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89' Project Civic · 05-07-2009, 12:11 AM

I'm wondering if I should use ACL or OEM main bearings on my Stock D16a6 rebuild. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

red91efhatch · 05-10-2009, 08:45 PM

OEM bearings are good, ACL are also good, lot's of people use ACL race bearings when rebuilding. I used standard ACL bearings on all my builds and they've done just fine in all cases.

89' Project Civic · 05-10-2009, 08:50 PM

Are ACL cheaper?

efhondakid · 05-10-2009, 09:08 PM

Use OEM! Honda uses a nitrate coating on the crank and bearing surfaces, hopefully you didnt have the crank turned. Do I have to get out my "ACL carnage" pics?

89' Project Civic · 05-10-2009, 09:21 PM

What do you mean by "crank turned"?. No, I already saw them which inspired me to post up this thread to see other people's experiences, but I will take your advice considering your experience wasn't so good. I will get the OEM bearings but they cost $136 plus taxes for just the rod bearings. That isn't including main bearings!.

K2e2vin · 05-10-2009, 10:53 PM

Get ACL, they're all "Green"-spec. Install them, check all clearances; disassemble, and replace bearings that are out of spec with Honda bearing. Way cheaper to go this route and ACL bearings work just fine.

red91efhatch · 05-11-2009, 07:21 PM

ACL FTW! listen to the guy who rebuilds Honda Engines on a weekly basis with 0 that's right Zero customer bring backs this far.

efhondakid · 05-11-2009, 08:41 PM

Well I dont like ACLs.

K2e2vin · 05-11-2009, 09:10 PM

As stated before, it's all in the clearance. You can't just throw in ACL's and call it a day; you have to check the clearances. It's the oil that keeps the rod from touching the bearing/journal.

89' Project Civic · 05-11-2009, 10:42 PM

I went to drop my stuff off at the machine shop, and I got talking with my machinist. He asked me if I was still thinking OEM, then suggested some Clevite bearings for my build. He knows his shit obviously so I told him to go ahead and order me some. I will take your suggestions and check for clearance issues and if any are out of spec replace with OEM. Is mixing bearings an alright thing to do?. Thanks for the input so far, guys!.

K2e2vin · 05-11-2009, 10:58 PM

Clevite makes very nice bearings; but didn't know they had anything for the SOHC D-series.

Yes, it is perfectly OK to mix bearings; it's just imperative that you have the correct clearance. Clearance is everything when it comes to the lubrication system.

89' Project Civic · 05-11-2009, 11:01 PM

That is really re-assuring to know they are good quality bearings. Although I am doing a stock rebuild I still want the engine to goto 400-500k, but by then I will have my B20

, I hope:P.

K2e2vin · 05-11-2009, 11:04 PM

As long as you maintain your car(not just oil changes, but replacing "wear" parts for given intervals), it'll definitely be able to reach your goals. Some guy hit like 1200000 miles(yes, 1.2 million) on his 92-95 Civic coupe; and it was running perfectly fine when he sold it.

Calesta · 05-12-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2e2vin

Clevite makes very nice bearings; but didn't know they had anything for the SOHC D-series.

I usually hear Clevite in association with domestic engines.

I've always used OEM bearings on my builds, but I've considered using ACLs for my D series. I had to have my clearances perfect, so I always had my stuff put together with nothing but Honda bearings. OEM has the widest selection. Most of the time though, the ACLs will give you clearances within spec without having to get too many replacement pieces. If you want to be a dork and have all your clearances match to the .0001, then you'll have to go OEM.

89' Project Civic · 05-12-2009, 12:55 AM

Haha, I will be willing to be that dork because I want it done right the first time:P. I don't know if he knows that the company even carries them for the D-Series engine. He has done work to a lot of motors in his time I'm sure. When I was there I saw a block with only 3cylinders. Is that normal?.

K2e2vin · 05-12-2009, 02:37 AM

Probably Geo Metro engine or something.

I don't think the Plastiguages are thick enough to measure without a bearing; so you'd still need ACLs or something to work from.

Calesta · 05-13-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89' Project Civic

Haha, I will be willing to be that dork because I want it done right the first time:P. I don't know if he knows that the company even carries them for the D-Series engine. He has done work to a lot of motors in his time I'm sure. When I was there I saw a block with only 3cylinders. Is that normal?.

It's not a question of doing it right- the ACLs will still be "right", but the Honda OEMs just enable to you to be an even higher degree of "right" if you're willing to spend the cash to keep buying bearings until you get the perfect fit. ACL built engines last just as long as OEM bearing engines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2e2vin

Probably Geo Metro engine or something.

I don't think the Plastiguages are thick enough to measure without a bearing; so you'd still need ACLs or something to work from.

Geo Metro, Suzuki Swift, Honda Insight, smart fortwo, any number of oddball European cars or Japanese kei cars (Saab Sonnet I think)- loads of 3 cylinder engines out there. I saw a nice inline-3 in a monster build once in Houston- it was an 18 liter engine.

You definitely need the bearings to Platigage the engine.

89' Project Civic · 05-13-2009, 10:11 PM

Yeah, that's for sure. Another question though, when I get this block back will I have to buy my own measuring tools to do the job?. The machinist says he is going to measure everything and telling from his tone of voice and what he was saying, I think he will have all the measurements done for me to just torque/plastiguage everything to specs. and get it going. Is this presumption correct or do I still need the measuring tools?.

Calesta · 05-13-2009, 10:24 PM

That's between you and how much you trust your machinist.

89' Project Civic · 05-13-2009, 11:38 PM

Thanks for clearifying that. I trust him a lot due to his reputation.

Calesta · 05-13-2009, 11:40 PM

CAFROG · 05-14-2009, 12:19 PM

I agree with the part about the crank.....you can ONLY micro-polish them at best....no grinding b/c Honda puts a protective heat coating on the crank.

Bearing can be considered bearing but OEM makes many different sizes based on colors

They cost more but tahts what we did when I helped my friend re-build his b18a

I agree....check with the plastic-gauge stuff and take your time.

Lots of Crappy torque wrenches out there...so don't go cheap on that tool

I have a craftsman and its a POS

89' Project Civic · 05-14-2009, 01:14 PM

Really?, I just got off the phone with him and he said he already micro-polished my crank and it looks like he might need to machine it :s. I also have a Craftsman and I have never tested it, so should I go with a Snap-On or something?. I'm going into the Motive Power Technician trade and will use it many times so it wouldn't be a waste of money it's just the fact that I paid soo much for this block to be at the machine shop that I can't afford to buy any tools, lol. Do you guys think that $650-$700 is expensive for the following machine shop procedures on a stock block:
-cylinders honed
-hot-tanking
-rebuild kit (D16a6 pistons and rings)
-gasket set for D16a6 bottom end
-micro-polishing
-deck resurfacing
*and*
-inspection of the block

Magana559 · 05-14-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89' Project Civic

Really?, I just got off the phone with him and he said he already micro-polished my crank and it looks like he might need to machine it :s. I also have a Craftsman and I have never tested it, so should I go with a Snap-On or something?. I'm going into the Motive Power Technician trade and will use it many times so it wouldn't be a waste of money it's just the fact that I paid soo much for this block to be at the machine shop that I can't afford to buy any tools, lol. Do you guys think that $650-$700 is expensive for the following machine shop procedures on a stock block:
-cylinders honed
-hot-tanking
-rebuild kit (D16a6 pistons and rings)
-gasket set for D16a6 bottom end
-micro-polishing
-deck resurfacing
*and*
-inspection of the block

thats would be normal of a shop to charge you.

but why pay $700 on a stock d series engine? could have bought your b20 with that, or another d series off craigslist.

K2e2vin · 05-14-2009, 04:31 PM

I've never heard of a coating on the crankshaft. I'm not sure about later cranks but people have off-set ground them.

05-07-2009, 12:11 AM	#1
89' Project Civic d16a6/d16y8 "mini-me" Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 725 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Civic Si Rep Power: 22	ACL or OEM bearings for D16a6? I'm wondering if I should use ACL or OEM main bearings on my Stock D16a6 rebuild. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

05-10-2009, 09:08 PM	#4
efhondakid My name is Byron. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Akron-Canton, Ohio Age: 20 Posts: 5,376 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 89' DX Hatch w/B16 Rep Power: 215	Use OEM! Honda uses a nitrate coating on the crank and bearing surfaces, hopefully you didnt have the crank turned. Do I have to get out my "ACL carnage" pics? __________________ ^ (dont listen) Dont PM me with tech questions. I will not answer them. There is a hidden message here. *"Motor swaps, turbo kit installs, diagnostics, minor repairs, minor fab and bodywork. Located in Akron-Canton area PM me for more details."* "In the dice game of life who gets the last roll?"

05-10-2009, 10:53 PM	#6
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,313 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	Get ACL, they're all "Green"-spec. Install them, check all clearances; disassemble, and replace bearings that are out of spec with Honda bearing. Way cheaper to go this route and ACL bearings work just fine. __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

05-11-2009, 08:41 PM	#8
efhondakid My name is Byron. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Akron-Canton, Ohio Age: 20 Posts: 5,376 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 89' DX Hatch w/B16 Rep Power: 215	Well I dont like ACLs. __________________ ^ (dont listen) Dont PM me with tech questions. I will not answer them. There is a hidden message here. *"Motor swaps, turbo kit installs, diagnostics, minor repairs, minor fab and bodywork. Located in Akron-Canton area PM me for more details."* "In the dice game of life who gets the last roll?"

05-11-2009, 09:10 PM	#9
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,313 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	As stated before, it's all in the clearance. You can't just throw in ACL's and call it a day; you have to check the clearances. It's the oil that keeps the rod from touching the bearing/journal. __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006


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05-10-2009, 08:45 PM	#2
red91efhatch Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Albuquerque Age: 28 Posts: 217 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 91 ef B18 swap w/AC! Rep Power: 5	OEM bearings are good, ACL are also good, lot's of people use ACL race bearings when rebuilding. I used standard ACL bearings on all my builds and they've done just fine in all cases.

05-10-2009, 08:50 PM	#3
89' Project Civic d16a6/d16y8 "mini-me" Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 725 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Civic Si Rep Power: 22	Are ACL cheaper?

05-10-2009, 09:21 PM	#5
89' Project Civic d16a6/d16y8 "mini-me" Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 725 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Civic Si Rep Power: 22	What do you mean by "crank turned"?. No, I already saw them which inspired me to post up this thread to see other people's experiences, but I will take your advice considering your experience wasn't so good. I will get the OEM bearings but they cost $136 plus taxes for just the rod bearings. That isn't including main bearings!.

05-11-2009, 07:21 PM	#7
red91efhatch Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Albuquerque Age: 28 Posts: 217 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 91 ef B18 swap w/AC! Rep Power: 5	ACL FTW! listen to the guy who rebuilds Honda Engines on a weekly basis with 0 that's right Zero customer bring backs this far.

05-11-2009, 10:42 PM	#10
89' Project Civic d16a6/d16y8 "mini-me" Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 725 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Civic Si Rep Power: 22	I went to drop my stuff off at the machine shop, and I got talking with my machinist. He asked me if I was still thinking OEM, then suggested some Clevite bearings for my build. He knows his shit obviously so I told him to go ahead and order me some. I will take your suggestions and check for clearance issues and if any are out of spec replace with OEM. Is mixing bearings an alright thing to do?. Thanks for the input so far, guys!.

05-11-2009, 10:58 PM	#11
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,313 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	Clevite makes very nice bearings; but didn't know they had anything for the SOHC D-series. Yes, it is perfectly OK to mix bearings; it's just imperative that you have the correct clearance. Clearance is everything when it comes to the lubrication system. __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006 Last edited by K2e2vin; 05-11-2009 at 11:00 PM.

05-11-2009, 11:01 PM	#12
89' Project Civic d16a6/d16y8 "mini-me" Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 725 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Civic Si Rep Power: 22	That is really re-assuring to know they are good quality bearings. Although I am doing a stock rebuild I still want the engine to goto 400-500k, but by then I will have my B20, I hope:P.

05-11-2009, 11:04 PM	#13
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,313 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	As long as you maintain your car(not just oil changes, but replacing "wear" parts for given intervals), it'll definitely be able to reach your goals. Some guy hit like 1200000 miles(yes, 1.2 million) on his 92-95 Civic coupe; and it was running perfectly fine when he sold it. __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

05-12-2009, 12:55 AM	#15
89' Project Civic d16a6/d16y8 "mini-me" Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 725 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Civic Si Rep Power: 22	Haha, I will be willing to be that dork because I want it done right the first time:P. I don't know if he knows that the company even carries them for the D-Series engine. He has done work to a lot of motors in his time I'm sure. When I was there I saw a block with only 3cylinders. Is that normal?.

05-13-2009, 11:40 PM	#21
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,451 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 288	__________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

05-12-2009, 02:37 AM	#16
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,313 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	Probably Geo Metro engine or something. I don't think the Plastiguages are thick enough to measure without a bearing; so you'd still need ACLs or something to work from. __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

05-13-2009, 10:11 PM	#18
89' Project Civic d16a6/d16y8 "mini-me" Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 725 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Civic Si Rep Power: 22	Yeah, that's for sure. Another question though, when I get this block back will I have to buy my own measuring tools to do the job?. The machinist says he is going to measure everything and telling from his tone of voice and what he was saying, I think he will have all the measurements done for me to just torque/plastiguage everything to specs. and get it going. Is this presumption correct or do I still need the measuring tools?.

05-13-2009, 10:24 PM	#19
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,451 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 288	That's between you and how much you trust your machinist. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

05-13-2009, 11:38 PM	#20
89' Project Civic d16a6/d16y8 "mini-me" Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 725 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Civic Si Rep Power: 22	Thanks for clearifying that. I trust him a lot due to his reputation.

05-14-2009, 12:19 PM	#22
CAFROG Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NOR-CAL Age: 33 Posts: 976 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: '92 Hatch si w/B16 (wannabe EG6) Rep Power: 26	I agree with the part about the crank.....you can ONLY micro-polish them at best....no grinding b/c Honda puts a protective heat coating on the crank. Bearing can be considered bearing but OEM makes many different sizes based on colors They cost more but tahts what we did when I helped my friend re-build his b18a I agree....check with the plastic-gauge stuff and take your time. Lots of Crappy torque wrenches out there...so don't go cheap on that tool I have a craftsman and its a POS

05-14-2009, 01:14 PM	#23
89' Project Civic d16a6/d16y8 "mini-me" Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Posts: 725 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Honda Civic Si Rep Power: 22	Really?, I just got off the phone with him and he said he already micro-polished my crank and it looks like he might need to machine it :s. I also have a Craftsman and I have never tested it, so should I go with a Snap-On or something?. I'm going into the Motive Power Technician trade and will use it many times so it wouldn't be a waste of money it's just the fact that I paid soo much for this block to be at the machine shop that I can't afford to buy any tools, lol. Do you guys think that $650-$700 is expensive for the following machine shop procedures on a stock block: -cylinders honed -hot-tanking -rebuild kit (D16a6 pistons and rings) -gasket set for D16a6 bottom end -micro-polishing -deck resurfacing and -inspection of the block

05-14-2009, 04:31 PM	#25
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,313 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	I've never heard of a coating on the crankshaft. I'm not sure about later cranks but people have off-set ground them. __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

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ACL or OEM bearings for D16a6?