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philyphreak2127 · 03-29-2008, 05:06 PM

this is an autox type of car if anything. I don't really compete. I just take it down to the track we have and do time trials.

dtob · 03-29-2008, 05:19 PM

If that's what you are using the car for then why build an engine with soo much power?? All you would do is spin your tires around the whole track. You'd be better off with a stock or mildly built NA B16 or B18C.

philyphreak2127 · 03-29-2008, 05:23 PM

Cause I want the power. lol I drive those tracks for fun. I wanna be able to take it down the strip and put up decent numbers too. But I am really not looking for too much honestly. I would be happy with 200 whp. Pushing 300 something would be a drag car only.

dtob · 03-29-2008, 05:30 PM

Well I'm not going to tell you what to build. Just do some research on different builds then figure out what you want.

philyphreak2127 · 03-29-2008, 05:54 PM

dude I have done research and I ain't paying for a b-swap. I already got the full y8 swap with a brand new head gasket, and arp head studs, plus an oil pan with a female welded in. So I have the start of a turbo motor. I just need to continue it.

Luis998 · 03-29-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

400-500whp with a properly built block.

What, besides I'm thinking sleeving, boring to a specific measurement which I wouldn't have a clue until I asked the machinist, replace the rods would someone have to do in order to build up the block to handle that kind of horsepower, Scott? I'm also thinking getting a stronger axle or an upgraded "stage" would be needed as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calesta

Nah. There are TONS of good reasons to go all motor. But for what most people getting into Hondas want (drag, highway racing, street racing), turbo is the cheapest way to make usable power.

What would make you choose all motor versus turbo, Mike? Which would you prefer and why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by philyphreak2127

dude I have done research and I ain't paying for a b-swap. I already got the full y8 swap with a brand new head gasket, and arp head studs, plus an oil pan with a female welded in. So I have the start of a turbo motor. I just need to continue it.

Continue on my friend. Don't skimp out on anything. Where do you think you will get your head work done and what will you be having done to it?

philyphreak2127 · 03-29-2008, 06:39 PM

chances are I will buy the parts and have a machine shop install the valves, retainers, and cams. I can install the cams but I figure if they will have my head already why not? I won't mess with the valves yet. But I have to find a shop near me that does port and pollishes, and 5 valve jobs because the shop my friend went to won't do either. No flow bench.

Luis998 · 03-29-2008, 06:44 PM

Good call on buying your own parts and having the shop install them. Why not finish it up and do the valves and guides as well?

I would suggest finding a shop that will do EVERYTHING you need, not taking it from shop to shop. That will be both a waste of your money and time. The place I am going with is in South Carolina, I believe, and they will be doing it all for me. When I spoke with the machinist, he did let me know that a three angle valve job would be sufficient for up to 550hp. Blanco explained to me that a five angle valve job, will help things...if I can remember correctly, flow and seal better? Scott, please correct me should you read this and I am wrong, thanks.

Have you priced out your head work yet? I know you don't have a shop yet, but you can go on different sites and get a feel for what it is going to cost you to have everything you want done.

philyphreak2127 · 03-29-2008, 06:48 PM

I will take it to only one shop. Which is why I mentioned I won't take it to that place. Well I haven't really priced it out much but the shop that did his head with out the pnp and valve job charged him 180 to remove and replace everything he had done. But I am guessing mine may be around $300 for everything if I find a shop that can do all that.

Luis998 · 03-29-2008, 06:59 PM

Ouch! All I'm getting charged is $75 to have everything put in. The port and polish, three angle valve job...etc. etc. are all extra, of course. I called a local shop and they told me that the would only charge $50 for hot tanking and taking the darn thing completely apart. $180 sounds like a bit much to me. Make sure you search around before you commit yourself to just one place.

Calesta · 03-29-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis998

What would make you choose all motor versus turbo, Mike? Which would you prefer and why?

That's a LONG discussion... but some quick answers without explanations:

engine response
simplicity
underhood stealth
weight
torque curve tuning
partial throttle characteristics

custompainter · 03-29-2008, 07:53 PM

right on i have to agree i traded my turbo set up for my y8 for a LS swap the b-series is a better starting point more power less money

philyphreak2127 · 03-29-2008, 08:38 PM

I haev helped build a crv/vtec with a t3/t4 turbo kit fully built. that car is quick. but I wanna build the d-series. I also have a friend with an h23 accord that we swapped. In other words my group of friends is building just about every series of motor for honda. I got a d16y8 in my civic, he has the h23 in his accord, the b20 in a hatch and i have an f22b2 that I am gonna swap a vtec head on and build a turbo setup.

Luis998 · 03-30-2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calesta

That's a LONG discussion... but some quick answers without explanations:

engine response
simplicity
underhood stealth
weight
torque curve tuning
partial throttle characteristics

As you found out the other night, Mike, I'm more than able and willing to have long discussions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

All you really need is Vitara pistons, forged rods, sleeves, and everything else that goes with a turbo. It'd be wise to use forged pistons as well, but most people don't.

The five angle valve job is meant to harness every last bit of power from the head. Something that is, quite honestly, a big waste of money if you aren't racing competitively. A renewed three angle will be just fine.

On the flip side, a properly sized turbo will exhibit most of the same characteristics, which is why there are turbocharged F1 engines. I mean, how often are you going to be below 3000rpm while racing?

Read my previous reply about the actual cost of things.

Why wouldn't people use forged pistons? It makes sense. Then again, there's that word that most people at my job don't know the meaning to...sense.

Thank you for I believe, re-explaining the meaning of the five angle valve job.

What if I were racing a scooter? I'm sure I could keep it under 3,000rpm.

N/A b18c1 · 03-30-2008, 07:51 PM

Basicly what they Blanco is trying to say is....the value you put on a d series is just gonna cost as much as a b series engine....just get a b series and go from there...you be more happy with yourself in the long term...

philyphreak2127 · 03-30-2008, 08:21 PM

I have the d-series motor...why would I swap for a B-series? I have said multiple times that I won't bother to swap the motor again. That would be even more money that could be going into the motor and drivetrain I already have. I am going to keep and turbo the D. Besides D-series motors are way cheaper than b-series motors to build. As for Luis...they use viatara pistons because they are about half the cost of forged pistons. But when it comes to it I will go forged. Gives me the ability to turn up the boost when I want.

Luis998 · 03-30-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philyphreak2127

I have the d-series motor...why would I swap for a B-series? I have said multiple times that I won't bother to swap the motor again. That would be even more money that could be going into the motor and drivetrain I already have. I am going to keep and turbo the D. Besides D-series motors are way cheaper than b-series motors to build. As for Luis...they use viatara pistons because they are about half the cost of forged pistons. But when it comes to it I will go forged. Gives me the ability to turn up the boost when I want.

Ah, I didn't know Vitara's weren't forged. lmao! hahahahaha It goes to show you that all I knew about Vitara's was...well, not very much obviously. I hadn't gotten that far in my research. I've been sticking to B-series researching and learning for a while. Thanks for explaining that to me though.

You just brought up a question though, is there truly a downside to using Vitara's then? What kind of risks would one run using them over forged?

I'm glad to hear that you're keeping your D, even though you have said you were all along. haha Some people can't read. That poor guy really wants you to get a B for some odd reason. *shrugs*

Dude, my parents are getting an EG Civic like mine this week, which makes me not want to sell the Z6 I have, but rather wait to see what their car has in it. If it just has a D15B7, I'll have my mechanic yank that one out and put the Z6 in.

Although, it will be an automatic.

Oooo, automatic.

I love them.

Freakin' torque converters. Anywho, I'm done taking up space in your thread for no particular reason, other than to ramble on and on and on and on and on.

Let me know what you end up doing as far as pistons go.

philyphreak2127 · 03-30-2008, 09:47 PM

forged for the win man. thats awesome. my parents own like everything but a honda. toyota, subaru, mercury, dodge. lol but whatever. but yeah that guy really wants me to get one. I may build one in the future but only if I plan on going all motor. but at some point I wanna build an a-series carb'd motor.

philyphreak2127 · 03-31-2008, 02:39 AM

I thought they were stronger than the d-series pistons due to some sort of coating they have. And I priced out the parts for my head and I plan on going with skunk2 parts.

philyphreak2127 · 03-31-2008, 04:20 AM

I think he may have been who I heard that from.

EvoTec1 · 03-31-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awptickes

Blanco is the killer of D-Series N/A dreams.

Anyone notice that after Blanco chimes in, everyone with a D decides to go F/I?

doesnt blanco have a NA z6 though? NA D's can be pretty fun! (if u dont expect b16 whp numbers)

EvoTec1 · 03-31-2008, 01:02 PM

[quote=Luis998;969762] Blanco explained to me that a five angle valve job, will help things...if I can remember correctly, flow and seal better? [quote]

Dont exotic multi angle valve jobs sacrifice durability?

Luis998 · 03-31-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

Vitara pistons are from the Suzuki Vitara, which uses cast pistons like pretty much everyone else. The juxtaposed advantage and disadvantage is that they provide ~8.5:1 compression in a D16. Good if you're a cheap-ass and want 400whp, but that compression makes the engine have a lot less off-boost power. Where, with forged internals, you can run a little bit higher static compression and back the amount of boost off a tad so you get more off-boost power and similar peak power with less boost.

Thank you once again for that explanation, Scott. The MOST I knew about Vitara's, was that they were indeed from a Suzuki. I'm sure you may have heard of FJT on either Honda-Tech or TurboD16. I believe it was he that told me about their custom I-Beams, which will help increase the compression of the Vitara's. Their I-Beams, I know for sure now, are made exclusively for Vitara's. Here's the sale link on TurboD16...Turbo D16 • View topic - FJ Forged rods Oficial Pricing.. H beam / I beams
It's great to know all of that though. Thanks again.

[quote=EvoTec1;970844][quote=Luis998;969762] Blanco explained to me that a five angle valve job, will help things...if I can remember correctly, flow and seal better?

Quote:

Dont exotic multi angle valve jobs sacrifice durability?

Now that is a question for Blanco or Calesta or someone else to answer, as I am still learning about that.

philyphreak2127 · 03-31-2008, 06:17 PM

as you explained before though a 3 angle valve job will be sufficient for my wants. I priced it all out and since I only have the y7 intake manifold I will be going with the intake manifold, 60 mm throttle body, stage 1 turbo cam, tuner series cam gear, retainers, and +.5 oversized valves all skunk2. I am also gonna look into buying an xtd clutch. anyone have any suggestions for a flywheel? I figure I will go through and buy all the parts then pull the motor and install everything at once except the turbo kit. break the motor in than throw the turbo on. What are the benefits of running a turbo cam versus a non turbo cam?

Luis998 · 03-31-2008, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philyphreak2127

as you explained before though a 3 angle valve job will be sufficient for my wants. I priced it all out and since I only have the y7 intake manifold I will be going with the intake manifold, 60 mm throttle body, stage 1 turbo cam, tuner series cam gear, retainers, and +.5 oversized valves all skunk2. I am also gonna look into buying an xtd clutch. anyone have any suggestions for a flywheel? I figure I will go through and buy all the parts then pull the motor and install everything at once except the turbo kit. break the motor in than throw the turbo on. What are the benefits of running a turbo cam versus a non turbo cam?

Wait, you're going with Skunk2 springs and retainers AND you've read my thread? Ay yay yay! Try reading page umm, 2, 3, 4. Somewhere around there you'll see quite a few people recommending staying away from their valve trains because they have failed in quite a few builds. However, their cams are very good.

I'll personally be using their stage 2 turbo cams for my B build, as well as their cam gears.

Oh look at what Blanco just pointed out right above me too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

Totally. I was just replying to what EvoTec1 said.

I highly recommend you use a different valve train. There are numerous instances of Skunk2 valve train failures destroying entire engines.

I got my flywheel from LSD Motorsports - Price Leader in High Performance Auto Parts and Accessories (877.573.6686)

Hey Scott, what factors were figured in when you chose your...I believe 11.5lb. flywheel, versus choosing a lighter, say 9lb. flywheel?

03-29-2008, 05:06 PM	#26
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	this is an autox type of car if anything. I don't really compete. I just take it down to the track we have and do time trials. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-29-2008, 05:23 PM	#28
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	Cause I want the power. lol I drive those tracks for fun. I wanna be able to take it down the strip and put up decent numbers too. But I am really not looking for too much honestly. I would be happy with 200 whp. Pushing 300 something would be a drag car only. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-29-2008, 05:54 PM	#30
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	dude I have done research and I ain't paying for a b-swap. I already got the full y8 swap with a brand new head gasket, and arp head studs, plus an oil pan with a female welded in. So I have the start of a turbo motor. I just need to continue it. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-29-2008, 06:39 PM	#32
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	chances are I will buy the parts and have a machine shop install the valves, retainers, and cams. I can install the cams but I figure if they will have my head already why not? I won't mess with the valves yet. But I have to find a shop near me that does port and pollishes, and 5 valve jobs because the shop my friend went to won't do either. No flow bench. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-29-2008, 06:48 PM	#34
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	I will take it to only one shop. Which is why I mentioned I won't take it to that place. Well I haven't really priced it out much but the shop that did his head with out the pnp and valve job charged him 180 to remove and replace everything he had done. But I am guessing mine may be around $300 for everything if I find a shop that can do all that. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318


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03-29-2008, 05:19 PM	#27
dtob Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 578 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 11	If that's what you are using the car for then why build an engine with soo much power?? All you would do is spin your tires around the whole track. You'd be better off with a stock or mildly built NA B16 or B18C.

03-29-2008, 05:30 PM	#29
dtob Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 578 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 11	Well I'm not going to tell you what to build. Just do some research on different builds then figure out what you want.

03-29-2008, 07:53 PM	#37
custompainter drive it like U stole it Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: central CT Age: 30 Posts: 590 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 99 dx coupe y8, 94 ex coupe z6, 89 teg zc, Rep Power: 11	right on i have to agree i traded my turbo set up for my y8 for a LS swap the b-series is a better starting point more power less money __________________ http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2...0011rl2.th.jpg

03-29-2008, 08:38 PM	#38
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	I haev helped build a crv/vtec with a t3/t4 turbo kit fully built. that car is quick. but I wanna build the d-series. I also have a friend with an h23 accord that we swapped. In other words my group of friends is building just about every series of motor for honda. I got a d16y8 in my civic, he has the h23 in his accord, the b20 in a hatch and i have an f22b2 that I am gonna swap a vtec head on and build a turbo setup. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-30-2008, 07:51 PM	#40
N/A b18c1 Mysterious Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Mid-Coast Age: 21 Posts: 182 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 93 Eg Si Rep Power: 6	Basicly what they Blanco is trying to say is....the value you put on a d series is just gonna cost as much as a b series engine....just get a b series and go from there...you be more happy with yourself in the long term...

03-30-2008, 08:21 PM	#41
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	I have the d-series motor...why would I swap for a B-series? I have said multiple times that I won't bother to swap the motor again. That would be even more money that could be going into the motor and drivetrain I already have. I am going to keep and turbo the D. Besides D-series motors are way cheaper than b-series motors to build. As for Luis...they use viatara pistons because they are about half the cost of forged pistons. But when it comes to it I will go forged. Gives me the ability to turn up the boost when I want. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-30-2008, 09:47 PM	#43
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	forged for the win man. thats awesome. my parents own like everything but a honda. toyota, subaru, mercury, dodge. lol but whatever. but yeah that guy really wants me to get one. I may build one in the future but only if I plan on going all motor. but at some point I wanna build an a-series carb'd motor. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-31-2008, 02:39 AM	#44
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	I thought they were stronger than the d-series pistons due to some sort of coating they have. And I priced out the parts for my head and I plan on going with skunk2 parts. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-31-2008, 04:20 AM	#45
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	I think he may have been who I heard that from. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-31-2008, 01:02 PM	#47
EvoTec1 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 96 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: '66 olds 442 clone Rep Power: 6	[quote=Luis998;969762] Blanco explained to me that a five angle valve job, will help things...if I can remember correctly, flow and seal better? [quote] Dont exotic multi angle valve jobs sacrifice durability?

03-31-2008, 06:17 PM	#49
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	as you explained before though a 3 angle valve job will be sufficient for my wants. I priced it all out and since I only have the y7 intake manifold I will be going with the intake manifold, 60 mm throttle body, stage 1 turbo cam, tuner series cam gear, retainers, and +.5 oversized valves all skunk2. I am also gonna look into buying an xtd clutch. anyone have any suggestions for a flywheel? I figure I will go through and buy all the parts then pull the motor and install everything at once except the turbo kit. break the motor in than throw the turbo on. What are the benefits of running a turbo cam versus a non turbo cam? __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

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