Luis998

Wow! *takes deep breath* I've been trying not to really bother anyone by posting a thread, but rather, by researching the hell out of what I need. With that said, here goes...

After ten long years, I FINALLY have the means to start my build. At first I wanted a full B16, but now, if people would quit flaking on me, I may go with a B16 head and B18C block combo. I'm giving myself a year to finish the build, as web sites are the only place it seems I am able to get any information from. (yes, sadly I don't know anyone around my area that's into cars) Anywho, this is what I have thus far...*insert drum roll here* a B16A2 head that came off a '99 Civic. I'm wondering what my starting point should be. Currently I'm talking with EvasiveMotorsports and having them put together a package that includes Skunk2 stage 2 turbo cams, Skunk2 cam gears, and an entire valve train. Now then, my ponderance lies as to what I should do first. I've already talked with a machine shop to get the head completely dismantled, hot tanked and port and polished. I'm wondering though if this is all a good idea before I decide what block I'm going to end up with. My horse power goals are 330 and it will be built for forced induction of course, as the cams point out. I'm trying to think the other questions that guys like Blanco, YBLegal or Calesta would ask from the people building anything on here, but I'm drawing a blank. Feel free to drill me, grill me, but most important of all, teach me. The million dollar question stands....

Where the heck do I start on the head? Thanks for your help in advance.

P.S. Forgive my stupid ass if I posted this in the wrong place. Engine building seemed appropriate for a build of any kind.

Matts96HB

It seems like you have a good start, and I'd go ahead and have the shop clean that sucker up and do some work to it. A good PnP can't really hurt. You can use the B18C block which is known to be pretty damn strong, or if you want to go the cheaper route you can always go LS-VTEC or B20VTEC, the choice depends on your budget there.

The most important thing is to not get in a hurry. Take your time, buy quality parts and do it right the first time, that way you only have to do it once.

Good luck

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Luis998

I figured the best start would be to have the shop take the rest of it apart, hot tank it and then PnP. I'm not sure how much of a PnP I should have done as there seems to be different "levels" if you will, of PnP. My guess is that I would want a PnP that would be good for both street and hopefully some day track, if there is such a type of PnP like that. I considered going LS/VTEC for a while as I seem to be running into B18's all the time. Realistically though I want to stick with a straight up VTEC swap, meaning either a straight up B16 or B16 head/GSR combo. Trust me when I say that I am more than willing to take my time on this build and be patient. I have a lot to learn and do NOT want to just throw money away.

On a side note, my side project just took a turn for the better. I just found a complete Z6 swap and will probably be working on that at the same time as well. Five bucks says that gets finished before the B. haha

Blanco

You just want a basic casting clean up / gasket match port and polish. Make sure you get a valve job to go along with it.

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Luis998

Thanks, Scott. I spoke with the machine shop and they gave me a $50 price to have it hot tanked and dismantled completely. I am going to check with another reputable shop this week and compare prices. I'm thinking that the prices may be close between them. The only difference will be distance and I'm willing to drive for good service. The shop told me that they usually include a valve job along with the port and polish. I'm thinking that bronze valve guides will probably be a good idea as well. To me it makes sense to switch to the bronze valve guides.

LS_VTEC

Clean up the head. replace all seals, valvetrain components and so forth. Your question should be what components you need to buy. Skunk2 has failed under 20+psi on numerous hondas out of my tuners shop. They recommend Ferrea. Dual valve springs, titanium retainers, oversized valves (since your getting a valve job done anyway). No need for flat faced valves. Good luck.

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LS_VTEC

Oh yea.... there is no need for the skunk2 cams if your looking to make 400whp. I've made 500+ with gsr cams. They seemed to work best in my turbo setup, even over the itr's.

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philyphreak2127

You are very smart to start from the head and work your way down. As for your post I am glad to see someone who has a basis to start on rather than diving in and asking stupid ass questions. I would say let that shop do everything you stated except for a couple things. First of all I know some shops charge less if you take the cams out yourself. I would suggest that. Save yourself some money by taking 20 minutes of your day, to remove these. Also I would say take it from LS_Vtec and go with some gsr cams instead of skunk2 cams, save yourself even more money right there. I would say instead of the b18 bottom end I would go with the b20 bottom end. There is this saying there is no replacement for displacement, I disagree but if you don't have the block yet I would suggest going with that. Also depending on how many psi you plan on pushin I would suggest some eagle rods, and forged pistons, a thicker head gasket, and arp head studs. Trust me all of these items have the potential of handling more power, and will save you money in the end. Also the thicker head gasket will lower compression a bit, which will be good with your turbo. Which turbo do you plan on running?

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Parts for sale:
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Build Threads:
Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html

Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

Blanco

That's because Type R cams are low lift / high duration where GSR cams are higher lift / shorter duration. In other words, if you don't use all-motor cam profiles with forced induction you'll get better results because the long duration allows boost to go out the exhaust before the valves close. The higher lift of turbo profiles allows more boost into the cylinder and the shorter duration keeps it there.

Personally, I'm a fan of making the engine make more power n/a so you don't have to push the turbo as hard.

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Luis998

The Skunk2 valvetrain has failed? Seeing on how I'm still trying to find more information on my build, this is new to me. I have seen a lot of people going with Ferrera valves, but just can't find a place to read up on them as to why they would. I figured purchasing the entire valvetrain from the same company (in this case Skunk2) would be a smart choice since all components would work harmoniously with each other and were made to work together. I know that I will be getting dual valve springs and titanium retainers. I was looking for the bronze valve guide link that I have but can't find it. Eh, more googling/research time. haha How does one determine the oversize of the valves and what is the difference between a three and five angle valve job?

Thank you. I figured a good, solid starting point would be a smart way to go. I didn't just want to "dive in" and tackle everything all at once. That and finding what I want has been difficult enough. The good thing is that the cams, springs, and retainers are already out. As far as the block goes, I did contemplate going the LS/VTEC route, but ended up thinking that it may be a really difficult project for me to take on while I'm still learning and figuring out some of the basics. You nailed the head right on the block (instead of you hit the nail right on the head analogy) when you talked about the block components. Eagle rods, CP pistons, etc., will be used on the bottom end build. We just can't get ahead of ourselves, since I am just working on the head and still don't know which block I will end up with. haha ARP everything WILL be included in this build. Piece of mind and just doing things right are two of the reasons why I'll be using their studs, bolts, etc. etc. I've been playing with the compression calculator lately in trying to figure out the thickness of the head gasket. Can't do much of that now since, again, no block yet. As far as the turbo goes, I'm contemplating building my own kit, so to speak. That way I will get every component I want. Without going into too much detail (since, again, I don't have the block yet) I could guess on a T3/T4 set up. Again, that is just a guess.

Do you see any downside in using the Skunk2 components I mentioned, Scott? I figured they would be the best way to go but am not sure at all if they will help the engine make enough power so that the turbo can sit back, relax, and take a break here and there. haha Nothing is set in stone yet, as I could change around the entire valvetrain and cams. This is the beautiful part of research and learning...you can edit the hell out of your set up until you get it right...then buy, buy, buy!

Luis998

By the way, if anyone has links to where I may be able to purchase bronze valve guides and find information on Fererra I would greatly appreciate it.

Blanco

Yeah, there are numerous stories of Skunk2 valve springs and valves failing.

You can get bronze valve guides from Ferrea, too. A lot of people go with them for valves because they're high quality.

The difference between a three and five angle valve job is literally the number of angles cut into the valve seat. Five angles makes for a smoother transition. Think of it like the difference between NES and Super NES graphics.

Yeah, like I said, I've read a lot of stories about Skunk2 valve trains failing. You can get PortFlow springs and retainers and be good to go.

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Luis998

I will take everyones word then and go with a different valvetrain. Ferrea sounds like the obvious choice here. I just have to find their site. haha Higher quality is not only good quality to me, but also peace of mind.

You know, I remember numerous hours playing Mario Bros. on NES, then on SNES. I KNEW that there was a correlation between the NES vs. SNES's graphics and valve jobs. haha I really liked playing Wrestlemania Challenge on NES and using either the Ultimate Warrior or Brutus the Barber Beefcake. Ahh, the memories. Thank you for clearing that up. At least that's one more thing that I now know to do, a five angle versus a three angle valve job. Which would be a better choice, regular sized or over sized valves and which brand has a good reputation?

Now to find the valvetrain!

Would it be safe to stick with the Skunk2 cams that I chose and go with a different valvetrain or should I venture to a different set of cams?



I found the PortFlow site, Scott, and noticed they have both PortFlow and Ferrea valvetrain packages. The question is, which of the two to go with. I figured the price would be way more than what is advertised, so that's a good thing. Now that the price is out of the way, I'll have to decide between the two. I'm not into skimping out on anything and from what you have said, both seem to be very good products. I wonder, in comparing the two, would it be like comparing apples to oranges? Decisions, decisions, decisions.

I'm going to have to let Evasive down easily, as they just sent me the quote for the valvetrain package.

Blanco

Hahaha.

Yeah, the S2 cams should be fine.

PortFlow or Ferrea would be more like Granny Smith or Red Delicious apples. Different flavors of the same thing.

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Luis998

I figured someone would enjoy my analogies.

Now then, about the valvetrain, around these parts we LOVE apples. Some are more expensive than the others, while some taste better than the others. With that said, if both the "Granny Smith" (Ferrea valvetrain) which is a bit more expensive and the "Red Delicious" (PortFlow valvetrain) apple are just about the same, for the price, I'm somewhat inclined to go with the "Red Delicious" so I can better use the rest of the funds elsewhere. Perhaps on a crap ton of Honda stickers that add FIVE HORSEPOWER PER STICKER!!!

Whew! I'm glad I have a better idea of what direction I'm going now as far as the valvetrain and Cams go. If I could only tell my left from my right nowadays I'd be set. GPS anyone? haha

Luis998

Oh! I know what I forgot to post...pictures of the quasi-dismantled head! It looks ever so beautiful. I'd like to take this time to thank God for the impending hot tank bath that my head will be receiving very soon. THANK YOU SWEET JESUS! I'll do my best to pre "bath" and post "bath" pics soon. That's the head of my engine build for your perverts out there.

Blanco

Hahaha. Goof ball.

Yeah, the PortFlow valve train is really good quality from all reports I've read.

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