jrichy

Hi guys Im new to this site... I have a a 93 eg hatch... i am looking for an N/A build that will be reliable but make at least 300whp... im not to worried about the cost because im not gonna rush it... at first i was looking at a b18c1 motor, but seeing as how expensive and common they are i kept searching... i then considered a crvtec swap, but im not sure if its worht it... then i considered an h22a motor swap, but i dont know the power specifications of an N/A build on that motor, i dont know much about the h series at all... i then read a forum about a guy who did an h23 frankenstien motor with an N/A setup, but lack of clarification on the h23 block being weak or not was an issue... seeing at how common the b18c1 is id rather not go that route, also i heard that you can make more power with an h series rather than a b series, dont know if thats true... my questions are (1.)Is goin the h series route worth it with an N/A setup? (2.)is the h23 frankenstien motor a good build to use for N/A? (3.)is the h23 block known for being weak? (4.)is the crvtec swap a good build to use for N/A? (5.)and finally will any of these setups give me 300+ whp? i welcome all input... it will be greatly appreciated becauuse i have no idea which way to go... thanks...

TrioCaen

You want a RELIABLE 300 hp inline-4 N/A motor? You could probably do that...with a lot of money. Extreme cams, better pistons, engine balancing, super ECU tuning... but since your asking about the H series. They are great for torque, good stock hp, vtec is always nice, but they aren't the most tunable engines, relatively anyway, BUT, you can get a good amount of power for less money than a B series. There are more parts for a B series, and the B series is about 60-70 lbs lighter. Another piece of information, the H-series engines have crappy cylinder walls, and you have to really work to get bolt-on parts into it, where as the B-series is much easier to work with, as I have said already. H- is cheaper, but B is easier. I guess you'd have to decide that for yourself.

TrioCaen

decide what you want for yourself that is.

jrichy

If i did go h series i would prolly use the h22a from the prelude SiR, 200hp stock and im sure reaching 300whp on N/A wouldnt be that difficult... if i went b series, id most likely use the b18c1 or a b20... i can get a b20 for rather cheap, but im not sure if i can make 300+whp with a b series running an N/A setup...

RoughKnight

you can but its expensive...
b20 is a bad platform IMO, but thats just me.

mdpsEG

300hp NA honda and money is not an issue...

k series for sure. there are a bunch of 2.4 liter k series beasts around, most are not quite 300whp, but its possible.

reikoshea

Im going to have to agree. with the above.

With regards to the potential of the H22 you're making too many assumptions about the potential of that engine. It is already well tuned and there is not a helluva a lot of room for improvement. It's going to take boring out the H22, stroking it, raising the compression to about 11.5:1 and a cam that will make the car completely unstreetable to get to 300hp. The k24 is a similar issue with regards to the available wiggle room for improvement, but it is a much more feasible idea.

H22's are my baby and i wish it was easy to get to 300HP with one, but in this case it's a LOT more difficult than you realize. I doubt the majority of tuners you find will have ever seen anything like that.

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Fernpatch

I know the guys at Endyn built a number of N/A crvtec engines that were 300-315 hp at the crank. It can be done but at a tremendous cost. Every part in the engine was custom made or custom machined. From what I have seen in other peoples cars I would recommend going forced induction to reach 300+ to the wheels. You can make that happen allot easier with a turbo. Probably allot cheaper as well. Have you ever seen how ridiculously fast a 300whp civic is?

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What I write is my own opinion based on what I have done. Your own results may vary...

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

efhondakid

Call Bisi, tell him you what you want, then send him a blank check.

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jrichy

thanks for the info guys, i suppose i'll go with a b18... the reason im wanting to run N/A is because i hear its more reliable for a daily driver vs turbo... a k series i do agree is the best way to go but id be shelling out alot of money just for the engine itself, then itd take me a while before i would be able to spend the money to go the N/A route on it... although money isnt really the issue i dont wanna be spending more than is worth it... i was interested in the h series because hardly ne1 around here has a h swapped into thier eg hatch... itd definatly be different, but thats out now... i heard that swapping an h22 into an eg u will have to sacrifice a/c (not a big deal) and power steering cuz the belts wont fit... is that true? also i wanted to stand out, nearly every1 down here that has a civic swaps a b series into it, i understand, it is the best swap for the money... and mods are widely available for it... which is reason enough to make up my mind that a b18 will be the motor of choice... i do realize running 300whp N/A on an engine will require building it up quite a bit, i would go turbo except that ive heard and seen alot of problems, such as my friend has a 92 civic coupe and he swapped a b16 with a garrett t25bb turbo running 15psi on stock internals, and he had problems with his turbo all the time, and is now currently in the market for a new one suppossedly... do turbos really have alot of problems, or is it all about the installation and tuning??? if i could do a reliable turbo build on a b18 making 300+whp and not have to worry about such problems im all for it... any more info would be greatly appreciated... thanks

Type R Haitian

Would a GSR block with a Type r head (fully built head) give you more power than a B series?

mdpsEG

umm the gsr (b18c1) and the type r (b18c5) motor are both b series lol


in my opinion if you are doing a balls to the wall all motor build buying a type r head is a waste since you are giong to replace everything in it anyways..... just get a gsr or b16 head and put all race components in it and get a p&p and a valve job.

efhondakid

A regular B16 head and a c5 head come from the same casting, the Type R just gets a factory P&P and much more aggresive cams.

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serrilion

Here is my 2 Cents.... N/A - 300 HP is going to COST ALOT OF cash, a B18 with a simple 2k worth of turbo mods, going to be alot closer 2 300HP and more reliable in my opion... thats just me

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reikoshea

i dont know about the reliability claim, but it is going to be much cheaper.

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serrilion

There is a saying

A cheap tune aint grate, a great tune aint cheap.... So i'd rather spend 5k on a good tune / turbo set up, then 5-8k on a N/A set up that could or could not preduce the amount of HP i wantted, im just saying a turbo in my opion is why more reliable when tuned right

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yea so a guy told me, "I bet I get laid twice as much as you," so I said, "Two times zero is still equal to zero," totally awesome.

Well, a penny saved is worth two in the bush, isn't it?
And don't cross the road if you can't get out of the kitchen.

reikoshea

then by the same logic a good N/A tune is just as reliable

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jrichy

I did say a b18 was the way I was gonna go, but I'm getting interested in the J series V6 swap... what do you guys think??? Run an N/A setup on that and Im sure to fly right?

Fernpatch

Honestly for the money and effort involved you could build a nasty b18 turbo setup and walk away from any j series engine. One of the mods(Matts96HB) on the site has a built b18 turbo making ~320hp at the wheels in I think an EK chassis civic. I would talk to him about going that route. I don't know what he has spent on it but from what I have heard about it is one nasty little civic. IMO when you are looking for 160+ hp per liter of displacement reliability is something that can become relative. Will it be reliable enough to go 300k miles without a rebuild? not likely. will it go many years of driving? most likely. Hell, I met a guy who built a d16a6 in a 90 si hatch that was rocking ~400hp and drove it daily for 3 years and than sold it. mind you it was a fully built motor with a good size turbo and a great tune but it was just fine for commuting.

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What I write is my own opinion based on what I have done. Your own results may vary...

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

jrichy

thanks for the info, however every tuned civic, del sol, and crx that I have ever ran into has had either a b or k series swap with a turbo setup, b series turbo is just way to common, granted that b series do have the best aftermarket support and availability... but I'd rather not make my car into another clone, regardless of how much power I can make with it... I want something that is rare, which is why I was going for the h22 running N/A... but because the h series has weak cylinder walls it can't handle an N/A build without being sleeved... so I was going to get a b18c1 and do an N/A build on it, but then I heard about the j V6 swap coming with 200+hp and a very strong block, able to handle high compression on stock internals... I've already made up my mind that I'm not going the turbo route, so running N/A... what would be better???

Fernpatch

I don't think anyone of those will be able to make the power you want n/a. Maybe if you took the v6 and could find someone to sleeve it, bore and stroke it, have custom cams ground, have the heads fully built. go for 12:1 plus compression, and custom intake pipe, manifold, and throttle body, and a good set of custom headers and exhaust. than you could get the 300+ n/a you want. Another option If you want a unique N/A setup and money is not a problem talk to bisimoto about a F22Ax build for your car. I believe he has managed to extract ~350-400hp from a race built f22 sohc. If you don't have that kind of coin another way to be different would be a g23 swap or building a d series. I don't have hard numbers but it would be interesting to see a d16a6 block, d16z6 head, fully built with forged internals. cam, valves, springs. race port and chamber work. Bisimoto header, ITB's, Full barrier coating in the motor and maybe a little nitrous for good measure. I would think 200hp could be possible all motor. 300+ with enough nitrous. It is really hard to be different with a civic, There are so many on the road with so many crazy swaps (some good, some bad) that is almost impossible to be truly unique with anything you do unless it is a one off custom build using all custom fabricated parts.

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What I write is my own opinion based on what I have done. Your own results may vary...

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

jrichy

lol... ya I know, a unique civic is hard to come by... My friends brother however did something really unique... he swapped one of those rotary engines from an rx7 into his civic... took him about 3 months working on it, but its in and it runs, and it is pretty unique...

Fernpatch

yeah... I was thinking about putting a 13b in my old hatch about three years ago. I sat down and priced everything out... I think I made the smart move and bought a toolbox instead. If I could have my old 85 prelude back I would love to try and convert it to rwd using the guts from an s2k. I think that would be sick.

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What I write is my own opinion based on what I have done. Your own results may vary...

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous