eastonball

OK, heres the deal, I dontknow if I should go Turbo, or Supercharge. HEres what I'm running for a motor....


B18B Block
Type R Pistons
88-91 JDM B16 Head
Type R Cams, Reatiners and springs
Skunk 2 Intake manafold
8Lb Flywheel


I love turbos, I've always ha da turbo. But I dunno, if the Supercharger is better. It's easier to install, And its less boost, and safer for my motor...

Any ideas, would be great thanks!

cycloneb18c3

turbo is cheaper, then again how many people have supercharger? the vortech supercharger on a b16 gives it like 117hp on 8-9lbs. Vortech Webpage for B16 chargers

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Citizen_Insane

READ LOCO'S ARTICLE!!!!!!!!!! Its pinned in this section and tells you EVNERYTHING you need to know.

-btw, vortech superchargers BLOW. -If you need to ask why, READ LOCO'S ARTICLE!!!!!

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cycloneb18c3

they blow alright, then why do they put out 277hp on a stock engine? just bolting on a turbo will never get you this high on a stock engine.

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2000Si

but hey you could also check out the 50 billion other topics regarding this. Oh well, we all do it.

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pissedoffsol

serach. seriously. use turbo vs super as your search criteria. you will find 2311231 threads

MaaseyRacer

I personally disagree with loco. It is more because I auto-x, reguarless of what turbo you have there is turbo lag, and it messes up launch speed on a FWD veichle which already has problems launching. When you auto-x you are in first and second gear for the most part, and granted a lot of that will be in the turbo, but you need the power through out the RPMs and that is where the blower really works its magic. So what if they blower does not make stupid fast crazy dyno numbers all them time like a lot of turbo applications do, it makes the power where it counts. For super chargers check out Jackson Racing, and ask your self what you want with car, straight line speed, daily drive ability, auto-x, road course, ect.

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Tenzodelsol

go with a turbo pound for pound they are a much better upgrade less heat, not limited to rpms more fuel efficient and unlike a turbocharger a supercharger is kind of pointless to run unless you already have a pretty damn beefy powerplant

pissedoffsol

a properly sized turbo for a low- power upgrade (like the jackson at its stock 6 pounds) will be fully spooled on a b-series by 2500 rpms. if you're under 2500 rpms on an autox course, you did something wrong, or are in the wrong gear.

[Freemantle]

Ditto for drag racing and daily driving. Explain to me how and RPM driven sytem is superior to a turbo. You think the low end torque helps you launch? It will hurl your moment of inertia to the rear of your car so fast that you'll get whiplash from the wheelhop.

For almost all sport compact applications, a turbocharger is a wiser choice. You can do a centrifical or roots type blower. They're easy to install and stupid easy to tune, but the high heat and related low compressor efficency will give you problems down the road (Read: Detonation).

A Turbocharger will make the same power as a supercharger. CFM is CFM. Or you could deal with:

CFM>3000 RPM

to

CFM-Heat-Belt/Shaft Drag>1500 RPM

That's why boost level is arbitrary. 6lbs of pressure on a turbocharger is a whole different ballgame than 6lbs on a supercharger that soaks up a good amount of the engine's original power.

If you want to be unique/tow boats/wheel hop down the track - Then a supercharger is for you.

If you want free power in useful areas of your powerband - Them I'm pretty sure a turbocharger can suit your needs. There's a reason they are more popular.

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reckedracing

if you're that worried about the turbo lag then throw a f'in fuel injector in your turbo mani right off the head... guaranteed no lag...

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Havok

IMO, that article is biased--it's basically trashing SC's in every form...Anyways, back to your questions...Type R pistons and turbo aren't an ideal setup, but...If you are looking for a decent upgrade, get an SC...It depends on what you are going to use it for, and how much HP you want.

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reckedracing

there is a reason its biased....

cause superchargers suck ass

they are a f'in aborted fetus of forced induction setups for people that are too damn lazy or retarted to hook up a turbo manifold and downpipe...

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Havok

Steve ran a 13.9 with a JRSC and exhaust in an otherwise stock 99 Civic Si.

Response?

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reckedracing

UHM, CONGRATULATIONS?
lol

to each his own, but i think turbos are far superior as far as horsepower robbed from motor vs horsepower produced...

and who wants to wait till redline to see max boost from a supercharger?

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Havok

That's what you should have said the 1st time, not"SC's are fucking garbage" or whatever.

And SC improves power all around, unlike turbos with their "badass" lag....an S2K with a turbo feels like a D15B7 for about 2K rpms. Some turbo lag isn't noticeable at all, others you can defintely tell.

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darwins_vtech

Yeah, with that much invested, he should be faster, my buddy has a B16 no boost, gutted car and revs to 8'800. He runs 13.7 w/ drag slicks. throw a JRSC on that and he would blow "steve" away. Just saying. I was thinking JRSC. then I got a reality check, money/effic. and realized turbo was the way to go. But I guess there are the occassional people out there who don't want to get there hands dirty by having to work with oil supply lines though. Turbo is the way to go.

Darin

2000Si

what? superchargers are known for having instant boost. Which is why you see them on big V6 and V8s. Instant boost=crazy low end torque.

Since when did Honda have any low end torque...or torque at all for that matter?

Superchargers belong on cars with BIG engines that need low end grunt called torque, turbos are for small engine applications, and as you've read, if you do your homework right, the correct turbo size will allow you to have full boost as low as 2500 or so rpm. That is MINIMAL lag since most people launch at 3000+ anyway.

Superchargers are for V6s, small and big block V8s, and wanna be boys that think they're cool to be different.

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reckedracing

i still think SC are f'in junk man
look at the boost curves

SC's are good for a bump in power across the board, and they are better for low end torque bumps...
but a SC has lets say 1 pound boost at idle, then a direct correlation to a 6 pound boost at 7 or 8K redline
so at 3K you may have around 2 or 3 pounds boost?
and then from 3 to 6 between 3K and 8K redline
with a turbo you'll have 2 pounds boost at appox 1500K, and the a full 8 pounds boost from 2500 to redline
turbo just makes more sense to me and just about everyone else thats into forced induction for hondas...

and besides that, you can make your own turbo setup, and i have heard so many horror stories regarding both vortech and jackson racing, i would never run the risk on any of my motors...

and like i said before, if you are that concerned with lag put an injector right off the head in the turbo mani... you will NEVER have lag...

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NotUrAverage_Si

I have turbo lag like a mofo, but it doesn't bother me.

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email: boostfedEM1@yahoo.com

<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE(dohch22a4 @ Sep 20 2004, 11:44 AM)</div><div class=\'quotemain\'> Please, Obi Wan B, you're our only hope.
</div>
<span style=\"font-size:36pt;line-height:100%\"> <a href=\"http://www.nissantech.com\" target=\"_blank\">www.NissanTech.co m</a></span>

Loco Honkey

I'm not even sure where to start with this thread, so I'm just going to jump around...

My article is biased for a reason- because it's the truth based on proven facts and first hand experience.

Havok- I have said my piece in the article. I wholeheartedly encourage you to dispute my article. In fact, I welcome it, because nobody has been able to prove to me that superchargers are superior to turbos when it comes to performance.

So what? My dad ran mid 12's with a '69 Chevelle 454SS back in the 70's without any blower. What's your point?

And you will NEVER have a turbo last more than a few hundred miles. If you're going to use an anti- lag setup like rally cars, you vent the BOV air into the exhaust upstream of the turbo. Either way, expect to replace turbos with every tank of gas.

Yeah, might suck for 2K RPM, but for the other 7000 RPM, it goes like a raped monkey. Turbo lag has to do with turbo sizing and several other factors. Like I've pounded into all your thick heads, you can make a turbocharged car act like a blown or NA car, response wise. Go drive any of the new Saabs.

You have the right answer for the wrong reason- the real killer is volumetric efficiency. Roots type blowers are about 50% efficient, which makes a shitload of heat. Heat = no power. Centrifugal compressors (turbos) are around 75% efficient. Less heat = more power. 25% VE differential is a HUGE difference.

Where do they make that power? How much area is under the curve? How much HP do they make in the 3000- 7000 RPM range compared to a similarly sized turbocharger on the same engine?

Go root around Honda Tech. You'll find about 40 people that are making ~300 or more HP on stock B series blocks with "just" a bolt on turbo.

Read my Turbo 101 article. Boost is only as safe as your fuel delivery.

I'm done my ass kicking. I'll now retire to my cave from which I crawled from. If Havok can muster a compelling argument, I'll reply, otherwise, ponder my wisdom.

Seany-izzle

hahaha...ji just busted a nut of knowledge!!

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Havok

My point is I'm not bashing on all motor setup, like you are with SC's. How can you even compare NA to FI?

All I am saying is that you are wrong by saying SC's are worthless. That is called an opinion...Many people on here have timeslips to prove you otherwise. I respect your opinion, but that biased article shouldn't have been AotM.

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reckedracing

werd...

and the injector suggestion was not meant to be taken seriously, but i do however feel special for my reply being mentioned in the knowledge nut... lol

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MaaseyRacer

I too disagree with Loco, as stated earlier, I am looking for a more linear power curver that the super charger brings in, unlike the turbo with is power less until 2500k on hairdyer turbo set ups and powerless to upwards of 45k on bigger tubo set ups. Don't get me wrong I definatly love the power that turbos can bring I just think that they have there time and place.
On a Honda motor that does not make power till minimum 4500 rpm when VTEC kicks in it is nice to have bottom end than have even more of a power lag before the turbo and vtec kick in. Yes i know that turbos are proven to make a but load of power on a dyno, so what look at the dyno plots and look at the curve and see where it builds its power. The blower is the closest thing to have N/A response and turbo all out power, and in my opinion it is a good comprimise. In a perfect world I wish someone would come out with a functional hydro charger or something like that.

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----------------------