

12-13-2007, 10:13 PM	#16
norcalgsr Honda Master Technician Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NorCal Age: 27 Posts: 1,168 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 88 Prelude Si and a CBR 600 Hurricane Rep Power: 21	If it is chipped you should be able to have someone make you a chip with a stock map to put in the one you have now. I don't see any reason not to keep the P13 unless there's something else wrong with it. Did you happen to remove any of the heat shielding above the exhaust, under the gear shift area, when you did the H22 swap? I remember cutting a small hole underneath the shifter area on one of my old Hondas and it created a lot more heat on the shifter. Just a thought.. __________________ Do not PM with tech questions without providing a link to your topic on the forums. This way everyone has access to the information..

01-23-2008, 07:02 PM	#17
trugundampilot Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	u should use the p28 & have it set up exactly for the h22. did u keep all the h22 sensors & use the accord harness? i did the same swap w/ a 91 accord using the p28 because the p13 couldn't be chipped or so i was told; i have a whole crew that has worked for honda for 8 yrs or more & they all say that the p13 wont run it right w/ the swap. i xed out the knock sensor & the crank sensor & wired the vtech to the ecu. i wanted to use the h's harness since i have it, but 100 people said it wouldn't fit the engine bay which didn't make since to me because this is the engine that comes in this car in japan & it's a jdm h22 so y wouldn't it fit. but i guess that's just the way it is sometimes

01-24-2008, 10:29 PM	#18
norcalgsr Honda Master Technician Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NorCal Age: 27 Posts: 1,168 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 88 Prelude Si and a CBR 600 Hurricane Rep Power: 21	The P13 comes stock on the 92-95 Prelude VTEC so I would love to know why they think it won't run right. Having personally swapped an H22a into a 91 Accord with a P13 ECU I can tell you it runs perfectly fine. __________________ Do not PM with tech questions without providing a link to your topic on the forums. This way everyone has access to the information..

01-27-2008, 04:26 PM	#19
trugundampilot Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	well if you r running it str8t stock w/ no mods i guess maybe it would. did u use the accord harness & add the vtec, knock & iab in. i use a skunk2 intake mani so there is no iab or egr or crank sensor, so that's prbly y we didn't use it & everyone says u can't chip the p13, which i don't get because i wondered the same thing myself. also did u get any cel at all. in the process of finishing up myself so any input would b gr8tly appreciated

01-27-2008, 04:29 PM	#20
trugundampilot Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	i also xed out the knock sensor as well

01-28-2008, 10:18 PM	#21
norcalgsr Honda Master Technician Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NorCal Age: 27 Posts: 1,168 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 88 Prelude Si and a CBR 600 Hurricane Rep Power: 21	The one I did was an OBD1 JDM H22a into a 91 Accord DX. Used all Accord wiring harness and added the extra wires (VTEC, IAB, knock etc.) to the stock ECU plugs and ran a stock JDM p13. No CEL and everything was working properly on that job. Not sure about chipping the p13 he never wanted to go that far.. just kept it stock. __________________ Do not PM with tech questions without providing a link to your topic on the forums. This way everyone has access to the information..

01-29-2008, 03:33 AM	#22
Uncle Buck JDMDecals.com guru Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Spearfish, South Dakota Posts: 198 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 89 Prelude Si 4ws, 90 GS Integra Rep Power: 6	quick question..... how are the fins on the front of the radiator.... ive seen some cars with some F*d up fins before and make drastic changes....

01-30-2008, 10:59 AM	#23
93AccordEX HONDA HUMPER Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New York, Ellenville Age: 20 Posts: 261 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: A Spaceship! Rep Power: 12	dont know if anyone has brought this up yet but header wraps keep alot of heat in instead of under the hood

02-02-2008, 10:56 PM	#24
accord.owner Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	header wraps are good for keeping heat in and having the exhaust leave the faster. however, the use of heat wraps shortens the life of the steel headers from the extreme changes in temperature when the car is running and cooling down. when i had a custom exhaust put on, the owner was explaining it to me from experiences his friends had when drag racing. the constant temperature changes causes the metal to expand and contract and over time it causes cracking. with drag racing you may be lucky to have a header last a year or two with heat wrap on it. for street use, maybe 3-4 years. to me it isnt worth having it when you are just going to have to spend more money in the future to replace a steel header. my 2 cents worth

Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

Cooling down my H22 Accord.

02-02-2008, 11:53 PM	#25
charleskwinter ignore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: idaho Age: 29 Posts: 251 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 90 crx si, e36 m3, cbrF3, 87 civic gl Rep Power: 12	i have also heard that the header wraps can cause galvanic corrosion... ceramic coated is probably the best choice. and collapsed cooling fins on a radiator make a big difference. the a/c radiator is usually in front and takes the beating, but will also restrict the airflow to the radiator if collapsed too much. is this thread old or what? does the original thread starter care what we have to say?? __________________ .. .................................