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ferrarikiller · 11-03-2005, 02:10 PM

So I'm looking into sleeves for my H22. From what I understand the stock sleeves are weak or the metal is soft or something and they can't support forged pistons. Has anyone ever done this and had problems?

I was looking into darton sleeves. I think I need the mid kit. At least thats what I've been told. Anyone know the difference between the stock replacement sleeve and the mid kit?
Thanks

reikoshea · 11-03-2005, 03:21 PM

definitely want darton sleeves. the stock sleeves are fmr and forged pistons will kill your cylinder walls.

TPR · 11-03-2005, 03:36 PM

if you have a h22a4 you have a open deck block 97-01 h22a

if it is a 92-96 it is a closed deck,

the MID from darton is a T-Sleeve (recommended for the 97-01)

92-96 cannot use a MID due to it being a closed deck.

we stock the H22a's sleeved & ready to roll

we have 9 in stock

we have 2 sleeved shortblocks assembled ready to go.
Crower Rods
CP Pistons
ACL Race Bearings

pix available if needed.

(513) 942-7020
www.tprcincy.com

pissedoffsol · 11-03-2005, 03:42 PM

FRM is the term [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]

it stands for fiber re-enforced metal.

Its cost and power / space efficiency are both half way between cast-iron liner and Nikasil. A fiber-based material in the form of cylinder sleeve is first inserted to the die of the block. Melted liquid aluminium is poured into the die and integrate with the fiber sleeve. Then the cylinder wall is machined to the desire bore dimension, leaving only 0.5 mm thickness to the fiber sleeve which covers the cylinder wall. It generates lower friction than iron liner, thus improves rev and power. Moreover, the fiber sleeve reinforces the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced yet maintain mechanical strength.

IMO, your best bet is to pull the motor and send the block to golden eagle or Benson's or RSMachines to get the sleeve job done.

buying the dartons and then paying a local machine shop to do the work will probably end up costing you more.

reikoshea · 11-03-2005, 05:27 PM

my bad b. typing fast while on break.

ferrarikiller · 11-04-2005, 01:24 AM

I work at a great machine shop so I'm not to woried about getting the work done.
I'm more looking for any input from previous experience Has anyone resleeved their h22?
I've got a complete 92-95 jdm block and a spare 2001 h22a4

reikoshea · 11-04-2005, 03:00 AM

well my engine guy told me he can get it sleeved for $600 on a closed deck. Darton does make sleeves for a closed deck H22.

ferrarikiller · 11-04-2005, 10:24 AM

The instal on the mid kit looks pretty rough. Should I run the replacement sleeve for the closed deck?
Anyone heard anything about AEBS sleeves?Any others?

reikoshea · 11-04-2005, 10:27 AM

Not a bad company from what i hear, but will they ship you sleeves...i thought they did only in house work.

ferrarikiller · 11-04-2005, 10:29 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pissedoffsol @ Nov 3 2005, 03:42 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
FRM is the term [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]

it stands for fiber re-enforced metal.

Its cost and power / space efficiency are both half way between cast-iron liner and Nikasil. A fiber-based material in the form of cylinder sleeve is first inserted to the die of the block. Melted liquid aluminium is poured into the die and integrate with the fiber sleeve. Then the cylinder wall is machined to the desire bore dimension, leaving only 0.5 mm thickness to the fiber sleeve which covers the cylinder wall. It generates lower friction than iron liner, thus improves rev and power. Moreover, the fiber sleeve reinforces the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced yet maintain mechanical strength.

[/b][/quote]

So does this mean that the cylinder walls are good and that they can take a forged piston? Or no?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reikoshea @ Nov 4 2005, 10:27 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Not a bad company from what i hear, but will they ship you sleeves...i thought they did only in house work.
[/b][/quote]
That may be why I couldn't find any part numbers on their web site

pissedoffsol · 11-04-2005, 11:27 AM

you CANNOT run a forged piston in FRM sleeves.
FRM can also not be re-honed.

there are a couple brands of forged pistons that use a special ring that are said to work in frm sleeves. but i have no experiece with this, and couldn't tell you if its truth or BS.

reikoshea · 11-04-2005, 01:02 PM

On honda-tech i couldnt find anyone with mahle pistons that ran for more than 5k miles...id get it resleeved if i were you. plenty of people run iron sleeves and forged pistons.

DO NOT RUN FORGED PISTONS IN FRM. You will have to rebuild your bottom end in like 100 miles (if you make it that far)

ferrarikiller · 11-05-2005, 01:38 AM

So all h22 engines have this frm material? Are any other honda blocks made with this? Where can I find more info on it? I'm curious how they make it.

also should I go with the closed deck block for the build I would think it would be stronger

Calesta · 11-05-2005, 07:24 AM

The F20C has FRM sleeves.

reikoshea · 11-05-2005, 04:27 PM

The NSX (C32 if i remember right) has FRM sleeves too.

I would say go for the closed deck. Its 100 more expensive for a better block to be sleeved.

11-03-2005, 02:10 PM	#1
ferrarikiller Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 112 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 12	So I'm looking into sleeves for my H22. From what I understand the stock sleeves are weak or the metal is soft or something and they can't support forged pistons. Has anyone ever done this and had problems? I was looking into darton sleeves. I think I need the mid kit. At least thats what I've been told. Anyone know the difference between the stock replacement sleeve and the mid kit? Thanks __________________ 96 4dr Accord h22 1 Seat. and recently added to the garage the Evo IX MR with Vishnu reflash and tuning 270 wheel hp 12.9 @ 106

11-04-2005, 01:24 AM	#6
ferrarikiller Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 112 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 12	I work at a great machine shop so I'm not to woried about getting the work done. I'm more looking for any input from previous experience Has anyone resleeved their h22? I've got a complete 92-95 jdm block and a spare 2001 h22a4 __________________ 96 4dr Accord h22 1 Seat. and recently added to the garage the Evo IX MR with Vishnu reflash and tuning 270 wheel hp 12.9 @ 106

11-04-2005, 10:24 AM	#8
ferrarikiller Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 112 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 12	The instal on the mid kit looks pretty rough. Should I run the replacement sleeve for the closed deck? Anyone heard anything about AEBS sleeves?Any others? __________________ 96 4dr Accord h22 1 Seat. and recently added to the garage the Evo IX MR with Vishnu reflash and tuning 270 wheel hp 12.9 @ 106

11-04-2005, 10:29 AM	#10
ferrarikiller Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 112 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 12	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pissedoffsol @ Nov 3 2005, 03:42 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> FRM is the term [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img] it stands for fiber re-enforced metal. Its cost and power / space efficiency are both half way between cast-iron liner and Nikasil. A fiber-based material in the form of cylinder sleeve is first inserted to the die of the block. Melted liquid aluminium is poured into the die and integrate with the fiber sleeve. Then the cylinder wall is machined to the desire bore dimension, leaving only 0.5 mm thickness to the fiber sleeve which covers the cylinder wall. It generates lower friction than iron liner, thus improves rev and power. Moreover, the fiber sleeve reinforces the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced yet maintain mechanical strength. [/b][/quote] So does this mean that the cylinder walls are good and that they can take a forged piston? Or no? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reikoshea @ Nov 4 2005, 10:27 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> Not a bad company from what i hear, but will they ship you sleeves...i thought they did only in house work. [/b][/quote] That may be why I couldn't find any part numbers on their web site __________________ 96 4dr Accord h22 1 Seat. and recently added to the garage the Evo IX MR with Vishnu reflash and tuning 270 wheel hp 12.9 @ 106

11-05-2005, 01:38 AM	#13
ferrarikiller Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 112 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 12	So all h22 engines have this frm material? Are any other honda blocks made with this? Where can I find more info on it? I'm curious how they make it. also should I go with the closed deck block for the build I would think it would be stronger __________________ 96 4dr Accord h22 1 Seat. and recently added to the garage the Evo IX MR with Vishnu reflash and tuning 270 wheel hp 12.9 @ 106


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11-03-2005, 03:36 PM	#3
TPR Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 19 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	if you have a h22a4 you have a open deck block 97-01 h22a if it is a 92-96 it is a closed deck, the MID from darton is a T-Sleeve (recommended for the 97-01) 92-96 cannot use a MID due to it being a closed deck. we stock the H22a's sleeved & ready to roll we have 9 in stock we have 2 sleeved shortblocks assembled ready to go. Crower Rods CP Pistons ACL Race Bearings pix available if needed. (513) 942-7020 www.tprcincy.com

11-03-2005, 03:42 PM	#4
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 28 Posts: 49,974 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 529	FRM is the term [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img] it stands for fiber re-enforced metal. Its cost and power / space efficiency are both half way between cast-iron liner and Nikasil. A fiber-based material in the form of cylinder sleeve is first inserted to the die of the block. Melted liquid aluminium is poured into the die and integrate with the fiber sleeve. Then the cylinder wall is machined to the desire bore dimension, leaving only 0.5 mm thickness to the fiber sleeve which covers the cylinder wall. It generates lower friction than iron liner, thus improves rev and power. Moreover, the fiber sleeve reinforces the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced yet maintain mechanical strength. IMO, your best bet is to pull the motor and send the block to golden eagle or Benson's or RSMachines to get the sleeve job done. buying the dartons and then paying a local machine shop to do the work will probably end up costing you more.

11-04-2005, 11:27 AM	#11
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 28 Posts: 49,974 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 529	you CANNOT run a forged piston in FRM sleeves. FRM can also not be re-honed. there are a couple brands of forged pistons that use a special ring that are said to work in frm sleeves. but i have no experiece with this, and couldn't tell you if its truth or BS.

11-05-2005, 07:24 AM	#14
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,883 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	The F20C has FRM sleeves. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

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