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Turbocivicracerx · 01-21-2005, 09:34 AM

Hello, I have had a hard time thinking of what I am going to do to my civic. I have a really good Idea on my baseline of my engine but there is one part that I am not sure on yet. I have seen a lot of ppl on the forums like Ls/vtec as others would strongly disagree. I am going to post what I am looking for out of this motor and Honestly to me money isnt really the obstical, as building my engine relibly fit for my application. I have a 1994 Honda Civic Ex. I am going to be driving the car everyday. But the car will be taken to the track offtenly. I am not as sure on my hp goal around 400-450 at the wheels or so around 17-20psi range. Im not exactly sure but some where in that range. I also want to run about a 75 shot of Nitrous on top of that. I am going to get a b18 block and have it sleeved, and then board to 84mm (2.0L) Forged internals. ect. But the part I am stuck on is should I go Vtec or not? For one I have there harder to tune with the turbo and The Stock valves on Non Vtec are 31 mm and the Vtec valves are 33mm, So if you advance the timing on the intake cam more than 4 degrees the Valve will hit the piston. This is what I have heard that there is bad valve overlap and that you will lose power with the turbo. So I thought I would ask and get some help. So All in all which will be more reliable of an engine. I know both setups will have some monster torque comparied to my D16z6 lol. My Car is wired for Vtec so that is not a Issue. On the tuning issue I am using Hondata s200. I am getting a New igniton and The 3 bar mapsensor for the Hondata. Also Then What should be done to the head. If its vtec or non. Thank you for your time.

Calesta · 01-21-2005, 12:05 PM

Either one will be reliable if built correctly. A VTEC engine will make more usable power than a non-VTEC engine if all other factors are kept the same, but you'll be able to achieve your power goal with both types of builds. The non-VTEC path is cheaper and mechanically simpler though.

Valves- I wouldn't worry about your valve size. If you're going to resleeve and get forged pistons for your 450whp goal, the valve reliefs will be big enough for VTEC valves.

Tuning- VTEC is a bit more difficult, but if you're going to someone who can't tune boost on VTEC, you should walk away and find someone else. Boost on VTEC is nothing new- it's been done a zillion times, and any competent tuner should be able to get a smooth boosted VTEC power curve with some time on the dyno.

Overlap- it is bad if you go with too much overlap, but that's what adjustable cam gears are for.

Head suggestions- port/polish, turbo profile cams, large plenum intake manifold

Turbocivicracerx · 01-21-2005, 01:18 PM

Thank You So Much for Your Post! I know a bit about both and I was just a lil shakey. Your post was very Informitive and helpfull in the path I was looking at taking. Thank You!

civic_dxr · 01-21-2005, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Turbocivicracerx@Jan 21 2005, 06:18 PM
Thank You So Much for Your Post!* I know a bit about both and I was just a lil shakey.* Your post was very Informitive and helpfull in the path I was looking at taking.* Thank You!

Quoted post

get that d16z6, get it sleeved, build your head, get some Vitara Pistons, slap ona turbo and tune that thing with a hondata s200b and u got urself 300WHP! and you probably saved yourself thousands.

d-series.

92civicb18b1 · 01-21-2005, 02:33 PM

NO. That's idiotic if he want's 450hp he is very doubtfully goinna make it on a d series.

I would suggest the gsr even though it's to tune, comparing it to an LS it's just a better motor. And thats amazing that I would say that cause I have a stupid obbession for Ls's.

You could have an LS-t have 450 hp pretty easily if money isn't a problem.

dosterschill · 01-21-2005, 03:33 PM

dude, dont slam the d. its a potentially power-house on some boost. without tuning, it can perform better than the b series on a factory kit without substantial modification.

dosterschill

Calesta · 01-21-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Turbocivicracerx+Jan 21 2005, 12:18 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Turbocivicra cerx @ Jan 21 2005, 12:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Thank You So Much for Your Post! I know a bit about both and I was just a lil shakey. Your post was very Informitive and helpfull in the path I was looking at taking. Thank You!

Quoted post
[/b]

You're welcome

Quote:

Originally posted by civic_dxr@Jan 21 2005, 01:21 PM
get that d16z6, get it sleeved, build your head, get some Vitara Pistons, slap ona turbo and tune that thing with a hondata s200b and u got urself 300WHP! and you probably saved yourself thousands.
d-series.

Quoted post

If you're going to go through the trouble and expense of resleeving the block, I sure as hell wouldn't cheap out and use Vitara pistons... get some real quality forged slugs if you're going to do all that. I think 300whp is a little shy of his power goals too.

Quote:

Originally posted by 92civicb18b1@Jan 21 2005, 01:33 PM
NO. That's idiotic if he want's 450hp he is very doubtfully goinna make it on a d series.

I would suggest the gsr even though it's to tune, comparing it to an LS it's just a better motor. And thats amazing that I would say that cause I have a stupid obbession for Ls's.

You could have an LS-t have 450 hp pretty easily if money isn't a problem.

Quoted post

Like I said before- a VTEC engine on boost isn't that hard to tune... but you're right- an LS turbo can make 450whp with no problems.

<!--QuoteBegin-dosterschill@Jan 21 2005, 02:33 PM
dude, dont slam the d. its a potentially power-house on some boost. without tuning, it can perform better than the b series on a factory kit without substantial modification.

dosterschill

Quoted post
[/quote]

civic_dxr · 01-22-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta+Jan 21 2005, 10:59 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Calesta @ Jan 21 2005, 10:59 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>

Quote:

Originally posted by Turbocivicracerx@Jan 21 2005, 12:18 PM
Thank You So Much for Your Post!* I know a bit about both and I was just a lil shakey.* Your post was very Informitive and helpfull in the path I was looking at taking.* Thank You!

Quoted post

You're welcome

Quote:

Originally posted by civic_dxr@Jan 21 2005, 01:21 PM
get that d16z6, get it sleeved, build your head, get some Vitara Pistons, slap ona turbo and tune that thing with a hondata s200b and u got urself 300WHP! and you probably saved yourself thousands.
d-series.

Quoted post

If you're going to go through the trouble and expense of resleeving the block, I sure as hell wouldn't cheap out and use Vitara pistons... get some real quality forged slugs if you're going to do all that. I think 300whp is a little shy of his power goals too.

Quote:

Originally posted by 92civicb18b1@Jan 21 2005, 01:33 PM
NO. That's idiotic if he want's 450hp he is very doubtfully goinna make it on a d series.

I would suggest the gsr even though it's to tune, comparing it to an LS it's just a better motor. And thats amazing that I would say that cause I have a stupid obbession for Ls's.

You could have an LS-t have 450 hp pretty easily if money isn't a problem.

Quoted post

Like I said before- a VTEC engine on boost isn't that hard to tune... but you're right- an LS turbo can make 450whp with no problems.

<!--QuoteBegin-dosterschill@Jan 21 2005, 02:33 PM
dude, dont slam the d. its a potentially power-house on some boost. without tuning, it can perform better than the b series on a factory kit without substantial modification.

dosterschill

Quoted post

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

well if he's on a tight budget he could do that..

but cheers to u if u got b-series. i kidna like being the underdog with the d-series ahaha.

Calesta · 01-22-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by civic_dxr@Jan 22 2005, 10:02 AM
well if he's on a tight budget he could do that.. but cheers to u if u got b-series. i kidna like being the underdog with the d-series ahaha.

Quoted post

I understand the appeal of staying with the D- but if he's going for 450whp, he can't be on too tight of a budget.

01-21-2005, 12:05 PM	#2
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,525 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	Either one will be reliable if built correctly. A VTEC engine will make more usable power than a non-VTEC engine if all other factors are kept the same, but you'll be able to achieve your power goal with both types of builds. The non-VTEC path is cheaper and mechanically simpler though. Valves- I wouldn't worry about your valve size. If you're going to resleeve and get forged pistons for your 450whp goal, the valve reliefs will be big enough for VTEC valves. Tuning- VTEC is a bit more difficult, but if you're going to someone who can't tune boost on VTEC, you should walk away and find someone else. Boost on VTEC is nothing new- it's been done a zillion times, and any competent tuner should be able to get a smooth boosted VTEC power curve with some time on the dyno. Overlap- it is bad if you go with too much overlap, but that's what adjustable cam gears are for. Head suggestions- port/polish, turbo profile cams, large plenum intake manifold __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

01-21-2005, 02:33 PM	#5
92civicb18b1 The Trisexual Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The asshole of the USA, New Jersey Age: 22 Posts: 8,874 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2007 Civic, 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Rep Power: 122	NO. That's idiotic if he want's 450hp he is very doubtfully goinna make it on a d series. I would suggest the gsr even though it's to tune, comparing it to an LS it's just a better motor. And thats amazing that I would say that cause I have a stupid obbession for Ls's. You could have an LS-t have 450 hp pretty easily if money isn't a problem. __________________ DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH QUESTIONS!!! Current Rides 1992 Chevy S-10 Ext. Cab Previous 1992 Civic DX Hatch = 1994 B18B1 Turbo Rebuilt Garrett .60/.48 T3, log style mani and DIY downpipe, DSM 440's, kteller IC piping, JRC Intercooler, Home Depot style oil lines, HKS BOV, Crome Tuned, 253whp 1994 Civic VX Hatch, 1992 b18a1 swap 1993 Civic CX Hatch, 2000 B18b1

01-21-2005, 03:33 PM	#6
dosterschill Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 87 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 12	dude, dont slam the d. its a potentially power-house on some boost. without tuning, it can perform better than the b series on a factory kit without substantial modification. dosterschill __________________ democrats: democracy is an exercise in practicality, not idealism; we reserve that for the likes of communism


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01-21-2005, 09:34 AM	#1
Turbocivicracerx Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 17 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 10	Hello, I have had a hard time thinking of what I am going to do to my civic. I have a really good Idea on my baseline of my engine but there is one part that I am not sure on yet. I have seen a lot of ppl on the forums like Ls/vtec as others would strongly disagree. I am going to post what I am looking for out of this motor and Honestly to me money isnt really the obstical, as building my engine relibly fit for my application. I have a 1994 Honda Civic Ex. I am going to be driving the car everyday. But the car will be taken to the track offtenly. I am not as sure on my hp goal around 400-450 at the wheels or so around 17-20psi range. Im not exactly sure but some where in that range. I also want to run about a 75 shot of Nitrous on top of that. I am going to get a b18 block and have it sleeved, and then board to 84mm (2.0L) Forged internals. ect. But the part I am stuck on is should I go Vtec or not? For one I have there harder to tune with the turbo and The Stock valves on Non Vtec are 31 mm and the Vtec valves are 33mm, So if you advance the timing on the intake cam more than 4 degrees the Valve will hit the piston. This is what I have heard that there is bad valve overlap and that you will lose power with the turbo. So I thought I would ask and get some help. So All in all which will be more reliable of an engine. I know both setups will have some monster torque comparied to my D16z6 lol. My Car is wired for Vtec so that is not a Issue. On the tuning issue I am using Hondata s200. I am getting a New igniton and The 3 bar mapsensor for the Hondata. Also Then What should be done to the head. If its vtec or non. Thank you for your time.

01-21-2005, 01:18 PM	#3
Turbocivicracerx Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 17 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 10	Thank You So Much for Your Post! I know a bit about both and I was just a lil shakey. Your post was very Informitive and helpfull in the path I was looking at taking. Thank You!

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