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03-02-2005, 06:24 PM
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#26 |
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Senior Member
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I just don't think it would be worth it to do anything to your head for your power goals. I gave you those links to show you with the right setup you can make the stock head work really well. A nice set of forged rods/pistons with a stock GSR head should be all you need. Aftermarket cams, springs, retainers, and valves will be very expensive... and if you just want a little extra power, turn the boost up. Here are a couple more articles you might want to read.
http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1623 http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1744 __________________
Turbocharged 95 Civic w/stock D16Z6 - 230whp/208wtq thanks to www.HomeMadeTurbo.com and uberdata |
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03-02-2005, 08:16 PM
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#27 |
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Senior Member
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ok,u made your point,i understand now...uppin.
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91 Crx Si : Mini me swap - SOLD. 91 Crx HF: N/A LS - SOLD. 93 Cx hatch : LS turbo - SOLD. 94 Integra RS - Bone stock. Soon to be boostin.... |
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03-02-2005, 08:19 PM
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#28 |
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Senior Member
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ok,another question..what about a b16 head...its cheaper,and i could get it a lot faster...even though i really dont like b16's,its a little bit better than a stock ls head.
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91 Crx Si : Mini me swap - SOLD. 91 Crx HF: N/A LS - SOLD. 93 Cx hatch : LS turbo - SOLD. 94 Integra RS - Bone stock. Soon to be boostin.... |
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03-02-2005, 08:21 PM
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#29 | |
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Senior Member
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Quote:
ohh yea i forgot..what about a block guard...or resleeving the block..i mean i want to run a normal sized turbo,and boost a normal amount...i dont want a t67 or some crazy shit and be boosting like 8 psi,and making 300 hp...so are forged pistons and rods going to just be "enough" ?? __________________
91 Crx Si : Mini me swap - SOLD. 91 Crx HF: N/A LS - SOLD. 93 Cx hatch : LS turbo - SOLD. 94 Integra RS - Bone stock. Soon to be boostin.... |
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03-02-2005, 09:43 PM
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#30 |
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Senior Member
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Just forged rods/pistons will be fine. There is no need for a block guard or sleeves.
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Turbocharged 95 Civic w/stock D16Z6 - 230whp/208wtq thanks to www.HomeMadeTurbo.com and uberdata |
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03-03-2005, 07:30 AM
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#31 | |
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Senior Member
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Quote:
i also always wondered..how do people go about picking pistons..how do they just "know" what compression they want to run?? i mean from what i see,most people run 9:1...but some people crank the boost way up and run like 8 or some shit... __________________
91 Crx Si : Mini me swap - SOLD. 91 Crx HF: N/A LS - SOLD. 93 Cx hatch : LS turbo - SOLD. 94 Integra RS - Bone stock. Soon to be boostin.... |
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03-03-2005, 09:11 AM
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#32 | |
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Senior Member
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Quote:
A B16A head flows better than a GSR head, so that should have been your top choice anyways. Keep in mind, the head on a B18C Spec R is just a ported head from a B16A, not a GSR. B16A Head>GSR Head Also, way less money. And not to mention you could use a first generation B16 head as well....so even less money. And bro...there's no reason not to like the B16A engine....drop one in a hatch and a GSR in another and you will be hard pressed to tell which car is which. I should know, I've had both  __________________
1998 Acura Integra Type R #864 |
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03-03-2005, 09:17 AM
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#33 | |
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Senior Member
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Quote:
A B16A head flows better than a GSR head, so that should have been your top choice anyways. Keep in mind, the head on a B18C Spec R is just a ported head from a B16A, not a GSR. B16A Head>GSR Head Also, way less money. And not to mention you could use a first generation B16 head as well....so even less money. And bro...there's no reason not to like the B16A engine....drop one in a hatch and a GSR in another and you will be hard pressed to tell which car is which. I should know, I've had both [/b][/quote] well cant argue with you there..but question is..why do people say gsr cams are better for turbo???....i mean the thing with a gsr and b16 head is..when u go to turbo..once u put down the numbers..its not gonna matter which head you have..big numbers is big numbers...thats how i feel..i feel that if my car is gonna be turbo...as long as i have a b16 or b18 vtec head...that when i go to turbo,its not gonna matter which one i had in the end,because the turbo and the head are gonna end up working together anyway..i mean i could understand if i was going NA..cus the head really matters then...but going with forced induction,as long as the head flows good,then my setup should run smooth (with fuel,ignition,and tuning of course)... so the question being..why does the b16 head flow better than a gsr?? someone else told me that the gsr head has better combustion,and the cams are better for FI....so correct him if hes wrong. __________________
91 Crx Si : Mini me swap - SOLD. 91 Crx HF: N/A LS - SOLD. 93 Cx hatch : LS turbo - SOLD. 94 Integra RS - Bone stock. Soon to be boostin.... |
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03-03-2005, 12:11 PM
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#34 |
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Senior Member
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[/quote]
well cant argue with you there..but question is..why do people say gsr cams are better for turbo???....i mean the thing with a gsr and b16 head is..when u go to turbo..once u put down the numbers..its not gonna matter which head you have..big numbers is big numbers...thats how i feel..i feel that if my car is gonna be turbo...as long as i have a b16 or b18 vtec head...that when i go to turbo,its not gonna matter which one i had in the end,because the turbo and the head are gonna end up working together anyway..i mean i could understand if i was going NA..cus the head really matters then...but going with forced induction,as long as the head flows good,then my setup should run smooth (with fuel,ignition,and tuning of course)... so the question being..why does the b16 head flow better than a gsr?? someone else told me that the gsr head has better combustion,and the cams are better for FI....so correct him if hes wrong. [/quote] Well, to completely honest with you bro, the diffrence between the flow characteristics of the GSR and SiR heads are minimal....maybe almost non-existant. But IMO, spending more hard earned $ on a GSR head for your application just doesn't make any sence. You can pick up an SiR head for about half the price and have the exact same performance (maybe even better in some cases) than the GSR. Here is a link of some pics of GSR, SiR, And Type R heads so you can see the subtle diffrences between them. Heads In terms of cams, for your setup, the GSR cams will work perfectly fine. There are plenty of 500hp+ cars running stock GSR cams. They are better for turbo applications for many reasons including their power curve being geared more towards low and mid-range power...unlike SiR cams which are designed for High-revs. If you can make your turbo more efficient at a lower RPM, then the better off you'll be. So for you, an ideal setup would be a B16A head with GSR cams. All Honda, easy on the wallet. R __________________
1998 Acura Integra Type R #864 |
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03-03-2005, 04:29 PM
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#35 | |
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Senior Member
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Quote:
http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=19 __________________
Turbocharged 95 Civic w/stock D16Z6 - 230whp/208wtq thanks to www.HomeMadeTurbo.com and uberdata |
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03-03-2005, 06:32 PM
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#36 |
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Senior Member
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that was a real good article..i understand what compression i want to run now...
but to adnoh..i guess your right..so i guess im lookin for a b16 head now __________________
91 Crx Si : Mini me swap - SOLD. 91 Crx HF: N/A LS - SOLD. 93 Cx hatch : LS turbo - SOLD. 94 Integra RS - Bone stock. Soon to be boostin.... |
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03-04-2005, 05:45 AM
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#37 | |
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Blah blah blah....
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Central Coast, CALI
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The gsr head has significant improvements in flow over the b16 head. The ports are reworked extensively to allow the air to flow more straight into and out of the chamber. Whoever said that a b16 head was a better head needs to go back and examine the port shapes and combustion chambers for the two heads. The only thing you have to work around with the gsr head is the IM. It's almost required that you get an aftermarket one. But this matters mostly for NA applications, and for your case, the bottlenecking at the intake is your major concern. So either vtec head will suit you. Regarding compression, it is ultimately the dynamic compression of the motor that you want to be worried about. A high static CR is going to yield you higher efficiency and better responsiveness, but it will also make your engine more sensitive to small changes in tuning, i.e. ignition and fuel, egt's, etc. and so must be tuned to a higher accuracy, or the engine will not run properly. Running a lower static CR will allow you to have a "sloppier" tune, and so is more forgiving. Make sure you have a damn good tuner who knows what he is doing if you are going to run higher compression pistons.
__________________
-1991 Integra, lots of goodies in an otherwise stock looking motorp; ITR front brakes. -Xenocron programmable ecu w/datalogging port, LM-1 wideband, and Moates Ostrich are tuning tools of choice. RIP 2005 Red Yamaha R6 www.m24x.com - Rocket Motorsports: For more technical engine discussions... Quote:
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03-04-2005, 10:19 AM
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#38 | |
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Senior Member
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Quote:
I know dude....I corrected myself on that one. But seriously, the flow characteristics of both heads are so minimal that it's barely noticible anyways. So IMO, if I can hit the same goals having spent half the $$$, then I'll go that way. Maybe I'm just blind, but after examining both heads, the ports look almost identical except for the Intake port which looks a tad restrictive on the GSR...just like you said. But true, for an FI application, either head will be ok. And with work, both heads can accomplish the same goals. R __________________
1998 Acura Integra Type R #864 |
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03-05-2005, 02:03 AM
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#40 | ||
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Blah blah blah....
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Central Coast, CALI
Age: 28
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Quote:
I know dude....I corrected myself on that one. But seriously, the flow characteristics of both heads are so minimal that it's barely noticible anyways. So IMO, if I can hit the same goals having spent half the $$$, then I'll go that way. Maybe I'm just blind, but after examining both heads, the ports look almost identical except for the Intake port which looks a tad restrictive on the GSR...just like you said. But true, for an FI application, either head will be ok. And with work, both heads can accomplish the same goals. R [/b][/quote]  I would definitely spend less dough on a b16a head if I could yield the same performance. We're on the same page, just thought I'd chime in. Didn't see that you corrected yourself, my bad. As for the ports the gsr ports have a WAY straighter shot into the chamber. Less bends = greater pressure recovery = less flow loss throught the head. Brian - yeah, stock for stock, the gsr is built for midrange more so than for up top, and for the b16a vice versa (b16a has slightly smaller ports, so the dynamic pressure is higher up top on a b16a than a gsr). But the gsr head is a much better head to start out with if you plan on playing with the ports somewhere down the line, hence why it costs more to get one. I would think midrange would be where you would want your peak power anyway with a turbo setup, but I guess that is just one of a jillion ways to make power. __________________
-1991 Integra, lots of goodies in an otherwise stock looking motorp; ITR front brakes. -Xenocron programmable ecu w/datalogging port, LM-1 wideband, and Moates Ostrich are tuning tools of choice. RIP 2005 Red Yamaha R6 www.m24x.com - Rocket Motorsports: For more technical engine discussions... Quote:
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03-05-2005, 02:06 AM
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#41 | ||
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Blah blah blah....
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Central Coast, CALI
Age: 28
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Quote:
__________________
-1991 Integra, lots of goodies in an otherwise stock looking motorp; ITR front brakes. -Xenocron programmable ecu w/datalogging port, LM-1 wideband, and Moates Ostrich are tuning tools of choice. RIP 2005 Red Yamaha R6 www.m24x.com - Rocket Motorsports: For more technical engine discussions... Quote:
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03-05-2005, 07:57 AM
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#42 |
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Senior Member
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just one more question...
i was told by someone up here (not questioning their knowledge)...that in order to make the ls vtec head swap RELIABLE..i would need to get a b16 timing belt,b16 water pump,b16 oil pump,and then a b18a head gasket..yes,i want my swap to be reliable,but i priced all of that at advance,and its about 300$ all together..excluding the oil pump,i would have to get that somewhere else...so i ask...should i start rounding up that stuff or not? __________________
91 Crx Si : Mini me swap - SOLD. 91 Crx HF: N/A LS - SOLD. 93 Cx hatch : LS turbo - SOLD. 94 Integra RS - Bone stock. Soon to be boostin.... |
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03-07-2005, 10:51 AM
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#43 |
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Senior Member
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That sounds about right. Just to be sure, look in the tech articles section of this site....the how to build a LS/VTEC article to confirm. Or maybe someone else could confirm this as well?
On another note, don't worry about the B16 Oil pump.....this would be the perfect opportunity to go with a Warlbro 255 instead.....not too much more expensive, and an essential if you plan on upgrading later on. Trust me on this one...it's worth it. Good luck on your build. MikeBergy: I've seen a few of his heads online and they are really clean. Post up some pics of yours, when it's done, I'd like to take a look  __________________
1998 Acura Integra Type R #864 |
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