Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

pissedoffsol · 01-08-2003, 03:02 AM

he says beat the piss out of it... WTF?

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

**sportlinecrx** · 01-08-2003, 03:21 AM

he seems to know what he's talking about...and when you think about it, most new cars have been test driven, which means somebody wrung it out in the first 20 miles. my owner's manual doesnt say to baby the engine, it just says that the car should be driven at varying speeds for the first 500(?) miles.

E_SolSi · 01-08-2003, 03:25 AM

holy fuck that was informative
now i just need a new engine to try it on

i think the varying speed thing is more for the clutch/flywheel (?????)

prawjEKt Cx · 01-08-2003, 12:12 PM

i'd hate to preach on about beating a motor but listen to this..... my friend got a base model neon brand new in 2000, from the moment we left the lot we just beat the crap outta that stupid car and beat it and beat it... well either way he got a 15.81 at the track, and i know that's not real fast it's a sohc neon.

B16 · 01-08-2003, 12:24 PM

damn dude, my girl has a 2000 neon, and it is slow as shit!!! she took it to the track once (for shits and giggles) and it ran like a 17.6

lsvtec · 01-08-2003, 12:59 PM

I guess I will volunteer to be test bitch for this one. I am slowly accumulating parts for an engine rebuild. When I get it assembled again I will try this method of breakin and tell you guys what I see.

gtpilot · 01-08-2003, 02:37 PM

On my race motors, we do get them up to speed in about thirty minutes. The first time we start it, it is fast idled (~2500 RPM) until it gets up to temperature and the water temp reaches 190 degrees. We shut it off and let it cool completely and the retorque the head, the intake, the exhaust, lash the valves and do a general inspection.

Then they get two 15 minute session to get broken in and seated...first session no revs above 5500 and all throttle at 1/2 to make good pressure against the rings. We repeat the service routine completed after the first run of the motor and change the oil. Second session increase the revs by 250 RPM per lap to 8000. After that, let her rip...I get twice the ring life as I do bearing life breaking them in that way. I don't use synthetic oil in my race motors, but it is for a reason unrelated to the rings. The longest I go between rebuild is about 12 hours, that's for a motor that we limit the revs to 8200...I have one motor that I run to 9200 to 9400 - it runs one warmup session, one qualifying session and one race before rebuild - one hour of run time...

Street, I drive no more than 4000 RPM with no more than 1/2 throttle for the first 800 miles using non-synth oil. I changed the oil (again non-synth) and start increasing the revs 500 RPM per 100 miles so that aroung 1400 miles I am running 7000 RPM. I only do light load pulls on the motor when first starting to get to this range - i.e., lower gears and lower throttle, just letting the motor spin up freely and trying to notice any vibrations or noises that are abnormal. After this, I use my judgement as to how hard to rev the motor - it is still tight.

At 3000 miles I take a leakdown on the cylinders when it is hot - if it is not below 3% - I do another 2000 miles on non-syth oil just to make me comfortable that I have got a good seat. Don't know that it makes a difference, but it has always worked for me. I have motors with over 250 K Miles on them and still make excellent compression and less than 5% leakdown.

Kirk

Calesta · 01-09-2003, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gtpilot@Jan 8 2003, 01:42 PM
On my race motors

On a Honda 4 cylinder for a car or a motorcycle engine?

Maybe this is why I was always losing oil... I was really easy on the engine when I first got it. Hmm... I'm getting new rings pretty soon, so I want to verify this information before risking it on a new set of rings.

lsvtec · 01-09-2003, 10:43 PM

I figure that I was burning a ton of oil already and I followed the old method to the letter. I think that it is worth a try.

Calesta · 01-10-2003, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lsvtec@Jan 9 2003, 09:48 PM
I figure that I was burning a ton of oil already and I followed the old method to the letter. I think that it is worth a try.

Yup. I agree. I just talked to a few of my other car buddies, and they agree with this method- they've done a LOT of research about it already... I'll talk to Intercrew tomorrow and see what Phillip says.

lsvtec · 01-10-2003, 09:20 AM

Keep us updated on that if you can. It would be interesting to hear a few more opinions. I work with a guy that used to build engines for dirt oval. He used the same breakin method as gtpilot does for race engines.

gtpilot · 01-10-2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta+Jan 9 2003, 08:33 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Calesta @ Jan 9 2003, 08:33 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-gtpilot@Jan 8 2003, 01:42 PM
On my race motors

On a Honda 4 cylinder for a car or a motorcycle engine?

[/b][/quote]
Yes, I run the EW series 1300 and 1500 motors with Total Seal Rings on JE or Weisco pistons.

Kirk

lsvtec · 02-05-2003, 02:19 PM

Has anyone tried this method yet?

SixtySecondAssassin · 02-05-2003, 02:40 PM

what material are honda cylinder walls made from? he says the break in process is for steel and composites.

hcivic.com · 02-05-2003, 04:22 PM

this method is for track use on enginges that will last 12 hours at most and his page is for bikes it you read it more carfully every manual and rebuild book for eveyr engine 50% of throttle for 20 cool down and up from there and baby ir no full throttle and pounding for the first 300 miles

96hatch · 02-05-2003, 04:34 PM

Not all tips apply , but there is still some useful engine info here

even a small break-in tip

http://hastingsmfg.com/service_tips.htm

lsvtec · 02-05-2003, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MotoMan@ His Site
Although the example here is a Suzuki, these principles apply to all 4 stroke engines;
Street or Race Motorcycles, Cars, Snowmobiles, Airplanes & yes ... even Lawn Mowers !!

tomtom · 02-05-2003, 10:03 PM

dam guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sorry to tell all yal this but i work at a dodge dealer for 2years, ford dealer for about 1 1/2 year and we do all the pdi (predelivery vechile inspection) guest what we don t check shit cause if something does break its under warranty
anyways we get the cars and trucks with1-5 miles on it and we drive the shit out of them
my friends at toyota and honda say the same

why u think the fast cars only get test driven by shop formens(they know we don t check them all we do drive the shit out of them)

i got to drive a new dodge viper befor (in circles in the parking lot with the service manager watching out the window)lol
the fastest car i drove off the lot is a lighten and v12 mercedes (i only got to drive them because they failed smog and i toke it out to warm it up)
belive me they were really warm after wards

saturn_boy96 · 04-11-2003, 07:10 PM

I know this thread is old but i need to know if the "Hard Breakin Method" works.

lsvtec · 04-11-2003, 07:13 PM

When my LSVTEC article makes it up the break in method that I used is in there. It worked well.

[spoon] · 04-12-2003, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tomtom@Feb 5 2003, 10:08 PM
dam guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sorry to tell all yal this but i work at a dodge dealer for 2years, ford dealer for about 1 1/2 year and we do all the pdi (predelivery vechile inspection) guest what we don t check shit cause if something does break its under warranty
anyways we get the cars and trucks with1-5 miles on it and we drive the shit out of them
my friends at toyota and honda say the same

why u think the fast cars only get test driven by shop formens(they know we don t check them all we do drive the shit out of them)

i got to drive a new dodge viper befor (in circles in the parking lot with the service manager watching out the window)lol
the fastest car i drove off the lot is a lighten and v12 mercedes (i only got to drive them because they failed smog and i toke it out to warm it up)
belive me they were really warm after wards

of course new cars arent tested at the dealerships if they were every car would have an oddometer reading or more then around 0.0 they test cars at the factories

also when someone builds an engine for their race car (say a tuned 383 chevy stroker) they drive it hard as soon as its in their car. you dont hear about racers taking it easy to "break in the motor" they go hard or are sent home. an F1 or CART cars motor is rebuilt after everyrace they dont go easy on it for the first few thousand miles cuz if they did they would never run at 200+ mph at race time.

id bet this would work but like all things you can go too far. babying will get you under powered but redlining for the first 1000 miles will prolly give you a good start at voiding any warrenty u recieved.

Calesta · 04-12-2003, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by [spoon
,Apr 11 2003, 10:47 PM] of course new cars arent tested at the dealerships if they were every car would have an oddometer reading or more then around 0.0 they test cars at the factories

also when someone builds an engine for their race car (say a tuned 383 chevy stroker) they drive it hard as soon as its in their car. you dont hear about racers taking it easy to "break in the motor" they go hard or are sent home. an F1 or CART cars motor is rebuilt after everyrace they dont go easy on it for the first few thousand miles cuz if they did they would never run at 200+ mph at race time.

id bet this would work but like all things you can go too far. babying will get you under powered but redlining for the first 1000 miles will prolly give you a good start at voiding any warrenty u recieved.

Ok, a few things to keep in mind here

1. Race engines and street engines are built with completely different materials and setups, requiring different breakins
2. Race engines don't have to last past the race that they were used in- so longevity is not an issue, and harsh breakin is less of a problem
3. Why is everyone talking about a "383 Chevy stroker" all of a sudden? Is it just me?

Domeskilla · 04-12-2003, 05:03 AM

B/c everyone thinks the 383 is a "race" motor. Hello and welcome to hot rods, they are used in the streets more than a race car.. Most drag racers are using either 400's bored to 406 or big blocks. Nascar and other oval type racers use 377's in their chevy's. Its a destroker.

Calesta · 04-12-2003, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Domeskilla@Apr 12 2003, 03:08 AM
B/c everyone thinks the 383 is a "race" motor. Hello and welcome to hot rods, they are used in the streets more than a race car.. Most drag racers are using either 400's bored to 406 or big blocks. Nascar and other oval type racers use 377's in their chevy's. Its a destroker.

No, I was talking more about the thread where the guy was asking about stroking B blocks and getting more power... something like that, and he keeps talking about the 383 setup to prove his lack of understanding. Whatever. I'm tired and I need to go home. I've been at work since 1:30pm, and it's 4:00am.

I just want to talk to Eric about his results on the break-in method.

01-08-2003, 12:24 PM	#5
B16 Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: yay area, CA Age: 30 Posts: 6,730 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 99	damn dude, my girl has a 2000 neon, and it is slow as shit!!! she took it to the track once (for shits and giggles) and it ran like a 17.6 __________________ 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8 2004 BMW 325i 2000 Mercedes Benz ML 430 1994 Honda Civic Del Sol VTEC (race kaa)

01-08-2003, 12:59 PM	#6
lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Greater Portland, OR Posts: 5,497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: The Cheapest Road Bicycle I could get Rep Power: 67	I guess I will volunteer to be test bitch for this one. I am slowly accumulating parts for an engine rebuild. When I get it assembled again I will try this method of breakin and tell you guys what I see. __________________ v3sw7+9Chw6ln3pr7Ock4ma9w3TXm3l7GDF i7Ce6+8t4MNb8Oen6g6RAOa26s5MRp6 hackerkey.com

01-09-2003, 10:43 PM	#9
lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Greater Portland, OR Posts: 5,497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: The Cheapest Road Bicycle I could get Rep Power: 67	I figure that I was burning a ton of oil already and I followed the old method to the letter. I think that it is worth a try. __________________ v3sw7+9Chw6ln3pr7Ock4ma9w3TXm3l7GDF i7Ce6+8t4MNb8Oen6g6RAOa26s5MRp6 hackerkey.com

01-10-2003, 09:20 AM	#11
lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Greater Portland, OR Posts: 5,497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: The Cheapest Road Bicycle I could get Rep Power: 67	Keep us updated on that if you can. It would be interesting to hear a few more opinions. I work with a guy that used to build engines for dirt oval. He used the same breakin method as gtpilot does for race engines. __________________ v3sw7+9Chw6ln3pr7Ock4ma9w3TXm3l7GDF i7Ce6+8t4MNb8Oen6g6RAOa26s5MRp6 hackerkey.com

02-05-2003, 02:19 PM	#13
lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Greater Portland, OR Posts: 5,497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: The Cheapest Road Bicycle I could get Rep Power: 67	Has anyone tried this method yet? __________________ v3sw7+9Chw6ln3pr7Ock4ma9w3TXm3l7GDF i7Ce6+8t4MNb8Oen6g6RAOa26s5MRp6 hackerkey.com


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01-08-2003, 03:02 AM	#1
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 28 Posts: 49,974 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 529	he says beat the piss out of it... WTF? http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

01-08-2003, 03:21 AM	#2
sportlinecrx Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 6,046 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	he seems to know what he's talking about...and when you think about it, most new cars have been test driven, which means somebody wrung it out in the first 20 miles. my owner's manual doesnt say to baby the engine, it just says that the car should be driven at varying speeds for the first 500(?) miles.

01-08-2003, 12:12 PM	#4
prawjEKt Cx Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: upstate NY Age: 25 Posts: 551 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 18	i'd hate to preach on about beating a motor but listen to this..... my friend got a base model neon brand new in 2000, from the moment we left the lot we just beat the crap outta that stupid car and beat it and beat it... well either way he got a 15.81 at the track, and i know that's not real fast it's a sohc neon.

01-08-2003, 02:37 PM	#7
gtpilot Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 77 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	On my race motors, we do get them up to speed in about thirty minutes. The first time we start it, it is fast idled (~2500 RPM) until it gets up to temperature and the water temp reaches 190 degrees. We shut it off and let it cool completely and the retorque the head, the intake, the exhaust, lash the valves and do a general inspection. Then they get two 15 minute session to get broken in and seated...first session no revs above 5500 and all throttle at 1/2 to make good pressure against the rings. We repeat the service routine completed after the first run of the motor and change the oil. Second session increase the revs by 250 RPM per lap to 8000. After that, let her rip...I get twice the ring life as I do bearing life breaking them in that way. I don't use synthetic oil in my race motors, but it is for a reason unrelated to the rings. The longest I go between rebuild is about 12 hours, that's for a motor that we limit the revs to 8200...I have one motor that I run to 9200 to 9400 - it runs one warmup session, one qualifying session and one race before rebuild - one hour of run time... Street, I drive no more than 4000 RPM with no more than 1/2 throttle for the first 800 miles using non-synth oil. I changed the oil (again non-synth) and start increasing the revs 500 RPM per 100 miles so that aroung 1400 miles I am running 7000 RPM. I only do light load pulls on the motor when first starting to get to this range - i.e., lower gears and lower throttle, just letting the motor spin up freely and trying to notice any vibrations or noises that are abnormal. After this, I use my judgement as to how hard to rev the motor - it is still tight. At 3000 miles I take a leakdown on the cylinders when it is hot - if it is not below 3% - I do another 2000 miles on non-syth oil just to make me comfortable that I have got a good seat. Don't know that it makes a difference, but it has always worked for me. I have motors with over 250 K Miles on them and still make excellent compression and less than 5% leakdown. Kirk

02-05-2003, 02:40 PM	#14
SixtySecondAssassin Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,071 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 23	what material are honda cylinder walls made from? he says the break in process is for steel and composites. __________________ .....deagle.....

02-05-2003, 04:22 PM	#15
hcivic.com Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Calgary Alberta canada Posts: 4,577 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 57	this method is for track use on enginges that will last 12 hours at most and his page is for bikes it you read it more carfully every manual and rebuild book for eveyr engine 50% of throttle for 20 cool down and up from there and baby ir no full throttle and pounding for the first 300 miles

02-05-2003, 04:34 PM	#16
96hatch Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 14 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	Not all tips apply , but there is still some useful engine info here even a small break-in tip http://hastingsmfg.com/service_tips.htm __________________ b!+@# please.

02-05-2003, 10:03 PM	#18
tomtom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: central, cali Posts: 198 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	dam guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry to tell all yal this but i work at a dodge dealer for 2years, ford dealer for about 1 1/2 year and we do all the pdi (predelivery vechile inspection) guest what we don t check shit cause if something does break its under warranty anyways we get the cars and trucks with1-5 miles on it and we drive the shit out of them my friends at toyota and honda say the same why u think the fast cars only get test driven by shop formens(they know we don t check them all we do drive the shit out of them) i got to drive a new dodge viper befor (in circles in the parking lot with the service manager watching out the window)lol the fastest car i drove off the lot is a lighten and v12 mercedes (i only got to drive them because they failed smog and i toke it out to warm it up) belive me they were really warm after wards

04-11-2003, 07:10 PM	#19
saturn_boy96 88 C1V1C 53D4N DR1V3R Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sheridan, WY Age: 26 Posts: 1,507 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2006 Suzuki Aerio Rep Power: 29	I know this thread is old but i need to know if the "Hard Breakin Method" works.

04-11-2003, 07:13 PM	#20
lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Greater Portland, OR Posts: 5,497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: The Cheapest Road Bicycle I could get Rep Power: 67	When my LSVTEC article makes it up the break in method that I used is in there. It worked well. __________________ v3sw7+9Chw6ln3pr7Ock4ma9w3TXm3l7GDF i7Ce6+8t4MNb8Oen6g6RAOa26s5MRp6 hackerkey.com

04-12-2003, 05:03 AM	#23
Domeskilla Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 2,948 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 42	B/c everyone thinks the 383 is a "race" motor. Hello and welcome to hot rods, they are used in the streets more than a race car.. Most drag racers are using either 400's bored to 406 or big blocks. Nascar and other oval type racers use 377's in their chevy's. Its a destroker. __________________ For all your air suspension needs <a href=\'http://www.ultimatesporttruck.com\' target=\'_blank\'>Three Rivers Ultimate Sport Truck</a> There are many misconceptions of air ride and handling. A lot of bullshit spread, please PM if you wish to put air on your car/truck. You will get the 411. There ARE ppl who race with air ride, just have to know how to install it right.

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New Break In Method?