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CRXSI91 · 02-24-2005, 09:06 PM

a good friend of mine (that has done way too many swaps...hes had 5 ef's 2 of them with ls turbo and ls vtec turbo,one with h22,and the other two with b16 and gsr) told me not to do ls vtec turbo..but to just PnP the head,do a valve job,and a whole valvetrain upgrade (springs,retainers,Cams,etc.) and boost it...he says ls vtec turbo causes too many problems with tuning on the dyno....now i know,LOTS of people have done ls vtec turbo,and have been fine..and lots of people say the same thing over and over :

"ls head cant flow for shit"
"u cant get an ls head to flow as good as a b16 or gsr head"

i understand that..but what about the people that do get ls heads to flow good..like the guy who made 400 whp on a LS motor..no vtec....i mean i want ls vtec as much as everyone else...but doin more and more research....its like..first i gotta get the head..then i gotta get the "ls vtec" conversion kit (That bullshit oil line or whatever they sell on these performance websites now)...then u gotta get a conversion harness for your ecu....then wiring for vtec...i still to do this day cant figure out if u can use the wiring off the LS motor to run a VTEC head or do you need a Vtec wiring harness...so im saying..if im going turbo ANYWAY...is ls vtec turbo REALLY necessary?? i want everyone's opinion.

david_jones001 · 02-24-2005, 09:09 PM

ls head is worth a handful of shit, i whouldnt even try to make it flow good, id go with ls vtec turbo anyday, just my 2 cents

CRXSI91 · 02-24-2005, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by david_jones001@Feb 24 2005, 09:09 PM
ls head is worth a handful of shit, i whouldnt even try to make it flow good, id go with ls vtec turbo anyday, just my 2 cents

Quoted post

hey,i left u a pm,i need your help...reply to it if u can.

lude9593 · 02-24-2005, 09:15 PM

i'd just go ls turbo. clean it up real nice and it should flow fine.

hybrid_b18 · 02-24-2005, 09:39 PM

yea man ive heard the same from a friend of mine that does dyno tuning on everthing under the sun. A ported Ls head will indead flow the same as a vtec head but with all the money you spend trying to make the head flow its better to go with a full gsr or Si and upgrade that.

Ls vtec motors do have a lot of problems but its all about tuning. dont upgrade too fast and tooo big. know your limits and take it a step at a time and keep that thing tued with each upgrade.

adnoh · 02-25-2005, 03:00 PM

LS heads are shit and will not flow better than vtec heads..period.

It is worth it to go the LS/VTEC route. The extra parts needed to do the swap are minimal. I believe you must get the wiring harness and ecu of the VTEC head you get.....or just get a chipped P28 like everyone else. If your car is not wired for VTEC, then run a wire, and one for the knock sensor.....not rocket science. You said you'll be going turbo so keep compression low.

And my best piece of advice.......If the person tuning your car is having "real problems" with an LS/VTEC turbo setup.....go somewhere else. It's not like that engine setup is brand new.

pissedoffsol · 02-25-2005, 03:58 PM

tuning a boosted vtec motor is not a big deal. if your buddy has a hard time with it, he sucks as a tuner. If your buddy goes to someone else to tune, his buddy sucks as a tuner.

IMO, use the 1000 bucks you'd spend on getting a vtec head, valve train, ecu, and so forth, and sleeve the block and put fordged internals in it instead.

a SOLID bottom end is the most important part of a buildup. a head is easy to change out- a block, you basically have to do a swap again.

do the block
get some good fuel management on there
get a real turbo on there like a gt30/40R

tune it
make 450whp on your stock LS head
tell your buddy to fuck off :P

beerbongskickass · 02-25-2005, 04:03 PM

You will probably see a good 50whp gain going with a LS/Vtec turbo over a straight LS turbo, so I don't see any reason not to go with the vtec head. Build it properly and you will be fine. It shouldn't be any "harder" to tune, but you will have to tune the hi and lo cam maps, unlike a non-vtec motor, which only has one map to tune. You will be able to rev higher with the vtec head, which will also make it a lot more fun to drive. As everybody else has said the vtec heads are good right out of the factory, it's going to take a lot of money and work to get an LS head close to as good as a stock vtec head.

CRXSI91 · 02-27-2005, 09:09 AM

iight,thanks for all the replies...ive decided to do Ls vtec turbo...slap a GSR head up there..but it wont be for a while..cus before the head will even SEE the engine bay..its gonna get Skunk 2 stage 2 cams,valve springs,retainers,Probably a 3 angle valve job,and a PnP..im making sure that head will flow its ass off.

CRXSI91 · 02-27-2005, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Feb 25 2005, 03:58 PM

tell your buddy to fuck off :P

Quoted post

i dont think im gonna do that..he has a 6 foot trophy in his room from one of those EF's he built..cus he ran 10 or 11 seconds with it,and won "fastest crx on the east coast" at Dinwiddie racing track in VA...but thanks for the advice on building up the ls motor.

driver1 · 02-27-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CRXSI91+Feb 27 2005, 09:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CRXSI91 @ Feb 27 2005, 09:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-pissedoffsol@Feb 25 2005, 03:58 PM

tell your buddy to fuck off :P

Quoted post

i dont think im gonna do that..he has a 6 foot trophy in his room from one of those EF's he built..cus he ran 10 or 11 seconds with it,and won "fastest crx on the east coast" at Dinwiddie racing track in VA...but thanks for the advice on building up the ls motor.

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

if this is the case he should not be telling you that ls/vtec turbo setups cause tuning problems. A little harder to tune? yes. But nothing "big problem" wise that would indefinately make it not worth it to get the vtec head.

92civicb18b1 · 02-27-2005, 09:42 AM

thats not the fastest CRX on the east coast.

But LSvtec turbo is a good choice.

beerbongskickass · 02-28-2005, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CRXSI91@Feb 27 2005, 09:09 AM
iight,thanks for all the replies...ive decided to do Ls vtec turbo...slap a GSR head up there..but it wont be for a while..cus before the head will even SEE the engine bay..its gonna get Skunk 2 stage 2 cams,valve springs,retainers,Probably a 3 angle valve job,and a PnP..im making sure that head will flow its ass off.

Quoted post

How much horsepower are you going for? Unless your going for BIG numbers I wouldn't do anything to the head. If you are going for big numbers, the only things I would recommend is upgrading are the valve springs, valves, and retainers. With high horsepower engines these are essential. The stock GSR cams will be fine and don't bother doing any porting to the head.

CRXSI91 · 02-28-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by beerbongskickass+Feb 28 2005, 03:09 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(beerbongskic kass @ Feb 28 2005, 03:09 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-CRXSI91@Feb 27 2005, 09:09 AM
iight,thanks for all the replies...ive decided to do Ls vtec turbo...slap a GSR head up there..but it wont be for a while..cus before the head will even SEE the engine bay..its gonna get Skunk 2 stage 2 cams,valve springs,retainers,Probably a 3 angle valve job,and a PnP..im making sure that head will flow its ass off.

Quoted post

How much horsepower are you going for? Unless your going for BIG numbers I wouldn't do anything to the head. If you are going for big numbers, the only things I would recommend is upgrading are the valve springs, valves, and retainers. With high horsepower engines these are essential. The stock GSR cams will be fine and don't bother doing any porting to the head.

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

i am going for big numbers..if i wasnt..i would keep the stock ls head up there....but im going for the 300 to 400 whp range...yes,i know,horsepower aint everything,but i dont really have a set number for torque...i just know that by the time im done with my rex,i wanna be able to stomp corvettes,or atleast hang with them..thats why i want to build the head...i mean i want to pnp,but then again,i dont,id rather just throw springs,retainers,valves,and cams, in there,and slap it on...

brian11to1 · 02-28-2005, 02:13 PM

LS turbo is tight. You can make an LS head flow well... its just mroe intense labor than just using a B16 head.

beerbongskickass · 02-28-2005, 06:48 PM

I wouldn't really consider 300-400 horsepower big numbers. I was thinking more like 500+ horsepower. There is no need to port the head and the stock GSR cams work great for boost, so save your money. I would just use the stock head. Some forged rods/pistons in your bottom end with a nice turbo kit and you will get 300-400 horsepower easy... and yes you will stomp vettes.

SlushboxTeggy · 02-28-2005, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beerbongskickass@Feb 28 2005, 06:48 PM
I wouldn't really consider 300-400 horsepower big numbers. I was thinking more like 500+ horsepower. There is no need to port the head and the stock GSR cams work great for boost, so save your money. I would just use the stock head. Some forged rods/pistons in your bottom end with a nice turbo kit and you will get 300-400 horsepower easy... and yes you will stomp vettes.

Quoted post

i agree. i think this is the first time i all out agreed with beerbongskickass, but anyway the gsr cams will work great for what your doing. plus if you go bigger than gsr cams your going to have to worry about your valve clearance. work the bottom end, sleeves or rods/pistons or both.

pissedoffsol · 03-01-2005, 12:42 PM

skunk2 S2 cams are sooo not turbo profile

beerbongskickass · 03-01-2005, 05:04 PM

Here are just a few examples...

620whp... grs cams w/headwork... http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1807
515whp... bone stock gsr head... http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=462
435whp... bone stock gsr head... http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1110

SlushboxTeggy · 03-02-2005, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by beerbongskickass@Mar 1 2005, 05:04 PM
Here are just a few examples...

620whp... grs cams w/headwork... http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1807
515whp... bone stock gsr head... http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=462
435whp... bone stock gsr head... http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1110

Quoted post

damn. im impressed

MikeBergy · 03-02-2005, 05:44 AM

What are you looking to do with the car? unless you are just doing the vtec to say "I got vtec yo!" I'd say that the LS head will meet any power requirements you may need for the street. Numbers like 625 whp are excessive for a street car. You can easily make 350 whp on an LS turbo. If you have a good reason for making more than that, I'd like to hear it. I'd take the 3-500 that you would use to buy a vtec head, and use that money toward building the bottom end. If you have big pockets, do whatever you want. There really aren't any cons to going vtec, just costs more down the road. LS motors are a dime a dozen, and if you tear up a head, you can just go buy another one for like 100 bucks. vtec heads cost 3-4 times that much. Of course there are drawbacks to using an LS head: it's the price you pay for using a cheap head; but they work, and I say that you are fooling yourself if you think that the LS will not make enough power for you.

CRXSI91 · 03-02-2005, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by beerbongskickass@Feb 28 2005, 06:48 PM
I wouldn't really consider 300-400 horsepower big numbers. I was thinking more like 500+ horsepower. There is no need to port the head and the stock GSR cams work great for boost, so save your money. I would just use the stock head. Some forged rods/pistons in your bottom end with a nice turbo kit and you will get 300-400 horsepower easy... and yes you will stomp vettes.

Quoted post

well i understand that we all see 400 and 500 horsepower hondas a lot now..but just cus u see them on a video,and can give me links to some rare cases doesnt mean that 300 and 400 horsepower numbers isnt "big numbers" on a damn honda....the only time those numbers would look right,is on a s2000,a nsx, some other car MADE for performance..a crx was not made for perfomance..neither was your car.but you managed to get 230 to the wheels out of it..which would prolly mean your around 250 or higher.....300 and 400 horsepower are BIG numbers on a economical car.

now i can agree with you about not porting the head..but id like to squeeze as much power as i can out of the motor..so i think getting upgraded cams,would help...i understand,your car is turbod..and you probably have more experience than me with forced induction and tuning...but see,im not trying to branch off,do something different,and blow my motor 5 times before getting it right..im just trying to follow all the research ive been doing,and also use some guidance from you guys up here,to build a nice drag/street car...i mean at times..if i just said fuck it..and started getting ready for boost it would be nice..just keeping the ls head up there..and building it up..but then again,i think about the work i would have to do to get the head to flow...its the same amount or more than getting a vtec head...a lot of people are confusing me.

02-24-2005, 09:06 PM	#1
CRXSI91 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 386 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 12	a good friend of mine (that has done way too many swaps...hes had 5 ef's 2 of them with ls turbo and ls vtec turbo,one with h22,and the other two with b16 and gsr) told me not to do ls vtec turbo..but to just PnP the head,do a valve job,and a whole valvetrain upgrade (springs,retainers,Cams,etc.) and boost it...he says ls vtec turbo causes too many problems with tuning on the dyno....now i know,LOTS of people have done ls vtec turbo,and have been fine..and lots of people say the same thing over and over : "ls head cant flow for shit" "u cant get an ls head to flow as good as a b16 or gsr head" i understand that..but what about the people that do get ls heads to flow good..like the guy who made 400 whp on a LS motor..no vtec....i mean i want ls vtec as much as everyone else...but doin more and more research....its like..first i gotta get the head..then i gotta get the "ls vtec" conversion kit (That bullshit oil line or whatever they sell on these performance websites now)...then u gotta get a conversion harness for your ecu....then wiring for vtec...i still to do this day cant figure out if u can use the wiring off the LS motor to run a VTEC head or do you need a Vtec wiring harness...so im saying..if im going turbo ANYWAY...is ls vtec turbo REALLY necessary?? i want everyone's opinion. __________________ 91 Crx Si : Mini me swap - SOLD. 91 Crx HF: N/A LS - SOLD. 93 Cx hatch : LS turbo - SOLD. 94 Integra RS - Bone stock. Soon to be boostin....

02-24-2005, 09:09 PM	#2
david_jones001 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 340 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 12	ls head is worth a handful of shit, i whouldnt even try to make it flow good, id go with ls vtec turbo anyday, just my 2 cents __________________ 92 civic cx D16z6 Gsr suspenstion Garrett t3 turbo, 10 PSI, Uberdata, BOOSTIN BITCHS

02-24-2005, 09:15 PM	#4
lude9593 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mt. Pleasant, NC Posts: 299 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 11	i'd just go ls turbo. clean it up real nice and it should flow fine. __________________ '95 Prelude SE AEM Intake, DC Sports Header & Cat-back, Exedy Stage 1 clutch, Fidanza lightweight flywheel. 9.734 @ 72.913 MPH (1/8th)

02-24-2005, 09:39 PM	#5
hybrid_b18 crew chief Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Burnsville, MINNESNOWTA Age: 25 Posts: 254 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: turbo d16-lexus sc3-88celica st Rep Power: 13	yea man ive heard the same from a friend of mine that does dyno tuning on everthing under the sun. A ported Ls head will indead flow the same as a vtec head but with all the money you spend trying to make the head flow its better to go with a full gsr or Si and upgrade that. Ls vtec motors do have a lot of problems but its all about tuning. dont upgrade too fast and tooo big. know your limits and take it a step at a time and keep that thing tued with each upgrade. __________________ www.rs-motors.net www.boostfactory.com RSmotors crew chief

02-25-2005, 03:00 PM	#6
adnoh Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ontario Age: 28 Posts: 1,017 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 20	LS heads are shit and will not flow better than vtec heads..period. It is worth it to go the LS/VTEC route. The extra parts needed to do the swap are minimal. I believe you must get the wiring harness and ecu of the VTEC head you get.....or just get a chipped P28 like everyone else. If your car is not wired for VTEC, then run a wire, and one for the knock sensor.....not rocket science. You said you'll be going turbo so keep compression low. And my best piece of advice.......If the person tuning your car is having "real problems" with an LS/VTEC turbo setup.....go somewhere else. It's not like that engine setup is brand new. __________________ 1998 Acura Integra Type R #864


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02-25-2005, 03:58 PM	#7
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 28 Posts: 49,974 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 529	tuning a boosted vtec motor is not a big deal. if your buddy has a hard time with it, he sucks as a tuner. If your buddy goes to someone else to tune, his buddy sucks as a tuner. IMO, use the 1000 bucks you'd spend on getting a vtec head, valve train, ecu, and so forth, and sleeve the block and put fordged internals in it instead. a SOLID bottom end is the most important part of a buildup. a head is easy to change out- a block, you basically have to do a swap again. do the block get some good fuel management on there get a real turbo on there like a gt30/40R tune it make 450whp on your stock LS head tell your buddy to fuck off :P

02-25-2005, 04:03 PM	#8
beerbongskickass Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Longview WA Posts: 497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 14	You will probably see a good 50whp gain going with a LS/Vtec turbo over a straight LS turbo, so I don't see any reason not to go with the vtec head. Build it properly and you will be fine. It shouldn't be any "harder" to tune, but you will have to tune the hi and lo cam maps, unlike a non-vtec motor, which only has one map to tune. You will be able to rev higher with the vtec head, which will also make it a lot more fun to drive. As everybody else has said the vtec heads are good right out of the factory, it's going to take a lot of money and work to get an LS head close to as good as a stock vtec head. __________________ Turbocharged 95 Civic w/stock D16Z6 - 230whp/208wtq thanks to www.HomeMadeTurbo.com and uberdata

02-27-2005, 09:09 AM	#9
CRXSI91 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 386 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 12	iight,thanks for all the replies...ive decided to do Ls vtec turbo...slap a GSR head up there..but it wont be for a while..cus before the head will even SEE the engine bay..its gonna get Skunk 2 stage 2 cams,valve springs,retainers,Probably a 3 angle valve job,and a PnP..im making sure that head will flow its ass off. __________________ 91 Crx Si : Mini me swap - SOLD. 91 Crx HF: N/A LS - SOLD. 93 Cx hatch : LS turbo - SOLD. 94 Integra RS - Bone stock. Soon to be boostin....

02-27-2005, 09:42 AM	#12
92civicb18b1 The Trisexual Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The asshole of the USA, New Jersey Age: 21 Posts: 8,859 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2007 Civic, 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Rep Power: 121	thats not the fastest CRX on the east coast. But LSvtec turbo is a good choice. __________________ DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH QUESTIONS!!! Current Rides 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee =I love this truck 2007 Civic =Not sure what the future holds for this Previous 1992 Civic DX Hatch = 1994 B18B1 Turbo Rebuilt Garrett .60/.48 T3, log style mani and DIY downpipe, DSM 440's, kteller IC piping, JRC Intercooler, Home Depot style oil lines, HKS BOV, Crome Tuned, 253whp 1994 Civic VX Hatch, 1992 b18a1 swap 1993 Civic CX Hatch, 2000 B18b1

02-28-2005, 02:13 PM	#15
brian11to1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,902 iTrader: 2 / 100% Rep Power: 108	LS turbo is tight. You can make an LS head flow well... its just mroe intense labor than just using a B16 head. __________________ 90 Integra Sedan B20B - BROKEN LSVTEC - BROKEN PMTR - running strong! I DO NOT answer tech questions via PM. Use the forums!!!

02-28-2005, 06:48 PM	#16
beerbongskickass Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Longview WA Posts: 497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 14	I wouldn't really consider 300-400 horsepower big numbers. I was thinking more like 500+ horsepower. There is no need to port the head and the stock GSR cams work great for boost, so save your money. I would just use the stock head. Some forged rods/pistons in your bottom end with a nice turbo kit and you will get 300-400 horsepower easy... and yes you will stomp vettes. __________________ Turbocharged 95 Civic w/stock D16Z6 - 230whp/208wtq thanks to www.HomeMadeTurbo.com and uberdata

03-01-2005, 12:42 PM	#18
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 28 Posts: 49,974 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 529	skunk2 S2 cams are sooo not turbo profile

03-01-2005, 05:04 PM	#19
beerbongskickass Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Longview WA Posts: 497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 14	Here are just a few examples... 620whp... grs cams w/headwork... http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1807 515whp... bone stock gsr head... http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=462 435whp... bone stock gsr head... http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1110 __________________ Turbocharged 95 Civic w/stock D16Z6 - 230whp/208wtq thanks to www.HomeMadeTurbo.com and uberdata

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LS turbo vs. LS vtec turbo : pros and cons