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K2e2vin · 08-15-2004, 03:13 PM

this for ef civic, but im wondering which would be a better route; built lsvtec or k20a. im lookin to build a car for some road course but mostly street drag performance. the k20a swaps usually go for around 5g w/o mounts(im guessing mounts and axles will be about $1000) and makes around 190hp easily, even more with just some minor mods. the ls vtec i was thinking about; resleeve to 85mm and 13:1 pistons, jun 3 cams etc etc. the lsvtec would be easier to get because its i am able to buy parts at a time, while the k20a i will need like 5g up front just to get the motor and tranny. should i just save up and get the k20a or should i save up and build up a lsvtec?

power goal: +220whp, 170lb-ft torque, ~10000rpm redline

allbottledup · 08-15-2004, 03:21 PM

most ls/vtec dyno anywhere from 180-210 hp depending on a whole bunch of varibles. Now even if you take the low number 180 thats a great start some mods you can easily be pushing to your goal. Esp. with a compression ratio like that. Why no boost though?

tab · 08-15-2004, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Aug 15 2004, 02:13 PM

power goal: +220whp, 170lb-ft torque, ~10000rpm redline

Quoted post

Red top H22A is 220 hp, 163 lb/ft torque, and would spin to about 8500. I little bit of work would get you there no problem and they make kits to install an H22 in a civic. The wiring wouldn't even be bad.

For straight line, I'd go H22. For road course, I would lean toward the LS VTEC.

K20A is a good engine, but it's still overpriced right now.

allbottledup · 08-15-2004, 05:12 PM

to be honest i dont like the k20...the newer the engines are getting the more bullshit with emissions and other shit too. I would stick with whats been around and proven to be very reliable. Parts are abundent too.

K2e2vin · 08-15-2004, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by allbottledup@Aug 15 2004, 02:21 PM
Why no boost though?

Quoted post

im going to race for money with this, its too hard to race another turbo car. plus its going to also be a autoX car. going turbo will also cost a little more. of course you do get more power, you wont have the flat torque curve

if i had a better looking car i would go turbo though

i guess ill stay with the lsvtec. thanks for the comments. the h22 seems too heavy, maybe a f20b would work but isnt that even more expensive? i was trying to figure out, for the price of the k20a, how much power would i be able to get out of a lsvtec.

allbottledup i guess you havent heard what north carolina might be doing about older cars and emission. they are thinking about droping the emission requirement for older cars (like OBD-0 cars)

. even now my sister has problems getting her 91 honda accord inspected because lots of places cant do inspection for cars older then 95.

JDMilan · 08-15-2004, 07:28 PM

"plus its going to also be a autoX car"

I don't think mounts are available for the EF, but I haven't checked that out in a while

since it's going to be for autocross also, I would stick with the lsvtec build.

nismogod · 08-16-2004, 08:40 PM

dammit, H22 isn't that much heavier. you can drop the ~80lbs anyways and stiffen the suspension. you have to do suspension work anyway to have a good drag car or a good autoX car. besides, h22 is with the cheapness.

integraslut78 · 08-16-2004, 09:46 PM

B20 ls/vtec. Its cheaper and I think you can definitely get those numbers that you want from the B20 without spending all that money up front.

JDMilan · 08-16-2004, 10:02 PM

the b20 sleeves can handle a good amount, read about some cat running NA with stock b20 sleeves into the low low 11's.

K2e2vin · 08-17-2004, 12:46 AM

sounds good, since i will be replacing the sleeves anyways. when the engine is resleeved, does it still use the siamese design?

MikeBergy · 08-17-2004, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Aug 16 2004, 09:46 PM
sounds good, since i will be replacing the sleeves anyways. when the engine is resleeved, does it still use the siamese design?

Quoted post

yes.

integraenthusiest · 08-17-2004, 08:44 PM

I agree with nismogod, the h22a is a really good engine for anything. Good hp, tq, and you can make up for the weight gain be stripping the interior, which will probably be done anyway since you want to autox. Its almost where you wanna be as far as power goes and its cheaper than the other options.

K2e2vin · 08-17-2004, 09:47 PM

i agree with blanco. when you strip the car down you will be biasing the weight more to the front also because most of the weight will be removed from the middle and rear of the car, not the front. which is probally why mostly 4-door accords are able to autocross with h22s; when strip down they still have weight in the back.

nismogod · 08-17-2004, 10:06 PM

springs fix understeer. you dont put a bigblock into a V6 mustang body without changing suspension. if you do something, do it right. besides, when its done right, someone driving it wont know the difference. typical driver that is.

K2e2vin · 08-17-2004, 10:16 PM

yea but stiffer springs= more tire wear and bumpy ride on the street. im guessing you've never driven in north carolina; we have a whole lot of paved roads and all of them have pot holes. even some of the repaved roads. my cousins stock dodge neon always bottoms out from some of the bumps...

nismogod · 08-17-2004, 10:32 PM

nope, gotta love FL. besides. Its an autoX car and Drag car. i didn't see much about regular commutes. lol

View Poll Results:
2 liter lsvtec	12	100.00%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

08-15-2004, 03:13 PM	#1
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,358 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	this for ef civic, but im wondering which would be a better route; built lsvtec or k20a. im lookin to build a car for some road course but mostly street drag performance. the k20a swaps usually go for around 5g w/o mounts(im guessing mounts and axles will be about $1000) and makes around 190hp easily, even more with just some minor mods. the ls vtec i was thinking about; resleeve to 85mm and 13:1 pistons, jun 3 cams etc etc. the lsvtec would be easier to get because its i am able to buy parts at a time, while the k20a i will need like 5g up front just to get the motor and tranny. should i just save up and get the k20a or should i save up and build up a lsvtec? power goal: +220whp, 170lb-ft torque, ~10000rpm redline __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

08-15-2004, 03:21 PM	#2
allbottledup Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Egg Harbor City NJ Age: 28 Posts: 1,533 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 Honda Civic EX Rep Power: 27	most ls/vtec dyno anywhere from 180-210 hp depending on a whole bunch of varibles. Now even if you take the low number 180 thats a great start some mods you can easily be pushing to your goal. Esp. with a compression ratio like that. Why no boost though? __________________ http://www.myspace.com/allbottledup email allbottledup@hotmail.com or Russelchiacchia@comcast.net

08-15-2004, 05:12 PM	#4
allbottledup Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Egg Harbor City NJ Age: 28 Posts: 1,533 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 Honda Civic EX Rep Power: 27	to be honest i dont like the k20...the newer the engines are getting the more bullshit with emissions and other shit too. I would stick with whats been around and proven to be very reliable. Parts are abundent too. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/allbottledup email allbottledup@hotmail.com or Russelchiacchia@comcast.net

08-15-2004, 07:28 PM	#6
JDMilan Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 6,733 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 81	"plus its going to also be a autoX car" I don't think mounts are available for the EF, but I haven't checked that out in a while since it's going to be for autocross also, I would stick with the lsvtec build. __________________ <span style=\"color:red\">"92 Blue EG"</span> -Project 3 - Motor A (NA stock SiR longblock B16 EG/S1tran) 14.3@97 15" radial tires & Gutted -Project 3 - Motor B (NA stock SiRII longblock B16 EG/S4tran) 13.3@103 MT's & Gutted <span style=\"color:red\">"Goldy S13"</span> -Project 4 - Motor A (FI SR20DET w/T28 "Under Construction&quot <span style=\"color:red\">"Silver E46"</span> -Project 5 - Motor A (???)


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08-16-2004, 08:40 PM	#7
nismogod Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Deltona, FL Posts: 1,031 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 24	dammit, H22 isn't that much heavier. you can drop the ~80lbs anyways and stiffen the suspension. you have to do suspension work anyway to have a good drag car or a good autoX car. besides, h22 is with the cheapness. __________________ Power is nothing without Control.

08-16-2004, 09:46 PM	#8
integraslut78 Stylus DJ Extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: KiLLa kALi Posts: 2,576 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: ????????? Rep Power: 38	B20 ls/vtec. Its cheaper and I think you can definitely get those numbers that you want from the B20 without spending all that money up front. __________________ DC Squad Member # 0631 I used to have my rides in this section but there are too many thieves out there trying to jack. I HATE THIEVES

08-16-2004, 10:02 PM	#9
JDMilan Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 6,733 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 81	the b20 sleeves can handle a good amount, read about some cat running NA with stock b20 sleeves into the low low 11's. __________________ <span style=\"color:red\">"92 Blue EG"</span> -Project 3 - Motor A (NA stock SiR longblock B16 EG/S1tran) 14.3@97 15" radial tires & Gutted -Project 3 - Motor B (NA stock SiRII longblock B16 EG/S4tran) 13.3@103 MT's & Gutted <span style=\"color:red\">"Goldy S13"</span> -Project 4 - Motor A (FI SR20DET w/T28 "Under Construction&quot <span style=\"color:red\">"Silver E46"</span> -Project 5 - Motor A (???)

08-17-2004, 12:46 AM	#10
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,358 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	sounds good, since i will be replacing the sleeves anyways. when the engine is resleeved, does it still use the siamese design? __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

08-17-2004, 08:44 PM	#12
integraenthusiest Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 152 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	I agree with nismogod, the h22a is a really good engine for anything. Good hp, tq, and you can make up for the weight gain be stripping the interior, which will probably be done anyway since you want to autox. Its almost where you wanna be as far as power goes and its cheaper than the other options. __________________ Im FAT

08-17-2004, 09:47 PM	#13
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,358 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	i agree with blanco. when you strip the car down you will be biasing the weight more to the front also because most of the weight will be removed from the middle and rear of the car, not the front. which is probally why mostly 4-door accords are able to autocross with h22s; when strip down they still have weight in the back. __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

08-17-2004, 10:06 PM	#14
nismogod Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Deltona, FL Posts: 1,031 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 24	springs fix understeer. you dont put a bigblock into a V6 mustang body without changing suspension. if you do something, do it right. besides, when its done right, someone driving it wont know the difference. typical driver that is. __________________ Power is nothing without Control.

08-17-2004, 10:16 PM	#15
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,358 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	yea but stiffer springs= more tire wear and bumpy ride on the street. im guessing you've never driven in north carolina; we have a whole lot of paved roads and all of them have pot holes. even some of the repaved roads. my cousins stock dodge neon always bottoms out from some of the bumps... __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

08-17-2004, 10:32 PM	#16
nismogod Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Deltona, FL Posts: 1,031 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 24	nope, gotta love FL. besides. Its an autoX car and Drag car. i didn't see much about regular commutes. lol __________________ Power is nothing without Control.

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