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brian11to1 · 08-24-2005, 02:03 AM

Poor Mans Type R + Boost (B16 head, gsr shortblock w/LS crank)
**Bold & Italic items are my concerns**

Block: B18C1 Block, LS Crank, Wiseco Pistons, Eagle H-beam Rods, ITR oil/water pump, all OEM honda gaskets/bearings/belts, ARP head studs, ARP rod bolts...
Head: B16A head (gen1), GSR Cams, Skunk2 IM, Hondata IM gasket...

-Since I plan on running a Full-Race Kit, I will be using their manifold. What trim (B16Head, B18C1block) for the turbo. I want 9psi daily.

-Should I use aftermarket or OE pistons. If I went with OE, should I just use the GSR Pistons/Rods? If I use aftermarket, what CR should I have? Lower than 9:1 or 9.5:1.

-Im thinking of using an LS crank (for a tad more torque and it will be balanced/blue printed) in the C1 block, I would then need what size rods? Since hte LS has longer stroke than the GSR.

I know, I know this is a VTEC build, but help me out.

civicious · 08-24-2005, 12:40 PM

No, you cannot use B16 headstuds.

Get the manifold/downpipe for a GSR.

If you're planning on boosting and keeping OEM pistons, I'd go with the GSR's. As far as rods, if you keep stock pistons you have to keep stock rods. GSR rods with ARP bolts should be fine. Really, in my opinion, you don't even need ARP bolts, because you aren't going to be revving any higher than the GSR redline, and aren't going to be boosting anything incredible, and GSR rod bolts should be just fine.

I woulnd't go any lower than that. Shit, if I were doing it myself, I'd go 10:1. Boost = more power. Higher compression = more power. Boost + higher compression = more power. Period. Sure, people will say 'but it's going to detonate if you have higher compression with boost' or some shit like that. My response to them: TUNE THAT SHIT!

formby · 08-24-2005, 12:48 PM

b204dr · 08-24-2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by civicious@Aug 24 2005, 12:40 PM
No, you cannot use B16 headstuds.

Get the manifold/downpipe for a GSR.

If you're planning on boosting and keeping OEM pistons, I'd go with the GSR's. As far as rods, if you keep stock pistons you have to keep stock rods. GSR rods with ARP bolts should be fine. Really, in my opinion, you don't even need ARP bolts, because you aren't going to be revving any higher than the GSR redline, and aren't going to be boosting anything incredible, and GSR rod bolts should be just fine.

I woulnd't go any lower than that. Shit, if I were doing it myself, I'd go 10:1. Boost = more power. Higher compression = more power. Boost + higher compression = more power. Period. Sure, people will say 'but it's going to detonate if you have higher compression with boost' or some shit like that. My response to them: TUNE THAT SHIT!

Quoted post

and will likes blowing shit up! - lower comp is always easier to tune-and more safe
higher comp = more power - less room for error -
of course we all know this were all honda swapers !

brian11to1 · 08-24-2005, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by civicious@Aug 24 2005, 11:40 AM
No, you cannot use B16 headstuds.

Get the manifold/downpipe for a GSR.

If you're planning on boosting and keeping OEM pistons, I'd go with the GSR's. As far as rods, if you keep stock pistons you have to keep stock rods. GSR rods with ARP bolts should be fine. Really, in my opinion, you don't even need ARP bolts, because you aren't going to be revving any higher than the GSR redline, and aren't going to be boosting anything incredible, and GSR rod bolts should be just fine.

I woulnd't go any lower than that. Shit, if I were doing it myself, I'd go 10:1. Boost = more power. Higher compression = more power. Boost + higher compression = more power. Period. Sure, people will say 'but it's going to detonate if you have higher compression with boost' or some shit like that. My response to them: TUNE THAT SHIT!

Quoted post

Ok, so GSR headstuds.

What about headgasket? GSR or B16? As far as gaskets, I know I need the GSR bottom end kit and the B16 top end kit. The headgasket is my only worry.

I do plan on using GSR pistons/rods. I know if I kept OEM pistons the only option for rods, is OEM as well. This I knew. I will more then likely use ARP bolts, just for added insurance. Im going to stay away from Higer CR + boost. Especially 9psi. And yes, I know its all in the tune, which MikeBergy and I will use TurboEdit.

brian11to1 · 08-24-2005, 04:47 PM

Im thinking of using an LS crank in the C1 block? I would then need what size rods?

brian11to1 · 08-24-2005, 05:03 PM

Post has been edited, please review it.

formby · 08-24-2005, 05:29 PM

i think if you use an ls crank in a gsr block youll need special pistons

erebunicrx · 08-24-2005, 05:33 PM

i would go with a sc61 turbo. a local kid was making 320 on 10 psi stock gsr. but you may want a better powerband. post what kinda power you want to make.

brian11to1 · 08-24-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by formby+Aug 24 2005, 04:29 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formby @ Aug 24 2005, 04:29 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>i think if you use an ls crank in a gsr block youll need special pistons

Quoted post
[/b]

Yea, aftermarket. But the length of the rods.

<!--QuoteBegin-erebunicrx@Aug 24 2005, 04:33 PM
i would go with a sc61 turbo. a local kid was making 320 on 10 psi stock gsr. but you may want a better powerband. post what kinda power you want to make.

Quoted post
[/quote]

I want maybe 300 daily driveable, dependable.

erebunicrx · 08-24-2005, 09:19 PM

ok, if you only want 300 first thing i would not do is buy a full race kit. there too expensive to only make 300hp. reliableity mostly has to do with tunning. so save the money from the kit, peiece a kit together and spend the rest on a good tunner local to you.

brian11to1 · 08-24-2005, 09:31 PM

300 @ 9psi i want to be able to do 400.

wanderinman · 08-24-2005, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brian11to1@Aug 24 2005, 08:31 PM
300 @ 9psi i want to be able to do 400.

Quoted post

Maybe I'm dumb, but I dont really understand this post... so far I've been really interested in learning what he has to learn, so please explain this.

brian11to1 · 08-25-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wanderinman+Aug 24 2005, 10:54 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wanderinman @ Aug 24 2005, 10:54 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-brian11to1@Aug 24 2005, 08:31 PM
300 @ 9psi i want to be able to do 400.

Quoted post

Maybe I'm dumb, but I dont really understand this post... so far I've been really interested in learning what he has to learn, so please explain this.

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

Did you quote the wrong person?

So back on topic.

If I used an LS crank, what size would the rods need to be?

I want to go with 9:1 CR, I am using Wiseco Pistons from IB Spec.

What headgasket do I use. The B16 or the GSR, would it matter?

97CTR · 08-25-2005, 09:15 AM

Ls rods are 5.394"

kyleirwin · 08-25-2005, 09:34 AM

if you use an ls crank, you will need ls sized rods (stock ls, or aftermarket ls). ls spec. pistons will also work fine, no need for a custom piston.

i'm nearly positive that the gsr and b16 headgaskets are the same. although, if you were planning on goin' oem honda from the dealer, then i would buy one for a b16 seeing that honda parts are generally less expensive than their acura counterparts.

if you're shooting for 400 and no more, the full-race stage 1 kit with the t3/t04e turbo will support that fine. that turbo will also put your right abound your power goal of 300whp @ ~9psi. call todd up at full-race to discuss what trim and a/r will suit your application the best.

brian11to1 · 08-25-2005, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kylemarhx@Aug 25 2005, 08:34 AM
if you use an ls crank, you will need ls sized rods (stock ls, or aftermarket ls). ls spec. pistons will also work fine, no need for a custom piston.

i'm nearly positive that the gsr and b16 headgaskets are the same. although, if you were planning on goin' oem honda from the dealer, then i would buy one for a b16 seeing that honda parts are generally less expensive than their acura counterparts.

if you're shooting for 400 and no more, the full-race stage 1 kit with the t3/t04e turbo will support that fine. that turbo will also put your right abound your power goal of 300whp @ ~9psi. call todd up at full-race to discuss what trim and a/r will suit your application the best.

Quoted post

ahhh, wow. finally the answers i was needing.

so, i can use LS rods (oe or aftermarket), and basically a piston designed for an LS (oe or aftermarket)? Very nice, very nice. Ill get the B16 gasket kit, it should save a little scratch, eh?

97CTR · 08-25-2005, 01:51 PM

If you are getting your pistons from Import Builders, just tell Jeff what your needs are and he will hook you right up with the right rod and piston combo.

brian11to1 · 08-25-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 97CTR@Aug 25 2005, 12:51 PM
If you are getting your pistons from Import Builders, just tell Jeff what your needs are and he will hook you right up with the right rod and piston combo.

Quoted post

When he replies to my email, I am going to more then likely go through with getting IB spec 9:1 wiseco super dupers and IB spec eagle h beam rods. So now, the thread is basically for progress notation.

kyleirwin · 08-26-2005, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brian11to1@Aug 25 2005, 12:16 PM
so, i can use LS rods (oe or aftermarket), and basically a piston designed for an LS (oe or aftermarket)? Very nice, very nice. Ill get the B16 gasket kit, it should save a little scratch, eh?

Quoted post

yes on the rods and pistons. there are a couple people on h-t and/or ebay that sell a complete aftermarket gasket kit for like $140, bottom and top end. if you wanna go oem honda, then heeltoeauto.com sell's complete gasket kits and discounted prices. might wanna check them against local honda dealer or wherever you source honda parts to see where you can get a better deal.

brian11to1 · 08-26-2005, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kylemarhx+Aug 26 2005, 12:13 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kylemarhx @ Aug 26 2005, 12:13 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-brian11to1@Aug 25 2005, 12:16 PM
so, i can use LS rods (oe or aftermarket), and basically a piston designed for an LS (oe or aftermarket)? Very nice, very nice. Ill get the B16 gasket kit, it should save a little scratch, eh?

Quoted post

yes on the rods and pistons. there are a couple people on h-t and/or ebay that sell a complete aftermarket gasket kit for like $140, bottom and top end. if you wanna go oem honda, then heeltoeauto.com sell's complete gasket kits and discounted prices. might wanna check them against local honda dealer or wherever you source honda parts to see where you can get a better deal.

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

I actually have them bookmarked. Ill do that tomorrow. got some names of HT members so I can PM em?

I talked to Jeff, Im getting H beams and 9:1 IB Specs Wiseco SuperDupers!!!

Uhm, but I dont know. Im trying to figure something else out. Where to get the uhm, yea the shortblock.

kyleirwin · 08-26-2005, 03:01 AM

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1277864&page=1 that's a link to the guy's thread that sells the gasket kits.

http://estores.merchantpartners.com/pn280/...products_id=147
there's the link for the genuine honda lower end gasket kit from heel toe auto.
http://estores.merchantpartners.com/pn280/...products_id=169
that's a link to the top end kit. says it's for a itr/b16, but i believe everything but the IM gasket will fit on a gsr head.

if your budget allows, i'd spring for the genuine honda stuff, at least for the headgasket... even more so if you're going to be boosting.

brian11to1 · 08-26-2005, 01:30 PM

I have a friend that works at the honda dealer back home, he's checking on prices for me. so we'll see how the OE rebuild kits goes. the least I will do is get OEM cam seals, IM and EX manifold gaskets along with the headgasket.

brian11to1 · 08-26-2005, 07:40 PM

Got one quick question. Putting the LS crank into the GSR, would this make it a 1.833L engine?

Bore = 81 and Stroke = 89.

Also, I looked for the displacement computer, found one. the Formula is

pi/4 * bore^2blah blah

what does the ^ mean? im not math genious, but ive never seen the ^ before.

kyleirwin · 08-26-2005, 08:55 PM

^ means, "to the power of". or in this case, since it is ^2, also means "squared".
3^2 = 3² = 3·3 = 9

and yes, the ls crank will give you slightly more displacement with it's 89mm stroke rather than the gsr/itr's 87.2mm.

the formula for figuring the displacement of the engine is very simple.
it's the same as figuring the volume of a shape just like you did in middle school.
base x height will get you the displacement of a cylinder.
being that the base (cylinder area) is a circle, it makes it just a bit more complicated. the forumla is below.

pi · r² · h

pi = 3.1415926535...
r = radius = cylinder bore divided by (/) 2.
h = height = stroke.
² = ^2 = to the power of two = squared.

plug in the numbers.

3.1415926535 · 40.5² · 89

according to math's "order of operations", you take care of the power equation first. then the rest of the multiplication.

3.1415926535 · 1640.25 · 89 = 458616.7641400375

that's the volume of one cylinder, multiply that by the number of cylinders (4) and you get the volume (displacement) of the engine in cubic millimeters.

458616.7641400375 · 4 = 1834467.0565656015

divide it by 1000 to convert it from cubic ml's to cubic centimeters (cc's).

1834467.0565656015 / 1000 = 1834.4670565656015

and that is your 1.834L LS engine.

i'll spare you the math, but the gsr/itr's displacement is 1797cc's which gives the ls stroked engine a ~37cc displacement advantage.

08-24-2005, 02:03 AM	#1
brian11to1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,000 iTrader: 2 / 100% Rep Power: 111	Poor Mans Type R + Boost (B16 head, gsr shortblock w/LS crank) Bold & Italic items are my concerns Block: B18C1 Block, LS Crank, Wiseco Pistons, Eagle H-beam Rods, ITR oil/water pump, all OEM honda gaskets/bearings/belts, ARP head studs, ARP rod bolts... Head: B16A head (gen1), GSR Cams, Skunk2 IM, Hondata IM gasket... -Since I plan on running a Full-Race Kit, I will be using their manifold. What trim (B16Head, B18C1block) for the turbo. I want 9psi daily. -Should I use aftermarket or OE pistons. If I went with OE, should I just use the GSR Pistons/Rods? If I use aftermarket, what CR should I have? Lower than 9:1 or 9.5:1. -Im thinking of using an LS crank (for a tad more torque and it will be balanced/blue printed) in the C1 block, I would then need what size rods? Since hte LS has longer stroke than the GSR. I know, I know this is a VTEC build, but help me out. __________________ 90 Integra Sedan B20V 225 / 153 I DO NOT answer tech questions via PM. Use the forums!!!

08-24-2005, 12:40 PM	#2
civicious FüK-VTEC Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Age: 23 Posts: 8,409 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: 07 Nissan Frontier, 90 CRX Si, 06 ZX6R racebike, chopped-out 02 Yamaha V-Star Rep Power: 189	No, you cannot use B16 headstuds. Get the manifold/downpipe for a GSR. If you're planning on boosting and keeping OEM pistons, I'd go with the GSR's. As far as rods, if you keep stock pistons you have to keep stock rods. GSR rods with ARP bolts should be fine. Really, in my opinion, you don't even need ARP bolts, because you aren't going to be revving any higher than the GSR redline, and aren't going to be boosting anything incredible, and GSR rod bolts should be just fine. I woulnd't go any lower than that. Shit, if I were doing it myself, I'd go 10:1. Boost = more power. Higher compression = more power. Boost + higher compression = more power. Period. Sure, people will say 'but it's going to detonate if you have higher compression with boost' or some shit like that. My response to them: TUNE THAT SHIT! __________________ CMRA #265 http://www.myspace.com/civicious AIM: greyfades

08-24-2005, 12:48 PM	#3
formby learning in progress Join Date: Feb 2003 Age: 27 Posts: 5,742 iTrader: 4 / 100% Ride: 00' Montero sport, 99' lsv civic Rep Power: 93	__________________ SOMETIMES IN LIFE WE ALL NEED CHANGE! http://pandora.com/

08-24-2005, 04:47 PM	#6
brian11to1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,000 iTrader: 2 / 100% Rep Power: 111	Im thinking of using an LS crank in the C1 block? I would then need what size rods? __________________ 90 Integra Sedan B20V 225 / 153 I DO NOT answer tech questions via PM. Use the forums!!!

08-24-2005, 05:03 PM	#7
brian11to1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,000 iTrader: 2 / 100% Rep Power: 111	Post has been edited, please review it. __________________ 90 Integra Sedan B20V 225 / 153 I DO NOT answer tech questions via PM. Use the forums!!!


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08-24-2005, 05:29 PM	#8
formby learning in progress Join Date: Feb 2003 Age: 27 Posts: 5,742 iTrader: 4 / 100% Ride: 00' Montero sport, 99' lsv civic Rep Power: 93	i think if you use an ls crank in a gsr block youll need special pistons __________________ SOMETIMES IN LIFE WE ALL NEED CHANGE! http://pandora.com/

08-24-2005, 05:33 PM	#9
erebunicrx my name is Dale Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bristol ct Posts: 2,111 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: cbr 929rr Rep Power: 35	i would go with a sc61 turbo. a local kid was making 320 on 10 psi stock gsr. but you may want a better powerband. post what kinda power you want to make. __________________ 03 mustang mach1, procharged, built motor, 6sp swap, built rear. 525whp @9psi 00 cbr 929rr 420 conversion -1 +2

08-24-2005, 09:19 PM	#11
erebunicrx my name is Dale Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bristol ct Posts: 2,111 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: cbr 929rr Rep Power: 35	ok, if you only want 300 first thing i would not do is buy a full race kit. there too expensive to only make 300hp. reliableity mostly has to do with tunning. so save the money from the kit, peiece a kit together and spend the rest on a good tunner local to you. __________________ 03 mustang mach1, procharged, built motor, 6sp swap, built rear. 525whp @9psi 00 cbr 929rr 420 conversion -1 +2

08-24-2005, 09:31 PM	#12
brian11to1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,000 iTrader: 2 / 100% Rep Power: 111	300 @ 9psi i want to be able to do 400. __________________ 90 Integra Sedan B20V 225 / 153 I DO NOT answer tech questions via PM. Use the forums!!!

08-25-2005, 09:15 AM	#15
97CTR Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 745 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 20	Ls rods are 5.394" __________________ 97 ex coupe Wire tuck in progress....

08-25-2005, 09:34 AM	#16
kyleirwin Retired OG Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vegas Age: 22 Posts: 2,422 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: Integra, Tahoe Rep Power: 43	if you use an ls crank, you will need ls sized rods (stock ls, or aftermarket ls). ls spec. pistons will also work fine, no need for a custom piston. i'm nearly positive that the gsr and b16 headgaskets are the same. although, if you were planning on goin' oem honda from the dealer, then i would buy one for a b16 seeing that honda parts are generally less expensive than their acura counterparts. if you're shooting for 400 and no more, the full-race stage 1 kit with the t3/t04e turbo will support that fine. that turbo will also put your right abound your power goal of 300whp @ ~9psi. call todd up at full-race to discuss what trim and a/r will suit your application the best. __________________ Kyle I. Collins, PmD.

08-25-2005, 01:51 PM	#18
97CTR Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 745 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 20	If you are getting your pistons from Import Builders, just tell Jeff what your needs are and he will hook you right up with the right rod and piston combo. __________________ 97 ex coupe Wire tuck in progress....

08-26-2005, 03:01 AM	#22
kyleirwin Retired OG Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vegas Age: 22 Posts: 2,422 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: Integra, Tahoe Rep Power: 43	http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1277864&page=1 that's a link to the guy's thread that sells the gasket kits. http://estores.merchantpartners.com/pn280/...products_id=147 there's the link for the genuine honda lower end gasket kit from heel toe auto. http://estores.merchantpartners.com/pn280/...products_id=169 that's a link to the top end kit. says it's for a itr/b16, but i believe everything but the IM gasket will fit on a gsr head. if your budget allows, i'd spring for the genuine honda stuff, at least for the headgasket... even more so if you're going to be boosting. __________________ Kyle I. Collins, PmD.

08-26-2005, 01:30 PM	#23
brian11to1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,000 iTrader: 2 / 100% Rep Power: 111	I have a friend that works at the honda dealer back home, he's checking on prices for me. so we'll see how the OE rebuild kits goes. the least I will do is get OEM cam seals, IM and EX manifold gaskets along with the headgasket. __________________ 90 Integra Sedan B20V 225 / 153 I DO NOT answer tech questions via PM. Use the forums!!!

08-26-2005, 07:40 PM	#24
brian11to1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,000 iTrader: 2 / 100% Rep Power: 111	Got one quick question. Putting the LS crank into the GSR, would this make it a 1.833L engine? Bore = 81 and Stroke = 89. Also, I looked for the displacement computer, found one. the Formula is pi/4 * bore^2blah blah what does the ^ mean? im not math genious, but ive never seen the ^ before. __________________ 90 Integra Sedan B20V 225 / 153 I DO NOT answer tech questions via PM. Use the forums!!!

08-26-2005, 08:55 PM	#25
kyleirwin Retired OG Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vegas Age: 22 Posts: 2,422 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: Integra, Tahoe Rep Power: 43	^ means, "to the power of". or in this case, since it is ^2, also means "squared". 3^2 = 3² = 3·3 = 9 and yes, the ls crank will give you slightly more displacement with it's 89mm stroke rather than the gsr/itr's 87.2mm. the formula for figuring the displacement of the engine is very simple. it's the same as figuring the volume of a shape just like you did in middle school. base x height will get you the displacement of a cylinder. being that the base (cylinder area) is a circle, it makes it just a bit more complicated. the forumla is below. pi · r² · h pi = 3.1415926535... r = radius = cylinder bore divided by (/) 2. h = height = stroke. ² = ^2 = to the power of two = squared. plug in the numbers. 3.1415926535 · 40.5² · 89 according to math's "order of operations", you take care of the power equation first. then the rest of the multiplication. 3.1415926535 · 1640.25 · 89 = 458616.7641400375 that's the volume of one cylinder, multiply that by the number of cylinders (4) and you get the volume (displacement) of the engine in cubic millimeters. 458616.7641400375 · 4 = 1834467.0565656015 divide it by 1000 to convert it from cubic ml's to cubic centimeters (cc's). 1834467.0565656015 / 1000 = 1834.4670565656015 and that is your 1.834L LS engine. i'll spare you the math, but the gsr/itr's displacement is 1797cc's which gives the ls stroked engine a ~37cc displacement advantage. __________________ Kyle I. Collins, PmD.

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