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94_gs-r · 01-01-2007, 08:10 PM

if a stock gsr factory says it puts down 175 whp and you add 8k worth of goodies and are only at 190 or so
what is the real dyno hp for a factory gsr? like 130 - 140whp?
just a thought

AHHVTEC · 01-01-2007, 08:27 PM

yea it probly closer to 140-150 at the wheels stock

AHHVTEC · 01-01-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

Typical drive train loss is 15%. 180bhp x .85 = 153whp

If you put $8k into a B18C and only get 190whp, you built your engine very incorrectly.

GSRCRXsi · 01-01-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

Typical drive train loss is 15%. 180bhp x .85 = 153whp

If you put $8k into a B18C and only get 190whp, you built your engine very incorrectly.

and/or spend the money on the wrong things.

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 01:49 AM

im just curious because basically building the bottom to the top of my engine n/a everyone is saying you cant get past 150whp so thats basically only 80hp more then stock or based on true hp output its only around 100hp overstock... hardly seems worth it lol, im doing the build anyhow and eventually i may just put in some low cp pistons and put 20psi to it

GSRCRXsi · 01-02-2007, 02:04 AM

maybe you typed something wrong, but who is telling you you cant get past 150whp with a built engine?

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 02:19 AM

basically what i keep being told is that even if i were at a 2.1 stroker and big ass cams the only way to hit anything over 250 na is with n20
question though., you know those cheesey turbo/supercahrgers they sell on ebay? the electric ones. there supposed to put out 3psi would that help the car a little bit or no? i honestly think it would be kinda funny but if you think about it puttin 3psi in an na motor might be kinda cool since its not a real turbo and just bolts onto your intake

AHHVTEC · 01-02-2007, 02:21 AM

who ver your getting your info stop going there there stupid, and as far as the eabay eletric turbo there junk yea 3 psi would help but its not realy a turbo because it dont compress any air

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 03:06 AM

i know there junk im talkin about when your basically peaked on hp after my build is done. i think it would be kinda funny but also curious to see if it would shave any time off the 1/4..

Exodus · 01-02-2007, 03:24 AM

As far as I know, the "factory" for every manufacturer has only advertised CRANK horsepower for god knows how many years now to help sell their product.

I'm going to assume you are making 190 to the wheels as your probably dynoed on a chassis dynamometer and aren't talking about the results of an engine dyno test.

I'm also going to assume you've already PUT $8 grand into the engine bay and have only gained that marginal amount of power over stock.

First of all, the GSR engine has got probably the worst factory intake manifold available from Honda, or at least one of them. Hopefully, within $8k, you replaced it. Secondly, the GSR head does not flow as well as the B16A or B18C5 head, so, most GSR owners get some kind of port work done, with a new intake and header.

The GSR cams and valvetrain don't suck, but aren't really that fantastic either. The ITR has the best valvetrain, less the exhaust valves which are superseded only by the CTR valvesprings, essentially creating the best "R" head you can have (valvetrain wise and referring best to factory components). So, you either upgrade to R parts with a GSR head, or go aftermarket. Surely, with $8k, you rebuilt the head.

The factory girdle on the GSR is pretty great for what it is. I believe it's the best one from the factory in all of B-Series, so, the bottom end is strong, and inside of $8k, you couldn't have done much but make it somewhat stronger. The compression and the quality of the rest of the factory parts is fairly standard, so you aren't very likely to make it much worse, unless the aftermarket parts you've added were complemented poorly by shoddy machine or rebuild work inside of $8k somewhere.

For $8k, you can fairly well build an engine and turbocharge, or supercharge, or nitrous inject, or some combination of the above. Typically, $8k is straight engine work will afford your at least double you're original horsepower.

Basically, there's almost no way you are either overpaying THAT MUCH to have only gained like 40ish WHP over stock, or bought enough bling parts or inefective nonsense to total $8k. My brain can't handle the idea of having wasted $8k into a B-Series to have only gained that much HP. And THAT, leads me to believe something is either not working properly mechanically, the dyno your roll on SUCKS MAJORTASTIC BALLS, or the car needs to be tuned in a major way, or some combination of those above.

Like, seriously, $8k later in a GSR and you'd have to be Helen Keller with downsyndrome to not have broken 200 at the wheels without something being "incorrect" in some aspects or multiple others to affect your output. I'm tellin ya, something's wrong.

Now, with all of that aside, give us the build as precisely as possible that cost you $8k. This information will be almost invaluable to diagnose your problem.

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 03:32 AM

lol im not sayin i dont make that much whp
im just sayin i know sombody in seattle and he had a jdm b18c with a gsr head and today cams silkroad headers whale penis intake toda cam gears and buddy club spec III cams and was proud of making 197whp,... but thats also whp not crank hp i guess.

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 03:33 AM

my build will between the 220-260 whp range i hope. and if not a 70shot of nos will be at hand

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 03:37 AM

sorry toda cam gears didnt mean to say cams

GSRCRXsi · 01-02-2007, 11:30 AM

your friends setup sounds right. but hes not using big cams either. he could get more power with a better header and some bigger cams. im running a similar steup. the shortblocks are probably identical, but i have a fully ported head, with a good valve job (porflow), skunk2 stg2 cams, and an SMSP header. that got me 215whp

and looking at your build specs from the redline thread, you are probably looking at 190-200whp. and you certainly can get over 250whp NA w/o N2O. you just have to know what to do. hell ive seen a select few make 300+whp on a B-series. stop speculating on what YOU think will make 250, you obviously dont know. look at the "all motor dyno thread" on h-t i posted (in the Integra forum in your thread). look at the people making 250+ and you will see what it takes.

if i was shooting for 250+ this is what i would do:
resleeve/bore to 86mm
lightweight forged 12+:1 cr CP pistons
89mm LS stroke
lots of headwork done by PortFlow, RLZ, Alaniz, or anyone else on par with them
skunk2 pro2 cams
SMSP B20 header

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 06:53 PM

wont buddy club stage 4 cams have higher lift and make more power then skunk2 stage2?
and with pistons that are set at 11:5:1cr with my gsr head wouldnt i make 11:9:1 or 12:0:1cr
i am getting a port job and 3angle valve job hand having it honed and getting ligher and stronger valves springs and retainers.
one other question... why a b20 header?

Exodus · 01-02-2007, 08:09 PM

I wish people would not rely on the "stage" terms for inter-company comparisons...

There is NO SUCH INDUSTRY STANDARDIZATION FOR "STAGES".

Skunk2 Stage 1 anything is not the same thing as JUN Stage 1 yadda yadda... maybe Jun makes an OE replacement, and THEN stage 1, whereas Skunk2's stage 1 widget is THEIR OE replacement, and their stage 2 is JUN's stage 1.

Use stages only for reference for what THAT MANUFACTURER makes.

kthxbye

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 08:47 PM

Skunk2 Stage 2
Int-266 dur. / 12.3mm lift
Exh-262 dur. / 11.8mm lift

Spec IV cams are the ideal street/track camshafts. Spec IV cams increases the maximum lift to 12.3mm to give it an extra edge in high-end power. Specifications: Intake 306 duration, 12.3mm lift, Exhaust 302 duration, 11.8mm lift....

so basically what your saying is that skunk2 stage2 cams are identical to buddyclub spec IV....

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 08:48 PM

same lift but buddy club has a higher duration therefor the buddyclubs would be a better purchas correct?

Exodus · 01-02-2007, 09:53 PM

Right, I'm saying you can't use things like "stages" or "levels" to make product comparisons because the automotive industry has yet to standardize a rating system like that for aftermarket components, nor do I think it ever will.

If more duration is what you need, than the Buddy Club pieces would be the best bet for you, at least in this comparison. I however don't feel as if I'm qualified to tell you something concrete, like yes or no.

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 09:59 PM

oh i know about the stages i have looked at specs basically what im wondering is why people say go with skunk2 stage 2 when it looks like the buddyclup spec IV has more durration... wont they make more power?

GSRCRXsi · 01-02-2007, 10:01 PM

the vtec lobe on the s2s2 and the BC4 is identical. the difference in duration specs is probably a difference in where they were measured. duration at 0mm will be higher then duration at 1mm. however, the BC4 has a larger primary lobe giving a little more midrange power over the s2s2 (assuming same setup). for your setup, BC4's will be fine. but they wont idle as well as the s2s2 due to the slightly larger primary cam profile.

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 10:02 PM

but the idle is nothing that cant be tuned. so the bc4 will make a little more power, there priced about the same

Exodus · 01-02-2007, 10:05 PM

Your idle is mechanically affected though, you can't smooth a loping idle out with tuning. You can, make it idle well and in the correct range, but a lope is a lope, that's mechanical.

94_gs-r · 01-02-2007, 10:07 PM

in the long run its worth it though and it wont cause any future problems because of it will it

GSRCRXsi · 01-02-2007, 10:40 PM

in a drag race you wont notice the difference. you will always be in the vtec lobe. the BC4 is a more RR/autox oriented cam where midrange power is important too.

but no it wont cause any problems. the idle wont be bad, and can be tuned near perfect, yes.

01-01-2007, 08:10 PM	#1
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	gsr whp if a stock gsr factory says it puts down 175 whp and you add 8k worth of goodies and are only at 190 or so what is the real dyno hp for a factory gsr? like 130 - 140whp? just a thought __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 01:49 AM	#5
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	im just curious because basically building the bottom to the top of my engine n/a everyone is saying you cant get past 150whp so thats basically only 80hp more then stock or based on true hp output its only around 100hp overstock... hardly seems worth it lol, im doing the build anyhow and eventually i may just put in some low cp pistons and put 20psi to it __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 02:19 AM	#7
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	basically what i keep being told is that even if i were at a 2.1 stroker and big ass cams the only way to hit anything over 250 na is with n20 question though., you know those cheesey turbo/supercahrgers they sell on ebay? the electric ones. there supposed to put out 3psi would that help the car a little bit or no? i honestly think it would be kinda funny but if you think about it puttin 3psi in an na motor might be kinda cool since its not a real turbo and just bolts onto your intake __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 03:06 AM	#9
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	i know there junk im talkin about when your basically peaked on hp after my build is done. i think it would be kinda funny but also curious to see if it would shave any time off the 1/4.. __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 03:32 AM	#11
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	lol im not sayin i dont make that much whp im just sayin i know sombody in seattle and he had a jdm b18c with a gsr head and today cams silkroad headers whale penis intake toda cam gears and buddy club spec III cams and was proud of making 197whp,... but thats also whp not crank hp i guess. __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/


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01-01-2007, 08:27 PM	#2
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 29 Posts: 11,356 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 268	yea it probly closer to 140-150 at the wheels stock

01-02-2007, 02:21 AM	#8
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 29 Posts: 11,356 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 268	who ver your getting your info stop going there there stupid, and as far as the eabay eletric turbo there junk yea 3 psi would help but its not realy a turbo because it dont compress any air

01-02-2007, 03:24 AM	#10
Exodus Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 137 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: '91 Civic hatch DX Rep Power: 9	As far as I know, the "factory" for every manufacturer has only advertised CRANK horsepower for god knows how many years now to help sell their product. I'm going to assume you are making 190 to the wheels as your probably dynoed on a chassis dynamometer and aren't talking about the results of an engine dyno test. I'm also going to assume you've already PUT $8 grand into the engine bay and have only gained that marginal amount of power over stock. First of all, the GSR engine has got probably the worst factory intake manifold available from Honda, or at least one of them. Hopefully, within $8k, you replaced it. Secondly, the GSR head does not flow as well as the B16A or B18C5 head, so, most GSR owners get some kind of port work done, with a new intake and header. The GSR cams and valvetrain don't suck, but aren't really that fantastic either. The ITR has the best valvetrain, less the exhaust valves which are superseded only by the CTR valvesprings, essentially creating the best "R" head you can have (valvetrain wise and referring best to factory components). So, you either upgrade to R parts with a GSR head, or go aftermarket. Surely, with $8k, you rebuilt the head. The factory girdle on the GSR is pretty great for what it is. I believe it's the best one from the factory in all of B-Series, so, the bottom end is strong, and inside of $8k, you couldn't have done much but make it somewhat stronger. The compression and the quality of the rest of the factory parts is fairly standard, so you aren't very likely to make it much worse, unless the aftermarket parts you've added were complemented poorly by shoddy machine or rebuild work inside of $8k somewhere. For $8k, you can fairly well build an engine and turbocharge, or supercharge, or nitrous inject, or some combination of the above. Typically, $8k is straight engine work will afford your at least double you're original horsepower. Basically, there's almost no way you are either overpaying THAT MUCH to have only gained like 40ish WHP over stock, or bought enough bling parts or inefective nonsense to total $8k. My brain can't handle the idea of having wasted $8k into a B-Series to have only gained that much HP. And THAT, leads me to believe something is either not working properly mechanically, the dyno your roll on SUCKS MAJORTASTIC BALLS, or the car needs to be tuned in a major way, or some combination of those above. Like, seriously, $8k later in a GSR and you'd have to be Helen Keller with downsyndrome to not have broken 200 at the wheels without something being "incorrect" in some aspects or multiple others to affect your output. I'm tellin ya, something's wrong. Now, with all of that aside, give us the build as precisely as possible that cost you $8k. This information will be almost invaluable to diagnose your problem.

01-02-2007, 03:33 AM	#12
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	my build will between the 220-260 whp range i hope. and if not a 70shot of nos will be at hand __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 03:37 AM	#13
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	sorry toda cam gears didnt mean to say cams __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 06:53 PM	#15
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	wont buddy club stage 4 cams have higher lift and make more power then skunk2 stage2? and with pistons that are set at 11:5:1cr with my gsr head wouldnt i make 11:9:1 or 12:0:1cr i am getting a port job and 3angle valve job hand having it honed and getting ligher and stronger valves springs and retainers. one other question... why a b20 header? __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 08:09 PM	#16
Exodus Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 137 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: '91 Civic hatch DX Rep Power: 9	I wish people would not rely on the "stage" terms for inter-company comparisons... There is NO SUCH INDUSTRY STANDARDIZATION FOR "STAGES". Skunk2 Stage 1 anything is not the same thing as JUN Stage 1 yadda yadda... maybe Jun makes an OE replacement, and THEN stage 1, whereas Skunk2's stage 1 widget is THEIR OE replacement, and their stage 2 is JUN's stage 1. Use stages only for reference for what THAT MANUFACTURER makes. kthxbye

01-02-2007, 08:47 PM	#17
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	Skunk2 Stage 2 Int-266 dur. / 12.3mm lift Exh-262 dur. / 11.8mm lift Spec IV cams are the ideal street/track camshafts. Spec IV cams increases the maximum lift to 12.3mm to give it an extra edge in high-end power. Specifications: Intake 306 duration, 12.3mm lift, Exhaust 302 duration, 11.8mm lift.... so basically what your saying is that skunk2 stage2 cams are identical to buddyclub spec IV.... __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 08:48 PM	#18
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	same lift but buddy club has a higher duration therefor the buddyclubs would be a better purchas correct? __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 09:53 PM	#19
Exodus Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 137 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: '91 Civic hatch DX Rep Power: 9	Right, I'm saying you can't use things like "stages" or "levels" to make product comparisons because the automotive industry has yet to standardize a rating system like that for aftermarket components, nor do I think it ever will. If more duration is what you need, than the Buddy Club pieces would be the best bet for you, at least in this comparison. I however don't feel as if I'm qualified to tell you something concrete, like yes or no.

01-02-2007, 09:59 PM	#20
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	oh i know about the stages i have looked at specs basically what im wondering is why people say go with skunk2 stage 2 when it looks like the buddyclup spec IV has more durration... wont they make more power? __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 10:02 PM	#22
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	but the idle is nothing that cant be tuned. so the bc4 will make a little more power, there priced about the same __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

01-02-2007, 10:05 PM	#23
Exodus Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 137 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: '91 Civic hatch DX Rep Power: 9	Your idle is mechanically affected though, you can't smooth a loping idle out with tuning. You can, make it idle well and in the correct range, but a lope is a lope, that's mechanical.

01-02-2007, 10:07 PM	#24
94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A?? Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 313 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 94 inegra gsr Rep Power: 11	in the long run its worth it though and it wont cause any future problems because of it will it __________________ buy my motor!!! check out link. http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...ression-93212/

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