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sohcslammer · 10-12-2004, 12:39 PM

OK, so for the few of you that know, and the rest that don't care, I just bought a 99 SI. I was going to get another EG and go B20-turbo but I came across this car while I was looking, and the price was too good to pass up. So after driving it around for a week I have come to realize that the SI is a heavy, over-weighted, underpowered hog. So like anyone with a speed fetish that works at a speed shop I decided it's time to tear into the motor.

Let me know what you guys think of the plan. Remember that I was looking to spend MUCH less on an EG and swap and turbo that, so pretty much all of my money is spent. This is just a temporary build untill next year...

B20B bottom end swap
ARP everything
PR3 pistons
PR3 rods
Comp/Zex cams 57200
Comp/Zex valve springs and retainers
2 layer head gasket
Skunk2 OBDII to OBDI conversion harness
P30 ECU
S200 Hondata

I checked on C-Speed racing and my compression should be around 12.6:1. I was unsure whether to go with the 57300 cams instead. What do you guys think? Also, what do you think of a direct port 50 shot? Overkill? Let me know if I forgot anything or just what ya think. Thanx -

Shad

pissedoffsol · 10-12-2004, 01:30 PM

screw the p30, get a p28 with the hondata. its cheaper and will do the same thing. b20 doesn't have a knock sensor anyway.

pr3 rods are way too short for a b20's stroke. you need ls/b20 length rods when using the ls/b20 crank.

jdm p30 pistons offer more compression than pr3's.

how can you figure compression, when you never mention a head. b20? ls? b16? gsr? itr? ctr?

sohcslammer · 10-12-2004, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Oct 12 2004, 12:30 PM
screw the p30, get a p28 with the hondata.* its cheaper and will do the same thing.* b20 doesn't have a knock sensor anyway.

pr3 rods are way too short for a b20's stroke.* you need ls/b20 length rods when using the ls/b20 crank.

jdm p30 pistons offer more compression than pr3's.

how can you figure compression, when you never mention a head.* b20? ls? b16? gsr? itr? ctr?

Quoted post

Thanx Brian. I wasn't sure about the rods. I did mention that it was going in my 99 SI. And I did mention that it was a bottom end swap. Hence the PR3 pistons and the B16 head.

Will I need to notch the LS rods to fit the B16 pistons? Maybe I will just go with the Scat forged H beam rods...

Thanx for the input on the P28 instead.

Anything else? What about the Nawwwws? Should I go with the more agressive cams? Think this setup will be good enough for a high 12 on slicks???

**edit** I just though of something. What are the advantages/disadvantages/problems I would run into using the B16 crank? What would my displacement be? What is the meaning of life? Why is the sky blue? Why does Tom Arnold insist on "acting"?

pissedoffsol · 10-12-2004, 02:41 PM

b16 pistons will fit ls rods like stock.

i'm not a nitrous expert, so im not going to comment on it... but lord knows, my built motor would never see it.
a stock d-series, all day... cuz who caers if you blow up-- but not my 3k motor with 3k in parts on it. F that shit.

beerbongskickass · 10-12-2004, 03:23 PM

Forced induction (Nawwws, turbo, s/c, whatever...) + stock b20 bottom end = more than likely a cracked sleeve...

Hell, I was just reading on www.b20vtec.com that one guy cracked his b20 sleeve and he was all motor! ( http://b20vtec.com/forums/showthread.php?t=660 ) I don't want to hear "tune it right and you won't have to worry", that's BS. I know people have made good numbers before, but it's not worth the risk (my buddy made 302whp with the stock b20 bottom end, but eventually cracked his sleeves). Like I said in your last post about this subject, I know a few guys that have cracked b20 sleeves, and they know a few guys as well. Just be very careful and don't be suprised if you end up cracking a sleeve with extremely high compression or a little forced induction. The design of the sleeves are garbage... end of story.

Calesta · 10-12-2004, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sohcslammer@Oct 12 2004, 11:39 AM
B20B bottom end swap
PR3 pistons

Quoted post

Huh?

sohcslammer · 10-12-2004, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta+Oct 12 2004, 02:47 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Calesta @ Oct 12 2004, 02:47 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-sohcslammer@Oct 12 2004, 11:39 AM
B20B bottom end swap
PR3 pistons

Quoted post

Huh?

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

I own a 99 SI. I want to swap the B20 block onto it. I want to use my B16 pistons for higher compression. I guess you are confused because a bottom end swap contains the pistons?

sohcslammer · 10-12-2004, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beerbongskickass@Oct 12 2004, 02:23 PM
Forced induction (Nawwws, turbo, s/c, whatever...) + stock b20 bottom end = more than likely a cracked sleeve...

Hell, I was just reading on www.b20vtec.com that one guy cracked his b20 sleeve and he was all motor! ( http://b20vtec.com/forums/showthread.php?t=660 ) I don't want to hear "tune it right and you won't have to worry", that's BS. I know people have made good numbers before, but it's not worth the risk (my buddy made 302whp with the stock b20 bottom end, but eventually cracked his sleeves). Like I said in your last post about this subject, I know a few guys that have cracked b20 sleeves, and they know a few guys as well. Just be very careful and don't be suprised if you end up cracking a sleeve with extremely high compression or a little forced induction. The design of the sleeves are garbage... end of story.

Quoted post

My last post on this subject was for a turbo on a stock B20. This post is about a NA CRVTEC. Kinda the same, but now I just wanted to know what you guys thought of the plan. The nitrous is just an afterthought. Although with good tuning I really don't think a 50 shot would add that much more stress to the motor. I was also under the impression that detonation caused the walls to crack.... I could be wrong though

sohcslammer · 10-12-2004, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pheonixb16aguy@Oct 12 2004, 03:25 PM
BAHAHAHAHAHA .....you cant use those pistons in a b20 since the bore in* b16 is 81mm and in the b20 its 84mm...lol and as brian pointed out those rods (pr3's) would not work ... you can if you work at a shop and dont know either of these (sighhh) please tell us the name of your shop so nobody from here goes there......0Wn3D

Quoted post

Sorry, I didn't look up the bore and stroke on a B20 block. I was under the impression that it was the same bore as an LS motor with a longer stroke. Why didn't anyone catch that before Calesta??

And

for thinking that I sit around all day and look up specs for different honda motors. I actually have to work. Which leads me to wonder... If you have nothing better to do with your life than sit at home on the internet making fun of people that make an honest mistake then maybe you should find something to occupy your time. Just a thought.

sohcslammer · 10-12-2004, 06:48 PM

Listen you dumb fucking bitch. You obviously are a pathetic piece of shit with no life. I never attacked you or said anything with malice even after you decided it would be lots of fun to make fun of me for not knowing what the bore of a B20 is. I am positive that you are an ugly pathetic looser that has no life and sits at home on the internet because anyone that saw you in person would run away screaming. I work at a speed shop yes, but I don't work on cars, I just sell parts. And mostly domestic parts too. So I forgot to check the bore on the B20 block. Big deal. Maybe I am just used to all the B stuff being interchangeable. Maybe I just wanted to make your day. Well I hope I made you laugh. Because when you log off the internet and go back to your pathetic excuse for a life, I'll be thinking of you. And I'll be the one lauging. Bitch.

P.S. - Glad to see that you are smart enough to get a job that any fucking crippled border-jumper can get on their first day in this country....

sohcslammer · 10-14-2004, 12:47 PM

I thought crankshaft pulleys were supposed to be bad for the motor?

Calesta · 10-14-2004, 02:47 PM

Alright bitches, calm down or you get more warnings and some vacation time. Ownage is stupid, and it just pisses people off. Quit.

sohcslammer- that's exactly why I wrote "huh?". I'm surprised that nobody caught that before my post either, but oh well- it doesn't matter. You can't run the B16 pistons in the B20 block.

Most people like to stay away from aftermarket crank pulleys because the stock pulleys usually have harmonic balancers in them. The balancers help smooth out the power pulses from the combustion process, so you generally want to stay with the stock pulley if you're running your built engine on the street.

sohcslammer · 10-14-2004, 05:23 PM

Thanx Cal. I wanted to get some more torque because the weight of the car coupled with the lack of torque of the B16 is driving me nuts. I just found out today that I bought the car with a bad piston ring though.

So, without having the luxury of time to save up for a B20, pistons, cams, valvesprings, oil lines, etc; I have decided to just replace my pistons and rings with some ctrs. cost effective and a little more oomph I'm hoping.

Calesta · 10-14-2004, 05:28 PM

Crap. I closed the window before the post was done sending....

A good guess that people like to use is about a 4% increase in torque/power per full point of compression. Use that as a rough guide if you want. Invest in more aggressive cams too.

sohcslammer · 10-14-2004, 05:42 PM

With those CTR pistons do you think the CTR cams will be enough, or would you go with like a crower 403 or a comp 57200? I have a friend with the CTRs for sale for $300.

Calesta · 10-14-2004, 09:51 PM

The CTR cams for $300 is an ok price. I would probably go with something a bit more aggressive myself though.

Arachnid · 10-14-2004, 10:08 PM

i say for your b16 get some pimp-a$$ aggressive cams with unparalleled head work and then get the jdm p30 pistons to increase the compression.(it should shouldn't it?) you'll be quite a formidable apponent.

a b20 is too much of a hassle for me. stupid unbalanced crank, weak cylinder walls, gay compression, etc. but then again b20z is a challenger with a vtec head on there.

you guys argue too much!!! hahaha.

driverunknown · 10-15-2004, 03:36 AM

teasing and mockery keeps people humble.
Good luck with the build.

sohcslammer · 10-15-2004, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by driverunknown@Oct 15 2004, 02:36 AM
teasing and mockery keeps people humble.
Good luck with the build.

Quoted post

pissedoffsol · 10-15-2004, 01:07 PM

ctr pistons are also 81mm bore and won't fit in the 84mm b20 block

why even bring it up?

sohcslammer · 10-15-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sohcslammer@Oct 14 2004, 04:23 PM
Thanx Cal. I wanted to get some more torque because the weight of the car coupled with the lack of torque of the B16 is driving me nuts. I just found out today that I bought the car with a bad piston ring though. So, without having the luxury of time to save up for a B20, pistons, cams, valvesprings, oil lines, etc; I have decided to just replace my pistons and rings with some ctrs. cost effective and a little more oomph I'm hoping.

Quoted post

B - what cams would you recomend? I get parts at cost from my work, but I only carry Comp/Zex, crane, edelbrock, and everything Options and Modacar carry.

I'm leaning to the zex/comp 57200

sohcbuilder · 10-15-2004, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Oct 15 2004, 12:07 PM
ctr pistons are also 81mm bore and won't fit in the 84mm b20 block

why even bring it up?

Quoted post

becouse he has a b16 in his car right now and is too broke to get the b20 so for now he is staying with the b16 (correct sohcslammer?)

pissedoffsol · 10-15-2004, 02:01 PM

bah- you two names screwed me up-- sohcthis, sohcthat

pissedoffsol · 10-15-2004, 02:01 PM

cams- i'd go with crower or toda

sohcslammer · 10-15-2004, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Oct 15 2004, 01:01 PM
bah- you two names screwed me up-- sohcthis, sohcthat

Quoted post

I'm the original.

B - Werd on that. Although even discounted Toda might be out of my price range.... :P

10-12-2004, 12:39 PM	#1
sohcslammer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,193 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 35	OK, so for the few of you that know, and the rest that don't care, I just bought a 99 SI. I was going to get another EG and go B20-turbo but I came across this car while I was looking, and the price was too good to pass up. So after driving it around for a week I have come to realize that the SI is a heavy, over-weighted, underpowered hog. So like anyone with a speed fetish that works at a speed shop I decided it's time to tear into the motor. Let me know what you guys think of the plan. Remember that I was looking to spend MUCH less on an EG and swap and turbo that, so pretty much all of my money is spent. This is just a temporary build untill next year... B20B bottom end swap ARP everything PR3 pistons PR3 rods Comp/Zex cams 57200 Comp/Zex valve springs and retainers 2 layer head gasket Skunk2 OBDII to OBDI conversion harness P30 ECU S200 Hondata I checked on C-Speed racing and my compression should be around 12.6:1. I was unsure whether to go with the 57300 cams instead. What do you guys think? Also, what do you think of a direct port 50 shot? Overkill? Let me know if I forgot anything or just what ya think. Thanx - Shad __________________ Latest project - 1 fucking fast 99 SI

10-12-2004, 03:23 PM	#5
beerbongskickass Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Longview WA Posts: 497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 16	Forced induction (Nawwws, turbo, s/c, whatever...) + stock b20 bottom end = more than likely a cracked sleeve... Hell, I was just reading on www.b20vtec.com that one guy cracked his b20 sleeve and he was all motor! ( http://b20vtec.com/forums/showthread.php?t=660 ) I don't want to hear "tune it right and you won't have to worry", that's BS. I know people have made good numbers before, but it's not worth the risk (my buddy made 302whp with the stock b20 bottom end, but eventually cracked his sleeves). Like I said in your last post about this subject, I know a few guys that have cracked b20 sleeves, and they know a few guys as well. Just be very careful and don't be suprised if you end up cracking a sleeve with extremely high compression or a little forced induction. The design of the sleeves are garbage... end of story. __________________ Turbocharged 95 Civic w/stock D16Z6 - 230whp/208wtq thanks to www.HomeMadeTurbo.com and uberdata

10-12-2004, 06:48 PM	#10
sohcslammer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,193 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 35	Listen you dumb fucking bitch. You obviously are a pathetic piece of shit with no life. I never attacked you or said anything with malice even after you decided it would be lots of fun to make fun of me for not knowing what the bore of a B20 is. I am positive that you are an ugly pathetic looser that has no life and sits at home on the internet because anyone that saw you in person would run away screaming. I work at a speed shop yes, but I don't work on cars, I just sell parts. And mostly domestic parts too. So I forgot to check the bore on the B20 block. Big deal. Maybe I am just used to all the B stuff being interchangeable. Maybe I just wanted to make your day. Well I hope I made you laugh. Because when you log off the internet and go back to your pathetic excuse for a life, I'll be thinking of you. And I'll be the one lauging. Bitch. P.S. - Glad to see that you are smart enough to get a job that any fucking crippled border-jumper can get on their first day in this country.... __________________ Latest project - 1 fucking fast 99 SI

10-14-2004, 12:47 PM	#11
sohcslammer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,193 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 35	I thought crankshaft pulleys were supposed to be bad for the motor? __________________ Latest project - 1 fucking fast 99 SI

10-14-2004, 02:47 PM	#12
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,530 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	Alright bitches, calm down or you get more warnings and some vacation time. Ownage is stupid, and it just pisses people off. Quit. sohcslammer- that's exactly why I wrote "huh?". I'm surprised that nobody caught that before my post either, but oh well- it doesn't matter. You can't run the B16 pistons in the B20 block. Most people like to stay away from aftermarket crank pulleys because the stock pulleys usually have harmonic balancers in them. The balancers help smooth out the power pulses from the combustion process, so you generally want to stay with the stock pulley if you're running your built engine on the street. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688


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10-12-2004, 01:30 PM	#2
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 29 Posts: 49,951 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 531	screw the p30, get a p28 with the hondata. its cheaper and will do the same thing. b20 doesn't have a knock sensor anyway. pr3 rods are way too short for a b20's stroke. you need ls/b20 length rods when using the ls/b20 crank. jdm p30 pistons offer more compression than pr3's. how can you figure compression, when you never mention a head. b20? ls? b16? gsr? itr? ctr?

10-12-2004, 02:41 PM	#4
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 29 Posts: 49,951 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 531	b16 pistons will fit ls rods like stock. i'm not a nitrous expert, so im not going to comment on it... but lord knows, my built motor would never see it. a stock d-series, all day... cuz who caers if you blow up-- but not my 3k motor with 3k in parts on it. F that shit.

10-14-2004, 05:23 PM	#13
sohcslammer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,193 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 35	Thanx Cal. I wanted to get some more torque because the weight of the car coupled with the lack of torque of the B16 is driving me nuts. I just found out today that I bought the car with a bad piston ring though. So, without having the luxury of time to save up for a B20, pistons, cams, valvesprings, oil lines, etc; I have decided to just replace my pistons and rings with some ctrs. cost effective and a little more oomph I'm hoping. __________________ Latest project - 1 fucking fast 99 SI

10-14-2004, 05:28 PM	#14
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,530 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	Crap. I closed the window before the post was done sending.... A good guess that people like to use is about a 4% increase in torque/power per full point of compression. Use that as a rough guide if you want. Invest in more aggressive cams too. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

10-14-2004, 05:42 PM	#15
sohcslammer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,193 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 35	With those CTR pistons do you think the CTR cams will be enough, or would you go with like a crower 403 or a comp 57200? I have a friend with the CTRs for sale for $300. __________________ Latest project - 1 fucking fast 99 SI

10-14-2004, 09:51 PM	#16
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,530 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	The CTR cams for $300 is an ok price. I would probably go with something a bit more aggressive myself though. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

10-14-2004, 10:08 PM	#17
Arachnid Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 211 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 14	i say for your b16 get some pimp-a$$ aggressive cams with unparalleled head work and then get the jdm p30 pistons to increase the compression.(it should shouldn't it?) you'll be quite a formidable apponent. a b20 is too much of a hassle for me. stupid unbalanced crank, weak cylinder walls, gay compression, etc. but then again b20z is a challenger with a vtec head on there. you guys argue too much!!! hahaha.

10-15-2004, 03:36 AM	#18
driverunknown Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 25 Posts: 1,482 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: Boosted B16 in ej1 Rep Power: 26	teasing and mockery keeps people humble. Good luck with the build. __________________ The swap is completed. Dented oil pans will kill vtec. Now boosted! Vouches: Wanderinman

10-15-2004, 01:07 PM	#20
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 29 Posts: 49,951 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 531	ctr pistons are also 81mm bore and won't fit in the 84mm b20 block why even bring it up?

10-15-2004, 02:01 PM	#23
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 29 Posts: 49,951 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 531	bah- you two names screwed me up-- sohcthis, sohcthat

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