b16stalyun

im getting ready to put a gt2052 38mm 50/51 and it is a rather smaller turbo. i think its the size of about a t25. this turbo is gonna spool up to my full boost at like 2000rpm's @ 6psi. (stock motor). im concerned that it will run out of breathe in the higher rpm's. what do you guys think, im trying to reach ~200whp or close to it.

any feedback on this setup on how it will perform?

AHHVTEC

i think that turbo will get you there

92civicb18b1

You know what motor he's using??

AHHVTEC

im thinking its a d series

YBLEGAL

lol even tho his name is "B16......." haha

yeah dude, T25's will get you 200whp+ on your B16 (i'll assume)

b16stalyun

word, but what about the high rpms, is my power curve gonna drop drastically at 6-7k or will it hold full boost and power all the way through. would there be a a better choice turbo for a stock internal application that will get me SAFELY at 200whp DD?

im going with a fast spooling turbo becuase i dont want a dyno queen
im looking to catch full boost between 2000-3500rpms and make sure it lasts all the way through 7grand

b16stalyun

whats up blanco!

ight so, when im looking at the compressor maps mine looks like this


looks like i gotta do some research and try to figure out how to read this map.

YBLEGAL

just so you realize, when your motor is naturally aspirated, the power band doesnt drop off at the top do to lack of air. even at normal atmospheric pressure the motor wont starve of air. the power band wont drop off early due to turbo. that's more dependant on the cam profiles you choose. if anything, you'll reach max boost real early, and it'll just spin max boost for the rest of the power band. it might be all your stock motor needs to max out. either way, once it reaches full boost, that's it, your at full boost, the power will increase as per the motor's natural way. just because boost pressure is not rising, doesnt mean the powerband will fall on it's face.

i think the max psi for a typical T25 is like 25 or 28psi. that's more than i think the stock motor can handle (taking turbo size into account too). after full boost (if it's like 8psi for say), it's the wastegate's job to let any extra pressure escape out of the turbo system, and keep the boost at w/e level you choose. if max pressure is 28psi, and you have it set for 8psi, then 20psi will be blown off, or escaping the pressure system to keep it where it should be.

b16stalyun

so if the turbo makes boost real early, will it keep making as much power all the way through lets say 7200rpm. if im driving on the highway at 3800rpm and i down shift into 4th to race somone is the turbo going to still help me gain power up top.

i dont think what your saying is after its done making boost, my motor will perform as if it were n/a. at least i hope thats not what your saying. that may be a stupid question :S

after doing the math, if i want 250bhp(should be around ~200whp)
airflow: 250*11*.55/60 = 25lb/min
manifold pressure 25*639.6*(460+130) / .92 * 7200/2 * 97.6 =29.1
psia=14.7 minus 1 due to filter loss = 13.7
pressure ratio: 29.1 / 13.7 = 2.1

that would put me way off the chart for this specific turbo. isnt that bad?
now i know this is a stock motor with 100k, should i even atempt a bigger turbo or more psi?
or just be satisfied with this one.

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b16stalyun

not unspool, do you think i will reach my power goal with this size turbo EVEN though im off the performance island on these charts

b16stalyun

it looks like the gt28 would be a better choice turbo. make most of my power around mid-range
i would rather the turbo start spooling around 2500k rpms and reach peak at 6500rpms.

unfortunatlly a guy is giving me a deal on this turbo for 300$ so i suppose i dont really have a choice unless i want to spend 800$ on that turbo. do you think it would be safe to run more than 6psi on stock internals @ 100k miles. if so i could go with maybe 8psi.

i was gonna go with s/afc and a btm, but i think im going to go with greddy emanage or map 2 ecu. its almost the same price to go with emanage or map 2 than it is to buy both of those. do you think thats a better choice?

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YBLEGAL

wow fuck that!

full boost at 6500rpm? that's horrible turbo lag.

YBLEGAL

seriously, here, compare, Spooling Times?

YBLEGAL

you can get up to about 250whp on stock internals. STOP LOOKING AT PSI!

afc sucks. greddy emanage...why? crome! hondata!

where do you get these ideas...

b16stalyun

thats alot bigger turbo, if im hitting full boost at like 2grand wouldnt it stop producing power up top. thats what im getting out of reading that graph.

and i heard emanage ultimate was a good tuning device. i was told that if i went with a standalone ecu that my car wouldnt pass obd2 inspection

dont you need more psi with this turbo to reach my goal whp?

b16stalyun

ok, then what does the graph mean if im off the performance islands?
2.1 p/r
25lb/min
The T25 turbo used in the 1995-1999 DSMs is a Garrett turbo. This turbo has a .45 A/R with a 45 trim turbine and 55 trim compressor wheel. Note that although these numbers are similar to trim numbers in the T3/T04 turbos you cannot compare them since these wheels are in the T25 housings. These wheels are much smaller than the T3/T04 counterparts. The T25 struggles on a turbo Honda at high RPM but does offer good performance at low and midrange RPM.

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silver

The graph is a representation of airflow as a function of PR with efficiency numbers and compressor RPM superimposed over it.

2052 is small, and will be more expensive than what you could use. If you want 200 whp and 25 lbs/min, look at the stock 1st gen DSM turbo (TD05H-14b).

b16stalyun

The T25 struggles on a turbo Honda at high RPM but does offer good performance at low and midrange RPM.

so what happens at hi rpm's?

YBLEGAL

all it's saying is it cant support high horsepower motors! wow!!!

if your looking to push 500whp and this lil turbo only push's 25psi with low flow, your going to need way more than that amount of air flow to get you to 500whp, thus that turbo would struggle at high rpm where it's already fully spooled to 25psi and can't go higher where you otherwise would like it to.

on your stock motor, you only want 200whp, which is easy with a TDO5H-14b. you wont use anywhere near 25psi to accomplish 200whp, so thus the turbo will not struggle. it will produce it's max psi required to attain 200whp, then the wastegate will begin blowing off excess. and thus you will have lets say 8psi from 3,000rpm, all the way to redline, producing exponential power output based on the motor's build nature.

btw i'm putting a TDO5H-14b on my stock 10.4:1 B16A this winter. and looking to get 200whp daily. so..............ya.

b16stalyun

alright, i got it. i thought that if i was off the graph it was a bad thing and it would hurt my turbo or overwork it or it would stop making power when it went off the chart.
i thought the more psi you push the more power you get and the more you have to re-enforce your motor.

for example,
so if i wanted 250whp with this same turbo, wouldnt i have to increase psi to reach that goal?
AND
do you have to re-enforce your motor to run more pressure. even though it will be less than >250whp

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b16stalyun

thats really what i was meaning when i said start spooling at 3 and top at 6, i meant thats where i want my powerband to be. youll have to excuse me sometimes im a fucktard.

anyway, as far as the rest of the setup any feedback you can give me?
greddy emanage ultimate(shop said i wont pass obd2 inspection if i went with standalone ecu)
EGT, boost and wideband
440cc injectors

i will post dyno pic's in about a week or so

b16stalyun

i read somthing about valve overlap and having to get adjustable cam gears. will i need these?

b16stalyun

im gonna see if i can afford another turbo. if i can im thinking a t3/t04b or a t28. i may have to go with this turbo for the price im getting it for. I dont think it would be a good idea to spend more money on a bigger turbo and sacrafice money for engine management.

b16stalyun

so from what im reading, i should spend the extra $ and get gsr cam's and adjustable cam gears.
or at LEAST the cam gears? remember this is kinda a budget i dont really have the extra $ to spend on gsr cams.

I HATE MONEY THAT DOESNT GROW ON TREES

90DATeggy

i had that same turbo max spool was at 4200 rpm on my B18A1 on my old 4door teggy i got good gas milage and i had 170k on the ODO and i had 8PSI max