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thetoymaker · 01-16-2003, 03:50 PM

Hi all,
New here, and I have a few questions.
All about the ITR Head
and CRVTEC

I read that the p73 head is found on the itr and it is ported and polished by honda.
I can't find any real tech sheets on just the head specifacations.
There are some little differences like double-springs on the vtec valve lifters in the head.
It seems physically bigger than the gsr head (or is it just the price difference?)
What are the primary performance #'s?
And I have seen everyone doing the crvtec thing with b20b/b16a combos, but what would you have if you went with a b20z/b18c5 hybrid?
I mean go with the type-r cams and as much type-r stuff as possible (pumps/pulleys), when I total the displacement I get like... 2.19L?
I haven't found too much on people that have done this hybrid swap anywhere on the internet.
What kind of horsepower would I be looking at If I did this?
Would it be worth it? costs for this conversion seem the highest of all the swaps, but- more $$= more HP/ass-kicking right?
I have seen b20b/b16a combos putting out 240+HP N/A at shows listed on the web, would the b20z/b18c5 hybrid put out more than that??
Some of the parts listed for the GSR were used by honda for the CRV, like the fuel pump......
What does true LSD (limited slip differential) do for you? Geared, not clutch(s) u know the $1300-3000 types.

ever have one of those questions you couldn't answer?

2 litre EG · 01-16-2003, 04:05 PM

i dont know for a fact if it is port polished by Honda but when you port polish a head alot of it has to do with de-burring a head... for example wheh i did my 2 litre Ls VTEC i used the stock type-r head and it didnt breathe for shi%.

if you really have your heart set on a type-r head then i have one for sale, only thing missing is the VTEC rocker arms, which you can get off any b16 and replace with ease... its a bare head, no cams etc etc etc

i believe that when people do their CR/VTEC or LS/VTEC set ups then they do it to conserve moeny, cause there isn't much of a difference in the two... the GSR on the other hand is already closed chamber [i think?] so you wont have to get that done if you were to use a GSR head...

as for horsepower there is no way for us to guess your output... the guy that put out 240 to the wheel was a guy named Marouj aka Pacman... he got his work done by Atomic Performance [now known as Import Builders]... Jeff Schaffer over there was the guy who did the tuning... he is well renowned for his tuning capabilities of producing the most wheel horsepower from a daily driven car... Pacman also holds the current record for daily driven all motor car 11.86@118mph [mph unsure]

as for other questions i really dont know the answer or where to even begin.... maybe someone else on the board who knows more about it can help you out...

B16 · 01-16-2003, 04:09 PM

they do a mild port polish on the intake side only. it does come with dual springs and retainers that are slightly stiffer than other b series springs (i know the b16 head has only single springs on the exhaust side, but dual on the intake) what are your plans for this motor? are you going to be doing a lot of head work anyways? if so, find the cheapest head you can, get it ported polished, the works, and you'll end up with something better than a type r head for not that much more.

thetoymaker · 01-16-2003, 07:20 PM

I read on another post that the stupid expensive aluminum crank pully I put on will destroy my engine.
I wish that was printed on the box it came in.

Hindsight... yeah I know but i'm tired of spending money on the wrong stuff.
As for the right stuff, that's why i'm here. to find out more.

If you have built one of these CRVTEC's before I could use any advice you could give.

thanks

B16 · 01-16-2003, 07:46 PM

i know how you feel about wasting money, i've done it myself. its good that you are doing the research before you dive into it, always smart to do. i have not built a crvtec myself, but i do have some genral knowledge. give us an estimate of your budget, what you want out of this motor? this helps in determining the best avenues to go. as far as your crank pulley goes, get it balanced and you should be ok (there are machinists who can balance them)

thetoymaker · 01-16-2003, 08:22 PM

aha a machine shop eh?
I will have to do that. What about the holes u find in the stock crank pulley? Are those not the dampening device in the harmonic balancer?
Hmmmm I would have to think that the crankshaft harmonics are eliminated by the holes, cuz bells don't have holes.

Calesta · 01-17-2003, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thetoymaker@Jan 16 2003, 02:55 PM
Hi all,
New here, and I have a few questions.
All about the ITR Head
and CRVTEC

I read that the p73 head is found on the itr and it is ported and polished by honda.
I can't find any real tech sheets on just the head specifacations.
There are some little differences like double-springs on the vtec valve lifters in the head.
It seems physically bigger than the gsr head (or is it just the price difference?)
What are the primary performance #'s?
And I have seen everyone doing the crvtec thing with b20b/b16a combos, but what would you have if you went with a b20z/b18c5 hybrid?
I mean go with the type-r cams and as much type-r stuff as possible (pumps/pulleys), when I total the displacement I get like... 2.19L?
I haven't found too much on people that have done this hybrid swap anywhere on the internet.
What kind of horsepower would I be looking at If I did this?
Would it be worth it? costs for this conversion seem the highest of all the swaps, but- more $$= more HP/ass-kicking right?
I have seen b20b/b16a combos putting out 240+HP N/A at shows listed on the web, would the b20z/b18c5 hybrid put out more than that??
Some of the parts listed for the GSR were used by honda for the CRV, like the fuel pump......
What does true LSD (limited slip differential) do for you? Geared, not clutch(s) u know the $1300-3000 types.

ever have one of those questions you couldn't answer?

P&P on the ITR head is really mild

Performance numbers are not available because it all depends on how you build it

B20/B16A will only be a little less powerful than B20/B18C5 combo

Displacement with B20/B18C5 will still be right at 2.0L, not 2.19L.

Click on the link in my sig

B20/B18C5 with stock pistons... I'm going to guess under 200whp (or right at 200whp) with good tuning, higher compression pistons will get you more power

Worth it- not really... I would spend the money modding another head, not buying an ITR head. You'll get more power that way. The 240+whp B20/VTEC setups you're seeing are running much more aggressive head setups than the ITR. You'll need to swap out all the head components to hit that power figure, and have a nice port and polish job done on it too. My target is 250whp with my B20/VTEC, and I think I can get there too.

LSD enables all your power to get to the ground, or at least more than your stock open differential. The LSD sends power to the wheel that has the most traction, not the least like an open diff does. With an LSD you'll turn better and launch better. I could explain more, but that's the basic gist of it. The Honda LSD is just fine for a NA B20/VTEC. If you want to get crazy with boost or nitrous, a Quaiffe LSD might be a better choice.

2 litre EG · 01-17-2003, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Jan 17 2003, 02:39 AM
The 240+whp B20/VTEC setups you're seeing are running much more aggressive head setups than the ITR. You'll need to swap out all the head components to hit that power figure, and have a nice port and polish job done on it too. My target is 250whp with my B20/VTEC, and I think I can get there too.

yeah that guy Marouj got to 240+whp spending well over 15,000 in mods on that motor... to give you an idea of what his set up was it was something like what jeff schaffer calls "The Dominator Package..." its his stage 3 all motor set up with ITBs [which are the shiet!], Hondata [also the shiet!] Jun Stage 3 Cams and whole valve train...

as soon as i get my tuning done then i'll try to get my Dyno Sheet Scanned or something... im not hoping for anything too crazy, maybe 230 to the ground... at least thats what im hoping for once i get the larger injectors and everything tuned in... i just got done puting on my new head this evening also.... damn im tired... :P

Calesta · 01-18-2003, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2 litre EG@Jan 17 2003, 04:45 AM
yeah that guy Marouj got to 240+whp spending well over 15,000 in mods on that motor... to give you an idea of what his set up was it was something like what jeff schaffer calls "The Dominator Package..." its his stage 3 all motor set up with ITBs [which are the shiet!], Hondata [also the shiet!] Jun Stage 3 Cams and whole valve train...

I really don't think you need to spend anywhere near $15k to get 240whp out of a B20/VTEC... and you really don't need ITB either. I'm convinced that you ought to be able to make 240whp out of a B20/VTEC for well under $10k on the engine all motor.

2 litre EG · 01-18-2003, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Jan 18 2003, 03:21 AM
I really don't think you need to spend anywhere near $15k to get 240whp out of a B20/VTEC... and you really don't need ITB either. I'm convinced that you ought to be able to make 240whp out of a B20/VTEC for well under $10k on the engine all motor.

im just sayin thats how much he spent... i know him personally and tha guy has no cares when it comes to spending money... yeah its true you prolly dont need ITBs and yes you can spend under 10,000 in mods to achieve 240 and maybe more... but the thing is i haven't met anyone yet who has been able to do it besides Bisi in his 1.5L single Cam, and Taren The Wesyder Ryder from RS... to be honest, thats what im shooting for is about 245 to the wheels, this next dyno tuning session i'll be having in about a week or two, i'm hoping for about 230 to the ground with my current set up, then february 22 and 23 IF i get my expected output numbers then i'll be going for the World's Fastest Daily Driven ;x

it's a long shot for me but imma try anyways lol

pissedoffsol · 01-19-2003, 04:24 AM

well, i learned something in this thread. Jeff from atomic is Jeff from IB. well i'll be =)

lol

but seriously. there's some good info in this thread, and also the one in our FAQ forum on cr/vtec setups. read that as well

Calesta · 01-19-2003, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Jan 19 2003, 03:29 AM
well, i learned something in this thread. Jeff from atomic is Jeff from IB. well i'll be =)

Is he? I'm not so sure about that...

2 litre EG · 01-19-2003, 11:49 PM

yeah if i remember correctly Jeff Schaffer who currently owns Import Builders/Import Review used to work the dyno for Atomic Performance in Walnut California... i do believe they are still located at the same shop but i could be wrong... i do remember the Street Fighter 2 Tournaments we had over at Atomic back in the day

**machine** · 01-20-2003, 01:45 AM

toymaker check out b20vtec.com

egsir · 01-20-2003, 02:08 AM

Import builders are in fullerton. there crvtec setup is the shit but it cost about 12,000 for the stage 3.

egsir · 01-20-2003, 02:09 AM

Sorry not stage 3...but all out crvtec setup.

2 litre EG · 01-20-2003, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by egsir@Jan 20 2003, 02:13 AM
Import builders are in fullerton. there crvtec setup is the shit but it cost about 12,000 for the stage 3.

damn i knew it was either fullerton or walnut... their not too far from eachother so i wasn't completely wrong... its still 909

:hitting self on head: doh!!

Calesta · 01-22-2003, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2 litre EG@Jan 19 2003, 10:54 PM
yeah if i remember correctly Jeff Schaffer who currently owns Import Builders/Import Review used to work the dyno for Atomic Performance in Walnut California... i do believe they are still located at the same shop but i could be wrong... i do remember the Street Fighter 2 Tournaments we had over at Atomic back in the day

Hmm ok. SF2 tournaments... damn those were the days.

Integra1990 · 01-24-2003, 04:56 PM

how did "lsvtec" not get in on this post?

K2e2vin · 01-24-2003, 05:20 PM

What is the point of doing a b20/b18c5 swap??? Just bore the b18 to 84mm and you have a b20 with better sleeves. The b18/b20 engines are practically the same its just they have different bores and the b18 has VTEC. Seems like it would be cheaper to bore out the b18.

Calesta · 01-24-2003, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Jan 24 2003, 04:25 PM
What is the point of doing a b20/b18c5 swap??? Just bore the b18 to 84mm and you have a b20 with better sleeves. The b18/b20 engines are practically the same its just they have different bores and the b18 has VTEC. Seems like it would be cheaper to bore out the b18.

Buy the B18C5 for $4500-$5500, then bore/resleeve for $1300 or so with new pistons... it's still cheaper to build a true B20/VTEC. You don't need strutted sleeves to run an NA B20/VTEC anyway.

01-16-2003, 03:50 PM	#1
thetoymaker Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the mountains (love driving to work) Age: 36 Posts: 104 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: CIVIC B20Z2 VTEC Rep Power: 15	Hi all, New here, and I have a few questions. All about the ITR Head and CRVTEC I read that the p73 head is found on the itr and it is ported and polished by honda. I can't find any real tech sheets on just the head specifacations. There are some little differences like double-springs on the vtec valve lifters in the head. It seems physically bigger than the gsr head (or is it just the price difference?) What are the primary performance #'s? And I have seen everyone doing the crvtec thing with b20b/b16a combos, but what would you have if you went with a b20z/b18c5 hybrid? I mean go with the type-r cams and as much type-r stuff as possible (pumps/pulleys), when I total the displacement I get like... 2.19L? I haven't found too much on people that have done this hybrid swap anywhere on the internet. What kind of horsepower would I be looking at If I did this? Would it be worth it? costs for this conversion seem the highest of all the swaps, but- more $$= more HP/ass-kicking right? I have seen b20b/b16a combos putting out 240+HP N/A at shows listed on the web, would the b20z/b18c5 hybrid put out more than that?? Some of the parts listed for the GSR were used by honda for the CRV, like the fuel pump...... What does true LSD (limited slip differential) do for you? Geared, not clutch(s) u know the $1300-3000 types. ever have one of those questions you couldn't answer? __________________ Was that fast?

01-16-2003, 04:05 PM	#2
2 litre EG Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: so cali Posts: 1,103 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 26	i dont know for a fact if it is port polished by Honda but when you port polish a head alot of it has to do with de-burring a head... for example wheh i did my 2 litre Ls VTEC i used the stock type-r head and it didnt breathe for shi%. if you really have your heart set on a type-r head then i have one for sale, only thing missing is the VTEC rocker arms, which you can get off any b16 and replace with ease... its a bare head, no cams etc etc etc i believe that when people do their CR/VTEC or LS/VTEC set ups then they do it to conserve moeny, cause there isn't much of a difference in the two... the GSR on the other hand is already closed chamber [i think?] so you wont have to get that done if you were to use a GSR head... as for horsepower there is no way for us to guess your output... the guy that put out 240 to the wheel was a guy named Marouj aka Pacman... he got his work done by Atomic Performance [now known as Import Builders]... Jeff Schaffer over there was the guy who did the tuning... he is well renowned for his tuning capabilities of producing the most wheel horsepower from a daily driven car... Pacman also holds the current record for daily driven all motor car 11.86@118mph [mph unsure] as for other questions i really dont know the answer or where to even begin.... maybe someone else on the board who knows more about it can help you out... __________________ Jason - 2.0L ls/vtec - 13.23@107 on slicks <a href=\'http://www.hondashowoff.com/profile.php?id=3042\' target=\'_blank\'>My Honda Showoff Gallery</a> - Vote for Me!!! <a href=\'http://www.hondaswap.com/gallery/browse.php?album_id=178\' target=\'_blank\'>My Gallery on HondaSwap</a> <a href=\'http://www.hondaswap.com/gallery/album.php?mode=view&album_id=311\' target=\'_blank\'>My Other Album</a> -------------------------------

01-16-2003, 04:09 PM	#3
B16 Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: yay area, CA Age: 31 Posts: 6,759 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 126	they do a mild port polish on the intake side only. it does come with dual springs and retainers that are slightly stiffer than other b series springs (i know the b16 head has only single springs on the exhaust side, but dual on the intake) what are your plans for this motor? are you going to be doing a lot of head work anyways? if so, find the cheapest head you can, get it ported polished, the works, and you'll end up with something better than a type r head for not that much more. __________________ 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8 2004 BMW 325i 2000 Mercedes Benz ML 430 1994 Honda Civic Del Sol VTEC (race kaa)

01-16-2003, 07:20 PM	#4
thetoymaker Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the mountains (love driving to work) Age: 36 Posts: 104 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: CIVIC B20Z2 VTEC Rep Power: 15	I read on another post that the stupid expensive aluminum crank pully I put on will destroy my engine. I wish that was printed on the box it came in. Hindsight... yeah I know but i'm tired of spending money on the wrong stuff. As for the right stuff, that's why i'm here. to find out more. If you have built one of these CRVTEC's before I could use any advice you could give. thanks __________________ Was that fast?

01-16-2003, 07:46 PM	#5
B16 Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: yay area, CA Age: 31 Posts: 6,759 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 126	i know how you feel about wasting money, i've done it myself. its good that you are doing the research before you dive into it, always smart to do. i have not built a crvtec myself, but i do have some genral knowledge. give us an estimate of your budget, what you want out of this motor? this helps in determining the best avenues to go. as far as your crank pulley goes, get it balanced and you should be ok (there are machinists who can balance them) __________________ 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8 2004 BMW 325i 2000 Mercedes Benz ML 430 1994 Honda Civic Del Sol VTEC (race kaa)


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01-16-2003, 08:22 PM	#6
thetoymaker Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the mountains (love driving to work) Age: 36 Posts: 104 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: CIVIC B20Z2 VTEC Rep Power: 15	aha a machine shop eh? I will have to do that. What about the holes u find in the stock crank pulley? Are those not the dampening device in the harmonic balancer? Hmmmm I would have to think that the crankshaft harmonics are eliminated by the holes, cuz bells don't have holes. __________________ Was that fast?

01-19-2003, 04:24 AM	#11
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 29 Posts: 49,951 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 531	well, i learned something in this thread. Jeff from atomic is Jeff from IB. well i'll be =) lol but seriously. there's some good info in this thread, and also the one in our FAQ forum on cr/vtec setups. read that as well

01-19-2003, 11:49 PM	#13
2 litre EG Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: so cali Posts: 1,103 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 26	yeah if i remember correctly Jeff Schaffer who currently owns Import Builders/Import Review used to work the dyno for Atomic Performance in Walnut California... i do believe they are still located at the same shop but i could be wrong... i do remember the Street Fighter 2 Tournaments we had over at Atomic back in the day __________________ Jason - 2.0L ls/vtec - 13.23@107 on slicks <a href=\'http://www.hondashowoff.com/profile.php?id=3042\' target=\'_blank\'>My Honda Showoff Gallery</a> - Vote for Me!!! <a href=\'http://www.hondaswap.com/gallery/browse.php?album_id=178\' target=\'_blank\'>My Gallery on HondaSwap</a> <a href=\'http://www.hondaswap.com/gallery/album.php?mode=view&album_id=311\' target=\'_blank\'>My Other Album</a> -------------------------------

01-20-2003, 01:45 AM	#14
machine Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: houston tx Posts: 341 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	toymaker check out b20vtec.com

01-20-2003, 02:08 AM	#15
egsir Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 109 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 16	Import builders are in fullerton. there crvtec setup is the shit but it cost about 12,000 for the stage 3. __________________ "To each his own."

01-20-2003, 02:09 AM	#16
egsir Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 109 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 16	Sorry not stage 3...but all out crvtec setup. __________________ "To each his own."

01-24-2003, 04:56 PM	#19
Integra1990 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: omaha nebraska Posts: 275 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 17	how did "lsvtec" not get in on this post? __________________ LS/t

01-24-2003, 05:20 PM	#20
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,358 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	What is the point of doing a b20/b18c5 swap??? Just bore the b18 to 84mm and you have a b20 with better sleeves. The b18/b20 engines are practically the same its just they have different bores and the b18 has VTEC. Seems like it would be cheaper to bore out the b18.

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