Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

LS_VTEC · 01-05-2008, 12:02 AM

This is the finished product. If I had more time, I would have spent more time in the chemical bath but time was an issue..

LS_VTEC · 01-05-2008, 12:04 AM

CTR pistons came in...

As well as the CTR crankshaft pulley (which will need to be balanced)

LS_VTEC · 01-05-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

Something a friend of mine who builds Winston Cup engines once told me.

"I certainly hope you do that [machine work] with a bare block, unless you like metal shavings inside your engine."

I know Blanco. One cannot do those jobs with the crankshaft in. Thats why I removed it. =)

LS_VTEC · 01-05-2008, 12:14 AM

This is the damage on the rod journal from when I was removing the stock pistons/rods...as you can see, the only thing that will cause those marks are the rod bolts... When I used the rubber caps on the rod bolts when pushing the pistons/rods out, one of them came off... no biggie, minor machine work and polish will fix this and from what they told me, I should be fine with the ACL bearings I already bought for the rods...

Jixer615 · 01-05-2008, 12:19 AM

if you want the block and the head looking real clean and like new, go get them glass beaded with the blaster. it doesn't cost to much

blanco, you should tell him about using oem bearing instead of ACL bearing if he really cares about this build.

LS_VTEC · 01-05-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jixer615

if you want the block and the head looking real clean and like new, go get them glass beaded with the blaster. it doesn't cost to much

blanco, you should tell him about using oem bearing instead of ACL bearing if he really cares about this build.

What I should do is hot tank it, IMO. As for the ACL's, I've been using them for years and never had a problem. Ive used oem in some builds, but most get ACL Race. Never an issue. Some people strongly advise using oem bearings, some say ACL is just fine... You have to remember something, oem bearings are three layer, ACL Race is four layer minus the flash coating. If your clearances come out within specification, and the bolts are torqued to oem spec than it shouldnt have a problem with spinning a bearing.

An unbalanced crankshaft can cause bearing failure early, but The crankshaft and crankshaft pulley will be getting balanced monday.

Jixer615 · 01-05-2008, 12:31 AM

is this an all motor build or you planning on using others methods of power? if you going turbo, what head setup are you going to be using?

LS_VTEC · 01-05-2008, 12:45 AM

Look up at the pics of the pistons I posted... you tell me if I am going all motor or turbo =) The head is a 1st gen b16a head, with b16 valvetrain and itr cams. I am going to change the intake manifold/tb also. When I get to that point in the build I will post detailed pics

LS_VTEC · 01-05-2008, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

Then why did you say...

Just curious. To me, that says that you were going to leave it in, until that journal got dinged.

I'm also really surprised that you don't blueprint and settle for "within tolerances" with your bearing clearances. Do you at least machine the block and rod bores as needed so you have a uniformed clearance with the ACL bearings? Or would you accept something like ".0014", .0017", .0016", .0018""? I've heard that most techs just throw in either all Green or all Yellow bearings during a rebuild, instead of looking at color codes, which could explain the outlook.

I was going to leave it in, but I decided to remove it so I could do some cleaning up on the block as well as the cylinders BEFORE I even noticed the rod journal was damaged. As far as the Main bearings and thrust bearing goes, They showed very minimal signs of scoring. They were ACL's too... suprised me big time, that engine was opened up before obviously. Ive heard of builders using green throughout, not so much yellow. As for the rods, they are being machined as well as the crankshaft, and the machine shop has the minimum/maximum on the clearances and what is tolerable, they are going to get me new bearings for the Mains and the rods as well now. I requested that they be "slightly" looser. They understand why, as im sure you do also.

LS_VTEC · 01-05-2008, 03:27 AM

This started out as a cheap build with just a modified rod and higher compression piston deal. But now I feel the need to do more than just rod bearings. I want 0 headaches, so avoiding the machine shop for heavy work just isn't going to happen. =)

Jixer615 · 01-05-2008, 10:18 AM

now when you say "blueprinting" doesn't this mean complete measurments of every moving surface? this doesn't need to be professionally done if you take the time to measure everything yourself?

getting it done professionally doesn't make me feel 100% sure its right because the shops around here dont really have a history with honda engines here in Mansfield, OH. now if i lived in cali, i would have no worrries.

Jixer615 · 01-05-2008, 11:23 AM

for the new builder, most will go by the Tech. Manuals like i am for all that spec stuff, is there another way (more advanced) better then stock specs?

LS_VTEC · 01-05-2008, 11:48 PM

No, I do not blueprint. I go by oem clearances/tolerances. There really isnt a need to blueprint my setup being its an all oem build with all honda spec. clearances. If it were, say, je/eagle build, that would be a different story. I leave balancing/blueprinting up to the machine shop if they build the shortblock for me. But most of my builds consist of oem parts. I've done one gsr shortblock with JE/EAGLE, in which the rods had to be machined. It was a shelf-stocked rod, H-beam to be exact but for some reason the rod clearance with oem bearings was too tight so I asked the advice of a machinist, Eddie Banach. He did the machining and ever since then, he has been my #1 source for machining.

LS_VTEC · 01-06-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

Blueprinting is deciding what you want your bearing clearance, piston/wall clearance, piston ring end gaps, etc. to be and building the engine to those specs. Within tolerances is basically a rebuild where blueprinting is more an engine "build".

When using oem honda piston rings, there is no need for them to be gapped, they come pre-gapped. I do check the gap to make sure it is within honda's spec, just to be safe. But so far, 10 times out of 10 they come out the same every time for me. As for piston to wall clearance, I did not take any measurements of the CTR's. Due to the good condition of the cylinders, which I did measure, I should not have any problems. I have built ls-vtec's with this piston many times already with no piston slap issues.

Like you said before, people have their own procedures when building engines. This will probably be my last oem build (for myself). I would like to learn more about blueprinting, and pickup some more precision measuring instruments so I can move onto forged pistons/rods. I enjoy this a lot and hope to become, one day, a very respected engine builder.

ek9_tury · 01-06-2008, 03:45 AM

hey dtob did you feel a diference in putting that header on,, well it make a diference if i change mine i have a 4-1 dc sports on my b16 engine..

LS_VTEC · 01-06-2008, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ek9_tury

hey dtob did you feel a diference in putting that header on,, well it make a diference if i change mine i have a 4-1 dc sports on my b16 engine..

Throw that header in the garbage. I have one, its junk. That ebay replica is better, the quality of material used to fab it is not the same as the real deal Hytech but it will out perform the dc sports. I am personally going to run one of my lsvtec if I can get my hands on one next month. If not, ill shell out the cash for Rage or SMSP.

ek9_tury · 01-06-2008, 04:05 AM

hey thank's !! i didn't know about that one,,it's a biggg diference ,, thank's men im going to log on to ebay right know XD

LS_VTEC · 01-07-2008, 03:26 AM

Tomorrow (Monday) morning, I will be heading to the machine shop with the old pistons/rods, new pistons and the crankshaft. Turn-around time for the machining I need will take about 2-3 days. Ill post pics when I get it all back machined.

LS_VTEC · 01-08-2008, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanco

I meant to post this for you last night, but had to take off. Here's some stuff to kick-start your theory.

Aircraft Engine Technology (read the Engine Technology Subjects)
Camshaft Engineering Company
http://www.elgincams.com/campaper.html

Thanks, I appreciate it Blanco.

LS_VTEC · 01-08-2008, 04:02 AM

Dropped off the parts to my machinist, He will be flattening out that spot on the rod journal that I messed up, and polishing the whole crank. I purchased my piston rings and ARP rod bolts from him as well, and my ctr crank pulley will be balanced their too.

My costs:

arp rod bolts $50
piston rings $50
crank polish $40
machine the rods to fit the ctr pistons, wrist pins pressed, all four $100
Balance the crankshaft pulley $FREE

LS_VTEC · 01-09-2008, 12:24 AM

Water pump, timing belt and tensioner came in today.

90c-rex · 01-11-2008, 08:51 AM

don't you have to worry about the valve clearance if you put ctr pistons into a lsvtec setup? I've got a lsvtec setup but I'd used b16 pistons but I was thinking about switching them for ctr pistons for higher compression...what do you have build in your head as far as cams and valve,retainers and valve springs?

newb · 01-11-2008, 01:51 PM

whats a good range for the piston/vlave clearance to measure if i want to turn 10k rpm or slightly higher? how should i decide to run on the close end or far end of that range? is it personal preference?

90c-rex · 01-11-2008, 06:12 PM

say you have a lsvtec setup and redline at 7k and you want to boost your rpm up as in redline how what do I have to do to get that up?

newb · 01-11-2008, 08:01 PM

lol, oh no, the most ive ever turned was about 6k with my 390. and i only did that cuz the tranny gave out at about 5k. I just ask cuz id like to be on the safe side when i take my engine to 9500 plus. thanks for the spec by the way.

01-05-2008, 12:02 AM	#26
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	This is the finished product. If I had more time, I would have spent more time in the chemical bath but time was an issue.. __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold

01-05-2008, 12:04 AM	#27
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	CTR pistons came in... As well as the CTR crankshaft pulley (which will need to be balanced) __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold

01-05-2008, 12:14 AM	#29
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	This is the damage on the rod journal from when I was removing the stock pistons/rods...as you can see, the only thing that will cause those marks are the rod bolts... When I used the rubber caps on the rod bolts when pushing the pistons/rods out, one of them came off... no biggie, minor machine work and polish will fix this and from what they told me, I should be fine with the ACL bearings I already bought for the rods... __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold

01-05-2008, 12:45 AM	#33
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	Look up at the pics of the pistons I posted... you tell me if I am going all motor or turbo =) The head is a 1st gen b16a head, with b16 valvetrain and itr cams. I am going to change the intake manifold/tb also. When I get to that point in the build I will post detailed pics __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold

01-05-2008, 03:27 AM	#35
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	This started out as a cheap build with just a modified rod and higher compression piston deal. But now I feel the need to do more than just rod bearings. I want 0 headaches, so avoiding the machine shop for heavy work just isn't going to happen. =) __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold


Welcome, Guest! Please Register or Login: User Name Password Members have access to more features, better search, and see fewer ads! It's free, what are you waiting for?

01-05-2008, 12:19 AM	#30
Jixer615 Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 73 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 4	if you want the block and the head looking real clean and like new, go get them glass beaded with the blaster. it doesn't cost to much blanco, you should tell him about using oem bearing instead of ACL bearing if he really cares about this build.

01-05-2008, 12:31 AM	#32
Jixer615 Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 73 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 4	is this an all motor build or you planning on using others methods of power? if you going turbo, what head setup are you going to be using?

01-05-2008, 10:18 AM	#36
Jixer615 Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 73 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 4	now when you say "blueprinting" doesn't this mean complete measurments of every moving surface? this doesn't need to be professionally done if you take the time to measure everything yourself? getting it done professionally doesn't make me feel 100% sure its right because the shops around here dont really have a history with honda engines here in Mansfield, OH. now if i lived in cali, i would have no worrries.

01-05-2008, 11:23 AM	#37
Jixer615 Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 73 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 4	for the new builder, most will go by the Tech. Manuals like i am for all that spec stuff, is there another way (more advanced) better then stock specs?

01-05-2008, 11:48 PM	#38
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	No, I do not blueprint. I go by oem clearances/tolerances. There really isnt a need to blueprint my setup being its an all oem build with all honda spec. clearances. If it were, say, je/eagle build, that would be a different story. I leave balancing/blueprinting up to the machine shop if they build the shortblock for me. But most of my builds consist of oem parts. I've done one gsr shortblock with JE/EAGLE, in which the rods had to be machined. It was a shelf-stocked rod, H-beam to be exact but for some reason the rod clearance with oem bearings was too tight so I asked the advice of a machinist, Eddie Banach. He did the machining and ever since then, he has been my #1 source for machining. __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold

01-06-2008, 03:45 AM	#40
ek9_tury Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: san diego Age: 23 Posts: 9 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2000 civic SI Rep Power: 0	hey dtob did you feel a diference in putting that header on,, well it make a diference if i change mine i have a 4-1 dc sports on my b16 engine..

01-06-2008, 04:05 AM	#42
ek9_tury Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: san diego Age: 23 Posts: 9 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2000 civic SI Rep Power: 0	hey thank's !! i didn't know about that one,,it's a biggg diference ,, thank's men im going to log on to ebay right know XD

01-07-2008, 03:26 AM	#43
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	Tomorrow (Monday) morning, I will be heading to the machine shop with the old pistons/rods, new pistons and the crankshaft. Turn-around time for the machining I need will take about 2-3 days. Ill post pics when I get it all back machined. __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold

01-08-2008, 04:02 AM	#45
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	Dropped off the parts to my machinist, He will be flattening out that spot on the rod journal that I messed up, and polishing the whole crank. I purchased my piston rings and ARP rod bolts from him as well, and my ctr crank pulley will be balanced their too. My costs: arp rod bolts $50 piston rings $50 crank polish $40 machine the rods to fit the ctr pistons, wrist pins pressed, all four $100 Balance the crankshaft pulley $FREE __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold

01-09-2008, 12:24 AM	#46
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	Water pump, timing belt and tensioner came in today. __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold

01-11-2008, 08:51 AM	#47
90c-rex Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 21 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 4	don't you have to worry about the valve clearance if you put ctr pistons into a lsvtec setup? I've got a lsvtec setup but I'd used b16 pistons but I was thinking about switching them for ctr pistons for higher compression...what do you have build in your head as far as cams and valve,retainers and valve springs?

01-11-2008, 01:51 PM	#48
newb is lol'ing @ you Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Backwoods Northwest Posts: 2,014 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: '98 Z28 Blog Entries: 4 Rep Power: 88	whats a good range for the piston/vlave clearance to measure if i want to turn 10k rpm or slightly higher? how should i decide to run on the close end or far end of that range? is it personal preference?

01-11-2008, 06:12 PM	#49
90c-rex Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 21 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 4	say you have a lsvtec setup and redline at 7k and you want to boost your rpm up as in redline how what do I have to do to get that up?

01-11-2008, 08:01 PM	#50
newb is lol'ing @ you Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Backwoods Northwest Posts: 2,014 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: '98 Z28 Blog Entries: 4 Rep Power: 88	lol, oh no, the most ive ever turned was about 6k with my 390. and i only did that cuz the tranny gave out at about 5k. I just ask cuz id like to be on the safe side when i take my engine to 9500 plus. thanks for the spec by the way.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Mild LS-V Questions	Spada	Engine Building	5	08-10-2006 05:29 PM
From B20 to lsvtec	bambam	Engine Building	6	10-24-2005 10:48 PM
LSVTEC Dowel Pins	JayDeeEmDC4	Engine Building	5	05-23-2005 01:41 PM
91 Civic Hatch LSVTEC 13 second car	david_jones001	Vehicles: For Sale/Trade/Wanted	15	03-18-2005 09:34 AM
Been Working Non-stop On The Lsvtec	pills_PMD	Engine Building	8	05-09-2003 05:23 PM

Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

Mild lsvtec buildup: how to & pics