Ractive78

I want around 280 whp. Im going to save my money, but I want to leave the gsr with stock internals for now. So what is the best setup to recieve this kind of power?

SnailOnARampage

A stock GSR displaces: .06346046 cf/revolution. assuming that there is NO loss due to restriction or whatever, that will equate to 481.9 cf/m @ 7600 rpm on the stock GS-R engine.

A 84 mm GSR displaces .06826325 cf/revolution. assuming there is no loss due to restriction, that is 593.9 cf/m @ 8700 rpm. Inorder to actually have the power peak at 8700 you will need some seriously bad ass cams/valvesprings.

That all equals out to the bored gsr approximately 1.23 x the hp at the peak. That number there is not including the benefits of port/polishing and things like that. Lets add an additional 10 percent for better flow rates due to a nice polished head. That brings the bored out one to 1.353 x as good as the regular GSR @ their power peaks. Lets go ahead and add another 5% for good tuning. Its now at 1.42 x170 equalling 241 hp to the crank. Now put a turbo on there that is able to push all of the cf/m @ 10psi and you have you *very estimated* 410 crank hp, which will leave you at about 375 whp.

Now lets go and do this a slightly different way.

1933/1797 = 1.08 ...the bored gsr has a minimum of 1.08x the torque of the regular GSR based solely on displacemement. Multiply that by 127 and you get 137 ft/lbs. Lets add another 10 on there for good measure/good tuning/whatever, which brings us to a fairly normaly torque number for a heavily modified GSR....145 ft/lbs. Multiply 145 x 1.7 (10psi) and you get 250 ft/lbs. 250 x 8700/5252
(assuming no loss after torque peak) and you get 412 crank HP.

Yes you are actually getting very close to 400 whp, and its even going by my "flawed" and linear standards.

Okay now for the turbo part. I know you've told me that I am wrong like 6 times, but I still haven't heard a good reason as to why I am.

I was actually wrong in previous posts (it was very late) about my numbers of cf/m...but here are the revised ones.

Assuming those cf/m numbers for the engines are above, with your GSR setup, you will need a turbo that can push a little more than 600 cf/m @ 10 psi...which should be the same amount of oxygen as 1000 cubic feet of uncompressed air (provided its the same temp). If you get a turbo that can only push 500 cf/m @ 10 psi you will only be putting the equivalent of 833 cf of air into the engine,.

Okay, so seeing all that, you have 2 diff turbos. a t66 and a t88. we'll pretend that the t66 can push 500 cf/m @ 10 psi and the t88 can push 600 cf/m @ 10 psi.

On the bored GSR running 10 psi the t88 would be ideal, because the amount of air it can move is almost exactly what the bored out engine uses at 8700 rpm.

The t66 would be ideal for the stock gsr engine @ 10 psi because the stock GSR will be able to accept almost exactly how much air the turbo can pump into it.

Now, if you put the t88 on the stock gsr, you would be creating extra drag and lag which is un-necessary for that engine running at 10 psi. The t88 would only do any better on the stock GSR if you set the wastegate to 13 psi or something.

Now when you go over to the bored GSR will be getting more power with the t88, and the t66 will only be producing something like 8 psi at full throttle at the power peak (even though the waste gate is set to 10). However, if you set the waste gate down to 7 psi for both turbos, the t66 would be faster again.....

So.... with 10 psi reading at the map sensor at full throttle at a given rpm at a given temperature, the power output will actually be greater with the smaller turbo

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SnailOnARampage

The thing with turbos is, they do not actually cause the engine to accept more cf/m. They just pump in air at the same rate...600 cf/m for example, but that air is compressed so that it is more dense, therefore yielding more oxygen to burn. And once again...600 cf compressed at 10 psi above ambient air pressure has the same o2 content as 1000 cf of uncompressed air

SnailOnARampage

at 10 psi (which is what I would consider to be the upper limit of boost an engine can accept and still be semi reliable on stock internals) you would make about 260 whp, if your turbo can push the appropriate amount of air into the engine. I havent actually looked up the flow rates for any turbos yet, so I can't tell you what will do that and what wont. Just make sure to run synthetic oil on the engine, so you arent as likely to bend/break/throw any rods. As for the health of your pistons, the synthetic oil will help too, but it will not do a damn thing to save you if you dont have good fuel management.

__________________
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SnailOnARampage

Can you tell me why 600 cf of air compressed at 10 psi at 70 degrees will not have the same oxygen content as 1000 cf of air uncompressed at 70 degrees? Or better yet, why 1000 cf of uncompressed air would not have the same o2 content as 500 cf compressed to 14.7 psi?

heterosapian

Ractive, Ive seen a guy put down 280whp with a gsr on 13?psi with just DSM injectors ( heres the install page, not the dyno, http://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech_projects...tors/index.html ) and an safc for fuel control, just make sure you cool the shit out of everything. The profec B is bar none the best boost controler ive come across in my experience with dsms.

Snail, psi does not dictate the volume of air. Please, understand this. Half of your posts have been arguing against physics. Sol's bicycle tire example was perfect. More pressure means more heat, not more air. Go ask Boyle.

Yes, you can compress a given amount of air into a smaller space. No, you cannot create matter. The number of air molecules you start with before compression is not going to increase. Sol's point, and mine, is that a larger turbo pulls in more air to begin with, therefore pushing more air after compression than a smaller turbo. The reason a given turbo will move more cfms at higher psi is because it has bigger/steeper/clipped/taller fins to compress all that air, and a bigger compressor housing to move it all through, not simply because more psi = more cfm. And Sol, Id be well impressed to see 400 hp at 10psi only because its hard to believe that a gsr, even one at almost 2liters, can move enough exhaust to get the turbine spooling on a turbo that can produce that many cfms at 10psi

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heterosapian

Synthetic oil... . Oh and snail, not to be a dick or anything, but do you actually have any experience with turbos?

GSRCRXsi

why do you say that?, all ive ever used in any of my cars is synthetic oil, and ive never had problems. my cars, including my B18C wich i have in my car now, have actually ran better with synthetic.

SnailOnARampage

Okay this is a waste of my time. Nobody has actually backed up any claim that I'm a dipshit. If im arguing against physics, please enlighten me. Why not go do some research about synthetic oil and save me the trouble of explaining it for the third time? Why not go look up all the dyno charts you can find, and when you come across one that proves me wrong, show it to me.

Ractive78

So I should go with a t88? or t66?

ryanwolfe911

quit listening to all these retards babble about cfm this and that. Just try what you think will work and let the results speak for themselves. Everyone's a technician. lol

J

I have no clue what snail said but it seems that he knows his shit, or he can bs his way through everything. Umm yeah, just do what seems like would be streetable in a stock gsr and use that. Off topic, the aftercooled vortech supercharger put down around 270 hp to the wheels in a stock si motor.

Ractive78

And what tranny should I use, I would like cable but would do hydro. ITR(hydro of course), GSR, LS, or B16?
Id prefer cable because I have a 1991 Integra rs

SnailOnARampage

Thank you, I think.

SnailOnARampage

This is more evidence to the *phenomenon* that, all other things being equal, 10 psi at the map sensor will only increase torque by 70 percent MAXIMUM

I dont know how you could think that from what I've posted. I have only posted that, if you have 2 bodies of air, one being under pressure (10 psi or whatever the fuck you want) provided the temperature is the same, the one under pressure is going to be more dense, and will yield more O2.

pissedoffsol

this right here blows everything out of the water.

go look at a compressor map.

heres a t3 60-trim.



here's a big T70



the inner ring is the one too look at.

they do NOT pump air in at the same rate. In fact, rate has NOTHING to do with this. rate is dv/dt, or acceleration or velocity (i forget which.. calculus sucks).

anyway, my point is this. at any given psi, X turbo will make X cfm, where as Y turbo will make Y cfm.

X != Y

pissedoffsol

ummm no.

your stock gsr on a t88! BAHAHAHAHAHA

not only will you lag till 10 grand, once it makes 2 psi, you will blow up.
that turbo id f'in huge.

I'd recommend a t3 60-1 or a t3/t04b

pissedoffsol

get a cable. it will make life much easier.
try to score a 93 gsr tranny (b17) if you can
if not, i'd say go with the SiR tranny

pissedoffsol

that's just some number that SEEMS to work for what you have seen.
problem is, its hard to find dynos- let alone dynos that say 10 psi on X motor on them.

pissedoffsol

STFU n00b. if you have nothing to say with any knowldge, get the fuck off my board.

pissedoffsol

exactly.
not necessarliy....

heat is a byproduct of the compression process. its the same way your motor gets "warmed up". that's the physics part- when humans run, we give off sweat as a byproduct. when air is compressed, it gives off heat.
heat leads to detonation, so we cool it with an intercooler.
so now, we have compressed air, and we cool it off, and send it in, hopefully just a couple degrees above ambeint temp.

who the fuck is boyle???
thats exactly what the compressor side of a turbo does.
right. but everything that happens BEFORE the compression process isn't even involved, as its not part of the pressureized charge pipe yet.
you got it

we shall see. and yes, i have a head that will hold it

SnailOnARampage

I think we arent even arguing about the same thing anymore....I dont think we are on the same page or ...hell... even in the same book.

One thing that will at least get me to shut up will be showing me dyno charts showing that a big ass turbo at 10 psi will increase the torque of an engine by more than 70 percent.

pissedoffsol

like i said, its impossible to find reliable dynos. unless you know of places. i know i don't. theres a few here and there.
but does it say what size turbo? what motor? what boost level? ya know what i mean?

SnailOnARampage

hondata has a few....i'll have to go look for some.

Domeskilla

Well, without hard proofed pics.