Luis998

Your word is good enough for me. Let me ask you then, at what horsepower would it matter if you had over sized valves? Say if, God help me in the middle of things I felt like achieving 400hp at the wheels, would I worry about over sized valves then or still stick with stock?

I feel like I am going to stick with PortFlow, as far as my valve train goes. Now I have to find a purty set of valves to make the head go vrooom. If the head could really go vrooom that is.

Luis998

I've been pondering on whether or not to do this for a while, but here goes a parts list of everything I have acquired thus far. Mind you, I never expected to be this far in acquiring pieces for my build so soon. I'll include some prices as well, just to give anyone else looking to start a build like this an idea of what you could "possibly" pay for parts.

B16A2 head off a 99 Si - $350 I might have found a better deal had I waited a little longer, but I did not want to be without a starting point. This purchase was, believe it or not, a cockblock of sorts, as the guy selling the head called me the day I was supposed to come pick it up and told me someone else was coming to pick it up before me. I got in my car, raced over there and yes, the other guy. haha Like I said, I wanted a starting point.

JDM B16 block with Eagle Rods - $400 This purchase I did not expect to get so early in the build. I had been inquiring about a GSR block originally and a B16 block here and there. When the guy that sold me my Z6 called me up and told me that his friend, a reliable source of parts, was selling this block for this price, WITH Eagle Rods, (after posting on here and getting a nod from Blanco as well) I HAD to jump all over it. The rods alone go for $300. The block is complete except for the alternator.

As I just stated, this is what I have collected thus far for my build. The tranny is going to wait, as I would like to start the work on the head first and complete it, unless a good price should pop-up all of a sudden, as was the case with the block. Something did happen which unfortunately put a halt on my acquiring more parts, but as I said at the beginning of the thread, I do have patience and am willing to take a year on this build. After all, I do want to do it right the first time around.

I have to remember to get the head thermal coated whenever I have work done on it. This, I just found out, will help "make more horsepower" as kindly pointed out by Blanco.

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Luis998

You know, I could have sworn that I had seen that done to pistons before. I'd better make like Santa Claus before I go to the machine shop, make a list, check it twice, and figure out what questions I want to ask and what things I would like to get done. Winning half the lottery at this point wouldn't hurt things either. haha

How else would thermal coating the pistons help out, Scott? And cryo-dipping is something I have never heard of. Wow...so much more to learn. I love it. Must...soak up...knowledge...and...not...blow up...engine...all your base are belong to us...

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newb

Blanco, what kind of shops do cryo dipping? Is it typically shops that do other things like ceramic coating?

Luis998

I'm personally going to ask the machine shop as soon as I have the chance to go. However, any guidance on this would be greatly appreciate it.

newb

I myself cant give you any accurite guidance on it. The only reason I know about it is because the new 4G63 engine either comes with cryo-dipped rods, or thats the popular choice for big power engine builders as apposed to buying aftermarket internals. I guess what Im tryin to say is the first time I read about it, it was done to rods in a 4G63 and it was either stock or done as apposed to buyin aftermarket (my memory fails me now).

Luis998

Now there's food for thought. Should a process like this be done before or after having work done on, say the head, at a machine shop?

newb

Thats a great link, all kinds of info there. Thanks for posting that up.

Luis998

He's a good guy, Newb. Look up other posts in which he has given advice in. He will not steer you wrong. Just don't piss him off and blow off his advice. haha

Luis998

PortFlow valve train versus SuperTech. How would the two compare? Price wise they are both close and both offer Nitride coated valves. Which by the way, what is the advantage in having Nitride coated valves?
PortFlow .: Products :.

SuperTech Laskey Racing Online Store

PortFlow's price for the valve train which includes dual springs and titanium retainers is $320.

SuperTech's price for the valve train which includes the same is $310. Shipping is included.

PortFlow's Nitride coated valves are not showing on their site, ironically, which leads me to question if they do make valves?

SuperTech's Nitride coated valves are $250 for all, are available in flat or dish top (something I do not know which to choose) and offer oversized valves at no extra cost. (another thing I'm still confused about is whether or not to get oversized valves) Shipping is included.

PortFlow offers manganse-bronze valve guides for $6.00 each or $96 a set.

SuperTech offers a full set of Bronze valve guides for $95. Shipping is included.

PortFlow offers a full set of new seals for $24.

SuperTech offers all of this, minus the valve guides and seals for $525 with shipping included. All that would be left to purchase here would be the valve guides and seals.

Perhaps I'm looking too "deep" into all of this, but I do want to do this right the first time and not end up shelling out money for crap...something that from what I have read and been taught, PortFlow is not. If anyone knows anything about SuperTech, please feel free to share. I'm currently looking through different posts, seeing what kind of valve trains people have had success with and which ones, quite frankly, have bitten the dust. Skunk2's valve train is definitely out of the picture.

I pondered hard today as to what my next purchase should be, and I decided that it should be the valve train. Why? It would be like building from the inside out. I take my head to the shop, have it dismantled, port and polished, have the valve guides installed, seals...I can't forget to get new seals, valves, five angle valve job, retainers and springs, then finish off with the cams.

Whew! For a guy that barely has a brain, that sure did take a lot out of me. haha Feel free to chime in and let me know if anyone else would go about this a different way and why. Thanks again all.

By the way Scott, if you're around, you said before that guys have had success in running Omni Power in their D-series. What about B-series? Have you or anyone else heard about Omni Power in a B?

God bless you all for helping me out. *grins*

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Luis998

haha....looks like I may have just posted all of that information for nothing. I just found an article that makes SuperTech seem like crap. Then again, that's only one piece of information. Actual statements from people that have used their components would be more useful.

Luis998

These are some other bronze valve guides I am considering. IL4 Bronze Valve Guides

Luis998

I'll have to look on H-T then, because I can not find valves made by Omni. In fact, the only ones that I have found are made by SuperTech. How would they compare to PortFlow and OmniPower (two which you do endorse) as far as quality. All of these are priced close together, however; SuperTech offers the best package as far as price and includes valves with their package. It would make sense to me to go with an entire valve train package and valves from the same company.

It's a lot of fun multi-tasking between sites. I go from here to H-T to TurboD16, to D-Series.org depending on what I am looking for as far as information is concerned.

It's a hard thing to do, but I'd like to make up my mind on which valve train to go with so that I can move on. Never the less, this is half the fun as far as learning and researching goes.

You know, I wonder how many people are taking notes off this post. haha It's getting a lot of hits, yet no one else seems to want to chime in.

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Luis998

Thanks once again, Scott. That makes it much easier on deciding on valves. We talked about PortFlow before being a good vavle train, but how would I find out if they would be the right choice for my cams? Also, SuperTech, how do they measure up? The only reason I keep on bring up SuperTech is because they offer a good deal on the entire valve train, including valves. Then again, if it's crap, I do not want it. The only time I deal with crap is when I ...umm, lets forget I mentioned that.

Do Nitride coated valves really make a difference?

And out of sheer, morbid curiosity, for all of the other 500+ viewers of the thread, you do know that I would welcome your insight as well. haha Don't be scared, Scott won't bite...much....unless provoked. If you mess with him I'll be forced to ram a tube down your throat, pull the pin on the grenade I'm holding now and make you go boom. This also goes if you ignore his freakin'advice! Then again I'm sure we would both enjoy watching your engine blow up over a cold one. haha!

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Luis998

I know that OmniPower and PortFlow make good valves and a good valve train. With that said, what about SuperTech? Does anyone know about them? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

LS_VTEC

Ferrea

Luis998

*sigh* I wish I had the money for Ferrea. They make such great stuff. Believe me, if I get the money for that I will get Ferrea. For now, I was looking for another quality valve train and valves. Do you know anything about SuperTech, LS? They have the best "priced package" it seems. Then again, I'm not wanting to skimp out, cut corners, and slack on buying quality products. I would just like to get the best bang for my buck.

90_EF_Hatch

hmmm ... if you cant get much info on Supertech i wouldnt risk it, i would go with something that is proven good and has a lot of information and support, because like you said, you dont wanna skimp out on anything and want it done right the first time.

Just my .02

Luis998

You know what my friend, you have a very good point. I've only read one thing on SuperTech and it has been negative. Your two cents really made a lot of sense. Thanks again.

LS_VTEC

Supertech is junk in my opinion. Ferrea is my #1 choice. I'm not a big fan of skunk2 but its decent. If your on a budget and want somewhat decent valvetrain components than go with Manley.

Luis998

That's what I'm learning, hence, I will not be going with SuperTech.

Ferrea seems to be at number one, but paying $600 just for springs nowadays is not a very feasible option. Trust me, if I could, I would get them without thinking about it twice.

That seems to be the general consensus on Skunk2's valve train, hence why I won't be going with them either. I figured that part out a lot time ago.

Tell me more about Manley if you get the chance.

Right now PortFlow and OmniPower are the front runners for my build. Either or seems like a great choice. I will have to research Manley and compare them to these two.

Thanks for your input.

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Luis998

I just ran into yet another road block. The school I was going to just set me up on a payment plan to pay back the loan I got there. For the next six months I'm going to have to shell out an additional $200 every month, which means my acquiring parts and what have you may have just come to a screeching halt. I was doing so damn well too, especially since I almost had a full B16 and have a full Z6 for my D build. Now is the time where I research a lot and ask questions. That way as soon as I am able to start back up on buying things, it's Miller Time!

Something will give though, and that something will be my finding a second job for a few months to help things out. I WILL complete my build. Like I said before, I did give myself a year on it, and so far, I'm farther than I figured I would be at this point.

First things first. Come my next paycheck the head will be hopefully going into the machine shop for a well deserved "bath" and dismantling.

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Luis998

I know that if I use the head on a B16 block it would require B16 ARP bolts. What if I used it on a B18C? Would the head studs have to be for a B18C or a B16?

The reason I am asking this is because, though I have an almost complete B16 block with Eagle Rods, I was contemplating selling that and finding a complete B18C block. Why you ask? Well, it would make more power, even if the head were bolted on straight up (since it is a 1.6 vs. a 1.8) and two, I see more possibilities out of it. The beauty of it is that since I am taking a while for my build, I don't have to decide anything right now. I am just contemplating different ideas. I know that this would be a "poor man's Type R" but that's not what I'm going after. I figure that after having the head work completely done, even on stock bottom end internals (which God help me if I leave anything stock for more than five seconds) the power would be greater.

I wonder, is there a downside to this? Should I be worried about the R/S at all? I know that there are more details I will need to know when and if I get to this point. Perhaps I'm just spewing out ideas out of frustration. That's all for now my friends.

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newb

Let me take a crack at your head stud question. In the ARP catalog, which i have in my hands right now, there are three different B-series vtec part numbers. First there is GSR with P/N 208-4304, than there is B16A with P/N 208-4601, finally there is B20B w/B16A head with P/N 208-4306. Unfortunatly there is no further info to tell the differences between them. Ive always been told that with an LS/Vtec, no matter which head, use GSR studs. That leads me to believe that required height for both would be the same. One thought, maybe the distance the stud threads into the block varies, changing the required length, but I do not know. My best guess would be that the GSR and B16 head studs are the same, but thats only a guess. Maybe someone else would care to correct my thoughts or add to this? Good luck finding more info though.

Luis998

Thanks once again, Scott. I'll look around to see how much a block is selling for and use that as a guide. I'm not sure if the pistons are still in there, since it does have the Eagle Rods.

What things would have to be done different in making a B16head and a B18C block work together harmoniously? I know that the timing belt, water pump and something else have to be the same, but I'm wondering if it would be any more difficult doing a build like this than a regular B16 build.