Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

dvs_prelude · 01-29-2003, 09:42 AM

If the B20 is stock:
bore= 84 mm
stroke= 89 mm
1972 cc

And the LS is:
bore=81 mm
stroke = 89 mm
1834 cc

If you bore out an ls to 84mm, you have a 2.0L correct? If this is true, what's the point of having a b20? From reading the FAQ, it appears the largest you can bore out a b20 is 85mm. If the two bocks are identical, then surely you can bore an ls to 85mm. Even if it's not possible, what's 1mm difference in bore anyway? Is there some other factors involved that make the displacement of the b20 more than the ls? Or is it just the factor of the stock bore? Help me, I'm confused!!

Also, how much can you bore a GSR block to safely?

Thanks guys

pissedoffsol · 01-29-2003, 12:48 PM

the blocks aren't identical.

in order for an ls to hit 84mm, it needs to be re-sleeved. the stock ones will be paper thin at that point.

E_SolSi · 01-29-2003, 12:53 PM

ive seen bores listed up to 87mm
i have no idea how "safe" that is but ive seen it listed

dvs_prelude · 01-29-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by E_SolSi@Jan 29 2003, 01:58 PM
[b] ive seen bores listed up to 87mm
i have no idea how "safe" that is but ive seen it listed

87mm on an ls or b20?

Thanks for the response!

Anyone know how far you can go on a GSR safely?

E_SolSi · 01-29-2003, 01:46 PM

both

dvs_prelude · 01-29-2003, 03:58 PM

hmmm... So is it just the bore that gives the B20 the larger displacement, or is there something else? Are there other things that affect displacement? I'm just trying to find exactly what makes the B20 block larger and better than the LS. I plan on building one of them and I need to know if it's worth the money for the B20 and why exactly.
Thanks again!

E_SolSi · 01-29-2003, 04:11 PM

bore, stroke, and # of cylinders make up displacement

go here youll get the specs http://www.hondaswap.com/reference/index.p...php?mode=engine

if you plan to resleeve and get pistons anyway just get the B18 and build that however you want to

dvs_prelude · 01-29-2003, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by E_SolSi@Jan 29 2003, 05:16 PM
[b] bore, stroke, and # of cylinders make up displacement

go here youll get the specs http://www.hondaswap.com/reference/index.p...php?mode=engine

if you plan to resleeve and get pistons anyway just get the B18 and build that however you want to

Thanks, but that doesn't really give much information.
Besides the Bore of the B20 being 84mm, what makes it bigger than the B18b? Is there anything else? If I wanted to resleave a B20, how big could I bore it? Is there more space between the B20 cylinder walls?

E_SolSi · 01-29-2003, 05:30 PM

the B20 and B18 are pretty much identical... the B20 is just a B18 with a 84mm bore (thinner wall) the B18 and the B20 will be able to be bored to the same size... so once again... if you plan to resleeve and replace everything anyway start with the B18 it will cost you less money and be able to be built to the SAME specs as a b20 will... unless you NEED to have your block say "B20B" on it

i gave you that link so you could see that the difference between the two engines is the bore

B18B1
Bore (mm): 81
Stroke (mm): 89
1834cc

B20B
Bore (mm): 84
Stroke (mm): 89
1973cc

same stroke... larger bore = 139cc added displacement

dvs_prelude · 01-29-2003, 09:49 PM

Thanks for clearing that up!
So basically, B20=waste of money...
I thought there was something special about them. Basically, If I plan on building an engine, I could build an ls block just as strong as a B20 block and save myself around 500 bucks?!!?!
Wonder why people even bother with the b20 then?

K2e2vin · 01-29-2003, 10:18 PM

I dont really know why people choose to go b20vtec if they already have a extremely potential engine. For me im going turbo so i would keep it around 450cc a cylinder/1.8L engine, making power through revs and use a turbo. Larger cylinder gives you more torque. I would go with the b20 if i am going for all-motor, but your better off droping a h22 vtec instead of spending some for a hybrid engine.

B16 · 01-29-2003, 10:19 PM

because the b20 comes with an 84mm stock bore, if you find one for cheap, then it could end up being cheaper than the b18 resleeved to 84mm

E_SolSi · 01-29-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dvs_prelude@Jan 29 2003, 10:54 PM
[b] If I plan on building an engine, I could build an ls block just as strong as a B20 block and save myself around 500 bucks?!!?!
Wonder why people even bother with the b20 then?

yes if your building it it will be less expensive to just start with a B18

the B20 is a great choice for people who dont want/need a fully built bottom end, cuz its already 84mm

**damn B16 beat me to it

K2e2vin · 01-29-2003, 10:24 PM

and it may be cheaper in the long run for ive herd the b20 cylinders sleeves are garbage.

B16 · 01-29-2003, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Jan 29 2003, 08:29 PM
[b] and it may be cheaper in the long run for ive herd the b20 cylinders sleeves are garbage.

depends on your application, for NA the B20 sleeves are more than fine, if you plan on boosting, you should resleeve

K2e2vin · 01-29-2003, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by B16+Jan 29 2003, 11:39 PM-->

Quote:

Originally Posted by B16 @ Jan 29 2003, 11:39 PM)

K2e2vin

Quote:

Originally Posted by B16 @ Jan 29 2003, 11:39 PM)

@Jan 29 2003, 08:29 PM
[b] and it may be cheaper in the long run for ive herd the b20 cylinders sleeves are garbage.

depends on your application, for NA the B20 sleeves are more than fine, if you plan on boosting, you should resleeve

http://www.b20vtec.com/b20sleeves.html

B16 · 01-30-2003, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by K2e2vin+Jan 29 2003, 08:46 PM-->

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2e2vin @ Jan 29 2003, 08:46 PM)

Quote:

Originally posted by B16@Jan 29 2003, 11:39 PM
[b] K2e2vin

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2e2vin @ Jan 29 2003, 08:46 PM)

Quote:

@Jan 29 2003, 08:29 PM
[b] and it may be cheaper in the long run for ive herd the b20 cylinders sleeves are garbage.

depends on your application, for NA the B20 sleeves are more than fine, if you plan on boosting, you should resleeve

http://www.b20vtec.com/b20sleeves.html

calesta on this site runs a B20/vtec with endyn 12.6:1 CR pistons on his stock sleeves, he has put many miles on that thing, you can ask him about it

2 litre EG · 01-30-2003, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by B16@Jan 29 2003, 11:24 PM
[b] because the b20 comes with an 84mm stock bore, if you find one for cheap, then it could end up being cheaper than the b18 resleeved to 84mm

yes is true!!!

i coulda sworn i told you a bit about this dvs_prelude??

Calesta · 01-30-2003, 04:15 AM

GODDAMN MORE FUCKING MISINFORMATION AND BULLSHIT...

Any more of this "the B20 is weak crap and not worth a damn" and I'm going to stop answering questions on this board forever.

You do NOT need to resleeve the B20 to run NA, or even under boost. People screw up the B20 because they do a bad job building them, or they drive them like dumbasses.

A resleeved and bored B18 will NEVER be cheaper than a straight B20 block. If you're going NA, buy just the B20 and don't run the B18 resleeved unless you just have money to blow.

B20 short block = $600-700

B18 short block = $200-300
Resleeve and bore out to 84mm = $1000

$1300 > $700, RIGHT?!

Unless your B20 block is costing you $1300-1500, it is NOT more expensive than the B18 resleeved... not even if you got the B18 block for free. What the fuck kind of crack are you guys smoking? If you're running boost, just the B20 block on its own is ok too. If you want to go crazy, you'll want to resleeve any Honda B block- so if your goal is well over 300whp under pressure, you'll want to rebuild the block no matter what you do.

dvs_prelude · 01-30-2003, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2 litre EG+Jan 30 2003, 03:16 AM-->

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 litre EG @ Jan 30 2003, 03:16 AM)

B16

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 litre EG @ Jan 30 2003, 03:16 AM)

@Jan 29 2003, 11:24 PM
[b] because the b20 comes with an 84mm stock bore, if you find one for cheap, then it could end up being cheaper than the b18 resleeved to 84mm

yes is true!!!

i coulda sworn i told you a bit about this dvs_prelude??

yeah I remember

I just wanted to know if there was anything else that makes the blocks different.

dvs_prelude · 01-30-2003, 10:04 AM

Question!
Is it possible to increase the displacement of a GSR block to:
Bore (mm): 84
Stroke (mm): 89

If so, would it yield the same results as a B20/LS/VTEC built, minus the frankenstein affect?

Jason, you know why I'm asking about this

2 litre EG · 01-30-2003, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dvs_prelude@Jan 30 2003, 11:09 AM
[b] Question!
Is it possible to increase the displacement of a GSR block to:
Bore (mm): 84
Stroke (mm): 89

If so, would it yield the same results as a B20/LS/VTEC built, minus the frankenstein affect?

Jason, you know why I'm asking about this

yeah i know exactly why your asking hahaha... but im pretty sure that it is possible to do that to a GSR??? i dont see why not, cause in theory it would be pretty much the same as a b20 yes? im almost 95% sure that you can, im not sure what erick is running stroke wise but if i remember correctly he is running 85mm pistons???????????? i dunno i'll check back and let you know canek

2 litre EG · 01-30-2003, 01:19 PM

yeah he is running

bore: 85mm
stroke: 87.2mm
[info found at ericksracing.com]

hah! i knew it was something around those specs

hey canek, remember with those specs listed above erick is at 2.1L... did you buy the car yet?

dvs_prelude · 01-30-2003, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2 litre EG@Jan 30 2003, 02:24 PM
[b] yeah he is running

bore: 85mm
stroke: 87.2mm
[info found at ericksracing.com]

hah! i knew it was something around those specs

hey canek, remember with those specs listed above erick is at 2.1L... did you buy the car yet?

Wow 2.1L even with the stroke at 87.2mm as opposed to 89mm?
Are you sure? If so that's tight!!!!

2 litre EG · 01-30-2003, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dvs_prelude+Jan 30 2003, 05:57 PM-->

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvs_prelude @ Jan 30 2003, 05:57 PM)

2 litre EG

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvs_prelude @ Jan 30 2003, 05:57 PM)

@Jan 30 2003, 02:24 PM
[b] yeah he is running

bore: 85mm
stroke: 87.2mm
[info found at ericksracing.com]

hah! i knew it was something around those specs

hey canek, remember with those specs listed above erick is at 2.1L... did you buy the car yet?

Wow 2.1L even with the stroke at 87.2mm as opposed to 89mm?
Are you sure? If so that's tight!!!!

well thats what the site says... he could be lying but iunno...

when i get my car tuned in the next few weeks i'll ask him for you canek.

01-30-2003, 04:15 AM	#19
Calesta Posts: 27,322	GODDAMN MORE FUCKING MISINFORMATION AND BULLSHIT... Any more of this "the B20 is weak crap and not worth a damn" and I'm going to stop answering questions on this board forever. You do NOT need to resleeve the B20 to run NA, or even under boost. People screw up the B20 because they do a bad job building them, or they drive them like dumbasses. A resleeved and bored B18 will NEVER be cheaper than a straight B20 block. If you're going NA, buy just the B20 and don't run the B18 resleeved unless you just have money to blow. B20 short block = $600-700 B18 short block = $200-300 Resleeve and bore out to 84mm = $1000 $1300 > $700, RIGHT?! Unless your B20 block is costing you $1300-1500, it is NOT more expensive than the B18 resleeved... not even if you got the B18 block for free. What the fuck kind of crack are you guys smoking? If you're running boost, just the B20 block on its own is ok too. If you want to go crazy, you'll want to resleeve any Honda B block- so if your goal is well over 300whp under pressure, you'll want to rebuild the block no matter what you do. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon

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01-29-2003, 09:42 AM	#1
dvs_prelude Posts: 145	If the B20 is stock: bore= 84 mm stroke= 89 mm 1972 cc And the LS is: bore=81 mm stroke = 89 mm 1834 cc If you bore out an ls to 84mm, you have a 2.0L correct? If this is true, what's the point of having a b20? From reading the FAQ, it appears the largest you can bore out a b20 is 85mm. If the two bocks are identical, then surely you can bore an ls to 85mm. Even if it's not possible, what's 1mm difference in bore anyway? Is there some other factors involved that make the displacement of the b20 more than the ls? Or is it just the factor of the stock bore? Help me, I'm confused!! Also, how much can you bore a GSR block to safely? Thanks guys

01-29-2003, 12:48 PM	#2
pissedoffsol Posts: 49,698	the blocks aren't identical. in order for an ls to hit 84mm, it needs to be re-sleeved. the stock ones will be paper thin at that point.

01-29-2003, 12:53 PM	#3
E_SolSi Posts: 25,959	ive seen bores listed up to 87mm i have no idea how "safe" that is but ive seen it listed

01-29-2003, 03:58 PM	#6
dvs_prelude Posts: 145	hmmm... So is it just the bore that gives the B20 the larger displacement, or is there something else? Are there other things that affect displacement? I'm just trying to find exactly what makes the B20 block larger and better than the LS. I plan on building one of them and I need to know if it's worth the money for the B20 and why exactly. Thanks again!

01-29-2003, 04:11 PM	#7
E_SolSi Posts: 25,959	bore, stroke, and # of cylinders make up displacement go here youll get the specs http://www.hondaswap.com/reference/index.p...php?mode=engine if you plan to resleeve and get pistons anyway just get the B18 and build that however you want to

01-29-2003, 09:49 PM	#10
dvs_prelude Posts: 145	Thanks for clearing that up! So basically, B20=waste of money... I thought there was something special about them. Basically, If I plan on building an engine, I could build an ls block just as strong as a B20 block and save myself around 500 bucks?!!?! Wonder why people even bother with the b20 then?

01-29-2003, 10:18 PM	#11
K2e2vin Posts: 8,426	I dont really know why people choose to go b20vtec if they already have a extremely potential engine. For me im going turbo so i would keep it around 450cc a cylinder/1.8L engine, making power through revs and use a turbo. Larger cylinder gives you more torque. I would go with the b20 if i am going for all-motor, but your better off droping a h22 vtec instead of spending some for a hybrid engine.

01-29-2003, 10:19 PM	#12
B16 Posts: 10,590	because the b20 comes with an 84mm stock bore, if you find one for cheap, then it could end up being cheaper than the b18 resleeved to 84mm

01-29-2003, 10:24 PM	#14
K2e2vin Posts: 8,426	and it may be cheaper in the long run for ive herd the b20 cylinders sleeves are garbage.

01-30-2003, 10:04 AM	#21
dvs_prelude Posts: 145	Question! Is it possible to increase the displacement of a GSR block to: Bore (mm): 84 Stroke (mm): 89 If so, would it yield the same results as a B20/LS/VTEC built, minus the frankenstein affect? Jason, you know why I'm asking about this

01-30-2003, 01:19 PM	#23
2 litre EG Posts: 1,103	yeah he is running bore: 85mm stroke: 87.2mm [info found at ericksracing.com] hah! i knew it was something around those specs hey canek, remember with those specs listed above erick is at 2.1L... did you buy the car yet?

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