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ScreamHonda · 06-14-2009, 09:39 PM

Hey everybody.

My name is Richard. Nice to meet ya'll. I'm a new member and thought I would start off by letting everyone in on MY little secret. Though, this is also me asking for advice.

I am currently building a H-series Frankenstein. For those who might be scratching their heads, my Frankenstein is going to have an H23 Non-VTEC short block with the H22 VTEC head.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Non-VTEC short block will have the stronger internals and stronger transmission, while the VTEC head will have the stronger valves, guides, seats, springs, etc., etc..

I am planning on re-sleeving and boring it out. Though, I am unsure as to how much. Boosting this engine is definately going to happen. 20 psi in a daily driver? Sounds good, no? I'm thinking either 15, at least.

That's all I got so far. Any advice on my build and what should happen would be much appreciated.

intenseneal · 06-16-2009, 05:38 PM

I dont know if the H23 is stronger than the H22 bottom end. With the B18 and B20 the B20 is weaker due to a thinner cylinder wall. The H22 Vtec head will for sure be better than its non Vtec counter part. Vtec heads flow very well just as Honda made them and the cams are sweet. The H23's trans will have longer gearing than the H22's, but that means better MPGs. Resleeving the H series motor is a very good idea. H motors have a coated cylnider wall that let oil to leak by and burn after time. Special pistons are also needed for the factor coated cylinder walls. Resleeving will solve all these issues plug give you options for compression, displacement and a bullet proof motor.

SlushboxTeggy · 06-16-2009, 06:35 PM

I don't know what kind of turbo you plan on running but I would suggest a dual stage boost controller. It will save your turbo. 10psi or less when cruising. 15-20 psi+ at the flip of a switch.

eg'sforlife · 06-16-2009, 07:12 PM

20 psi doesnt sound like a great idea for a DD.........but theres also other variable what kinda of turbo, size, condition of block and internals ect....... its not just about psi

cambruggeman · 06-16-2009, 09:11 PM

only the 96+ H blocks have the shitty FRM sleeves. the 95 and older blocks are iron and fine. you can bore them once and not need sleeves ussually, but on 20psi, i would probably sleeve anyway, and go with as big of a bore as you can. wiseco makes a .080 over piston for the H block. if your gonna go big, go big.

cambruggeman · 06-16-2009, 09:12 PM

see page 6

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Catalogs/SC07/AcuraHonda.pdf

BrutalB83 · 06-17-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambruggeman

only the 96+ H blocks have the shitty FRM sleeves. the 95 and older blocks are iron and fine.

Source on that please? I thought they all had the FRM sleeves. The difference between the first and second gen motors was closed deck versus open deck...

cambruggeman · 06-17-2009, 06:24 PM

follow the link to the wiseco catolog above. also, ive built a few of each now. the 92 to 95s are iron bore. 96+ is FRM and requires iron sleeves if you want forged pistons. probably a good idea on any boost application though. the FRM is a bad system for performance, it just doesnt last if you abuse it.

ScreamHonda · 06-19-2009, 05:07 PM

Thanks for the advice guys.

As far as turbo's are concerned...I'll more than likely use a T03/04 at first. Just to get an idea on what to expect from a turbocharged engine. That turbo won't be boosting very much. At most 10 pounds.

As far as re-sleeving, it's gunna happen. Mind is made up. Iron sleeves as apposed to the weaker FRM sleeves; My take is, " IRON FTW!!".

Now, for which bottom end to use, which one is stronger? The H23 or H22? I need to figure this out before I send off for a JDM. This is vital. I don't want to spend all my money on a block that won't be able to handle it all.

With the weight and power of the H-series my EK will have to get a beefier suspension upgrade. So, I'm thinking Tokico White and Reds. With polyurethane bushings all the way around.

Thanks for teh advice guys...Keep it coming.

intenseneal · 06-19-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambruggeman

only the 96+ H blocks have the shitty FRM sleeves. the 95 and older blocks are iron and fine. you can bore them once and not need sleeves ussually, but on 20psi, i would probably sleeve anyway, and go with as big of a bore as you can. wiseco makes a .080 over piston for the H block. if your gonna go big, go big.

All H series motor have the FRM lining as do the C30 and C32 and the B20a and B21 from the older Preludes. If you are building and sleeving the bottom end the either one will be fine. You can bore the H22 to a 2.3l or keep just start out with the H23 block. More displacement= power. Whats cheaper.

cambruggeman · 06-20-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intenseneal

All H series motor have the FRM lining as do the C30 and C32 and the B20a and B21 from the older Preludes. If you are building and sleeving the bottom end the either one will be fine. You can bore the H22 to a 2.3l or keep just start out with the H23 block. More displacement= power. Whats cheaper.

No, all H motors dont have the FRM sleeves. I have personally built 2 that didnt have it. including the one in my hatch now.

ScreamHonda · 06-27-2009, 09:15 PM

Well, the cheaper one would be the H23. I found one on tigerjapanese for 650 bones. Not that bad. I'm still doing some research. More advice would be wonderful.

Thanks guys.

b20ls · 06-27-2009, 10:29 PM

Have you not heard of a G23 combo?
It's a f-series block with a h-series head, the only none compatible parts are the main coolant hose, and the obviously the head gasket needs to be plugged in two places, search for the G23, good budget 240hp+ motor with stock internals.

ScreamHonda · 06-27-2009, 11:09 PM

Thanks for the advice there. I know where I could pick a F22 up for 200 bucks. Does anyone know where I could get a walkthrough on building one? Has it been done before?

As far as stock internals, it's not gunna be stock. It's getting boosted. a 12 psi daily driver. Racing it'll push 25 psi at most. So, far from stock internals are needed.

The idea is pretty good. Checking in on it now.

BrutalB83 · 06-28-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b20ls

Have you not heard of a G23 combo?
It's a f-series block with a h-series head, the only none compatible parts are the main coolant hose, and the obviously the head gasket needs to be plugged in two places, search for the G23, good budget 240hp+ motor with stock internals.

Have you not heard that it takes a lot more then just slapping the H22 head onto the F22 block to make that much power? Read up on it please. I definitely wouldn't call it a "budget build"...

b20ls · 06-28-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrutalB83

Have you not heard that it takes a lot more then just slapping the H22 head onto the F22 block to make that much power? Read up on it please. I definitely wouldn't call it a "budget build"...

I built one last year in my old 6th gen accord, except mine was a f23a1 block and a h22a head, stock mine made 232 bhp, and 212 ft-tq at dynospeed here in Memphis. The stroke is 97mm, and a 86mm stock bore. It cost me about 1600 bucks. That's for everything.

b20ls · 06-28-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamHonda

Thanks for the advice there. I know where I could pick a F22 up for 200 bucks. Does anyone know where I could get a walkthrough on building one? Has it been done before?

As far as stock internals, it's not gunna be stock. It's getting boosted. a 12 psi daily driver. Racing it'll push 25 psi at most. So, far from stock internals are needed.

The idea is pretty good. Checking in on it now.

Here is an article about the G23 build.

K24 VTEC V.S. G23 VTEC - Import Tuner Magazine

As far as you sticking to your original plan with your frank h-series, you can get forged pistons and rods for the h23 block, but the stock h23 sleeves will not take more than 18psi, even on a super amazing tune. I just sleeved my b20b block so now I'm going to run about 25psi on my b20b block/ b18a1 head frank motor. those the displacement is better with the h23 block, it'll a lot harder, and more expensive to get that thing sleeved than a h22. The h22 head can take that with stock valves for a while, but it'll eventually loose seal. I've spent almost $2200 on my motor so far, and I haven't gotten to the turbo kit or fuel system yet dude. To get 450hp+ you're going to have to put at least 3 grand to get it bullet proof. That was my reality a couple of months ago.

ScreamHonda · 06-28-2009, 11:01 PM

K24 VTEC V.S. G23 VTEC - Import Tuner Magazine

This is the Import Tuner article based around the G23. The G23 is about the same as the K24, maybe a little bit more HP and torque.

The only problems with the G23 would be the fabrication you have to do.

The water piping block offs. The oil drain block offs.

The only problem I see is trying to find the B16 trans. Plus, from where I'm from, (Missouri), it will be a problem trying to find an H22 long block, and the F23 short block. I can find F22's all day long. But, I don't think it'll really matter. The oil drains should be the same for the F22 as for the F23.

With the G23 without using the K20 pistons, the compression would be that of 8.8:1. Therefore, it's already to go for boosting. Though, with stock internals, I'd only run at most 10 psi.

So, as for the new plan, any comments or suggestions?

BrutalB83 · 06-29-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b20ls

I built one last year in my old 6th gen accord, except mine was a f23a1 block and a h22a head, stock mine made 232 bhp, and 212 ft-tq at dynospeed here in Memphis. The stroke is 97mm, and a 86mm stock bore. It cost me about 1600 bucks. That's for everything.

I apologize. It appears that you are correct. For some reason I got it in my head that you were just talking about F-series blocks in general, and not the F23 block in particular...

ScreamHonda · 07-02-2009, 11:49 PM

Any comments or suggestions about the G22?

06-14-2009, 09:39 PM	#1
ScreamHonda Greenhorn Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Age: 19 Posts: 6 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1996 Honda Civic DX Rep Power: 0	'96 EK H-series Frankenstein Hey everybody. My name is Richard. Nice to meet ya'll. I'm a new member and thought I would start off by letting everyone in on MY little secret. Though, this is also me asking for advice. I am currently building a H-series Frankenstein. For those who might be scratching their heads, my Frankenstein is going to have an H23 Non-VTEC short block with the H22 VTEC head. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Non-VTEC short block will have the stronger internals and stronger transmission, while the VTEC head will have the stronger valves, guides, seats, springs, etc., etc.. I am planning on re-sleeving and boring it out. Though, I am unsure as to how much. Boosting this engine is definately going to happen. 20 psi in a daily driver? Sounds good, no? I'm thinking either 15, at least. That's all I got so far. Any advice on my build and what should happen would be much appreciated.

06-16-2009, 06:35 PM	#3
SlushboxTeggy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 23 Posts: 6,494 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1997 Integra Rep Power: 196	I don't know what kind of turbo you plan on running but I would suggest a dual stage boost controller. It will save your turbo. 10psi or less when cruising. 15-20 psi+ at the flip of a switch. __________________ Like water on a duck's back, just let it roll off... RIP Shaunie T. O'Reilly- 1986-2006

06-27-2009, 10:29 PM	#13
b20ls Greenhorn Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Memphis, TN Age: 18 Posts: 5 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 91 integra gs Rep Power: 0	Okay... Have you not heard of a G23 combo? It's a f-series block with a h-series head, the only none compatible parts are the main coolant hose, and the obviously the head gasket needs to be plugged in two places, search for the G23, good budget 240hp+ motor with stock internals.

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06-16-2009, 05:38 PM	#2
intenseneal Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Age: 26 Posts: 85 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	I dont know if the H23 is stronger than the H22 bottom end. With the B18 and B20 the B20 is weaker due to a thinner cylinder wall. The H22 Vtec head will for sure be better than its non Vtec counter part. Vtec heads flow very well just as Honda made them and the cams are sweet. The H23's trans will have longer gearing than the H22's, but that means better MPGs. Resleeving the H series motor is a very good idea. H motors have a coated cylnider wall that let oil to leak by and burn after time. Special pistons are also needed for the factor coated cylinder walls. Resleeving will solve all these issues plug give you options for compression, displacement and a bullet proof motor.

06-16-2009, 07:12 PM	#4
eg'sforlife Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Whiteville, NC Age: 19 Posts: 382 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 92 Civic LX Rep Power: 14	20 psi doesnt sound like a great idea for a DD.........but theres also other variable what kinda of turbo, size, condition of block and internals ect....... its not just about psi

06-16-2009, 09:11 PM	#5
cambruggeman Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 45 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 3	only the 96+ H blocks have the shitty FRM sleeves. the 95 and older blocks are iron and fine. you can bore them once and not need sleeves ussually, but on 20psi, i would probably sleeve anyway, and go with as big of a bore as you can. wiseco makes a .080 over piston for the H block. if your gonna go big, go big.

06-16-2009, 09:12 PM	#6
cambruggeman Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 45 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 3	see page 6 http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Catalogs/SC07/AcuraHonda.pdf

06-17-2009, 06:24 PM	#8
cambruggeman Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 45 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 3	follow the link to the wiseco catolog above. also, ive built a few of each now. the 92 to 95s are iron bore. 96+ is FRM and requires iron sleeves if you want forged pistons. probably a good idea on any boost application though. the FRM is a bad system for performance, it just doesnt last if you abuse it.

06-19-2009, 05:07 PM	#9
ScreamHonda Greenhorn Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Age: 19 Posts: 6 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1996 Honda Civic DX Rep Power: 0	Thanks for the advice guys. As far as turbo's are concerned...I'll more than likely use a T03/04 at first. Just to get an idea on what to expect from a turbocharged engine. That turbo won't be boosting very much. At most 10 pounds. As far as re-sleeving, it's gunna happen. Mind is made up. Iron sleeves as apposed to the weaker FRM sleeves; My take is, " IRON FTW!!". Now, for which bottom end to use, which one is stronger? The H23 or H22? I need to figure this out before I send off for a JDM. This is vital. I don't want to spend all my money on a block that won't be able to handle it all. With the weight and power of the H-series my EK will have to get a beefier suspension upgrade. So, I'm thinking Tokico White and Reds. With polyurethane bushings all the way around. Thanks for teh advice guys...Keep it coming.

06-27-2009, 09:15 PM	#12
ScreamHonda Greenhorn Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Age: 19 Posts: 6 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1996 Honda Civic DX Rep Power: 0	Well, the cheaper one would be the H23. I found one on tigerjapanese for 650 bones. Not that bad. I'm still doing some research. More advice would be wonderful. Thanks guys.

06-27-2009, 11:09 PM	#14
ScreamHonda Greenhorn Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Age: 19 Posts: 6 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1996 Honda Civic DX Rep Power: 0	Thanks for the advice there. I know where I could pick a F22 up for 200 bucks. Does anyone know where I could get a walkthrough on building one? Has it been done before? As far as stock internals, it's not gunna be stock. It's getting boosted. a 12 psi daily driver. Racing it'll push 25 psi at most. So, far from stock internals are needed. The idea is pretty good. Checking in on it now.

06-28-2009, 11:01 PM	#18
ScreamHonda Greenhorn Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Age: 19 Posts: 6 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1996 Honda Civic DX Rep Power: 0	K24 VTEC V.S. G23 VTEC - Import Tuner Magazine This is the Import Tuner article based around the G23. The G23 is about the same as the K24, maybe a little bit more HP and torque. The only problems with the G23 would be the fabrication you have to do. The water piping block offs. The oil drain block offs. The only problem I see is trying to find the B16 trans. Plus, from where I'm from, (Missouri), it will be a problem trying to find an H22 long block, and the F23 short block. I can find F22's all day long. But, I don't think it'll really matter. The oil drains should be the same for the F22 as for the F23. With the G23 without using the K20 pistons, the compression would be that of 8.8:1. Therefore, it's already to go for boosting. Though, with stock internals, I'd only run at most 10 psi. So, as for the new plan, any comments or suggestions?

07-02-2009, 11:49 PM	#20
ScreamHonda Greenhorn Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Age: 19 Posts: 6 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1996 Honda Civic DX Rep Power: 0	Any comments or suggestions about the G22?

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'96 EK H-series Frankenstein