pissedoffsol

but the GSR costs $2000 more than the LS initial cost.

take that 2 grand, get a block girdle to hold the bottom to hold the higher revs
port the head to flow similar to a vtec
get turbo cams.

that should do about 2 grand... maybe less.

and now, with this same inital cost- i don't see why the ls wont hold its own against a GSR. and to those of you in doubt- fucking bring it :P

kyleirwin

but why built a imitation gsr out of a ls, when you could have the real thing for the same price and you'll still have a better r/s ratio with the gsr.

djextremity

Because that imitation GSR, which is making the same power as the real GSR, will take to boost better than the GSR will. It is making the same power at lower compression also, which means lower octane fuel, and higher boost when turboed.

kyleirwin

oops.

djextremity

lol

pissedoffsol

no not at all. any turbo setup requires premium gas

95_civicext

this is nuts!! but it is one of THE best threads i've seen on turbo yet. I've seen both ways (LS and GSR) with stock internals running at the track on the same boost (6-8psi) and run very close times. I don't remember the exact numbers, but the gsr always ran faster. now, i do have to say that driver skill has a lot to do with numbers at the track. I got issues of my own and it doesn't have to do with B-series at all. I'm buildin up a D16Z6. Its a lot harder to find good turbo parts for the lil D-series. but i'll be damned if i'm gonna fail to get my lil D to get into the 12's. It's gonna take a lot more money than building a B. oh, and BTW i agree with pissedoffsol on the turbo............ 60-1 is the way to go. L8z

__________________
It's just never done!

chet

stock vs stock

gsr motors put down way more power.

ls motors run out of power at 6500...where as a gsr will make power to around 7800.

and the torque is virtually the same, with the gsr making slightly more.

posting one dyno chart you found over the internet is pointless, you don't know about the compression of both motors, the validity of either dyno, the person turning the wrenches, the temperature, other unlisted mods, and so on.

like i've said before, a gsr motor and gsr transmission will be the better platform to boost from. gsr bottom end is better, is designed for higher revs and has a better rod/stroke ratio. plus, gsr transmissions are infinitely better than the WEAK ls transmissions.

vtec also allows for more tuning and more overall power.

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pissedoffsol

In all reality, the ITR is the best platform. but its expensive as hell to boost. you need a sick tuner to not blow up.

what it comes down to in the end, is that dollar for dollar, an LS will hang with a gsr, if not be faster. there's a lot you can do with the 2 grand difference in initial cost to the LS to make it as good, if not better, than a stock GSR.

examples i said before-
z10 girlde- holds the bottom end for revs. - 300
port/polish the LS head - 300 ish depending on the shop, maybe even cheaper
sleeve the f00ker if you are that worried about r/s ratio - 1300
take the wife out for dinner in your faster than stock GSR turbo with the extra $100 you have left over.
r/s ratio is a bunch of talked about bullshit. there's chevy 350s with 1.4 r/s ratios revving to 9 grand.

My entire arguement, is dollar for dollar, NOTHING beats an LS/T as far as power output (n20 excluded).

If i can run .2 slower in a stock ls with the same turbo kit as a stock gsr - I will be happy knowing that moron in the gsr spent 2 grand to beat me by .2 in the 1/4. to me, its not worth it. It's like going N/A. $5000 later in cams, head work, and stuff, and you shaved a second off your time. it's a waste of fucking money

djextremity

No Brian, I meant lower octane gas until you boost the engine. The main premise of that post was before you boost it, except right at the end there.

prawjEKt Cx

i'm with pissedoffsol all the way, preach on brother

HondasHateMe

is this argument based on which motor is better for boost? or which is more cost effective? I think thats where Brian and Chet's opinions are conflicting. Yes, initially the LS can be built for turbo for less than the GSR, including the price of the engine. Buuuuuuut...if you had the chance to pick up a GSR longblock vs. an LS longblock for the same price, both intended to be built for a turbo application, which would you choose? In theory I kinda sorta have this choice to make, long story....personally my choice would be the GSR....

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93 GSR/B16 Hybrid del Sol
96 Beat-Ass Civic EX

D See 2

yea, thats the way i feel, for example, if you were given 15K to spend on a GSR-T AND an LS-T you could make the GSR-T faster.

pissedoffsol

theroy or not- you will NOT find a complete gsr swap for 1200. period. if it is, its stolen- so fuck you anyway
for 15 grand- at that point, its really way out of this discussion. we were talking stock for stock with the same kit and tranny on either motor.

and i will repeat- for the money, the LS/t is the hardest hitting.
for all out- fuck the gsr- h22 to 2.7L

all or nothing in my book.

preluderjs

Where would you get that stroked to 2.7? I thought someone said the H wasn't too strong for boost and stroking it to 2.7 seems kind of crazy if you want to boost it. I could be wrong like always

pissedoffsol

ask stephan papadakis.

D See 2

i agree that for the money, ls/t is the hardest hitting however, given more funds you can always make the gsr/t faster i.e.:

port the ls head to flow like a gsr head, with excess money, port the gsr head to flow even better than stock.

let me put it to you this way, it kinda like having two cups of water, in one cup labeled GSR/t, the water temp is 35 degrees and in the other cup labeled LS/t the temp is 50 degrees. Put them both in the freezer and see which one freezes first. obviously the cup marked GSR/t will freeze first. same thing with these engines... you can ALWAYS make the GSR/t more powerful simply because your starting off with a better platofrm. it's all about the foundation.

__________________
Garage:
1992 CX Hatch > Current Money Pit
Grave:
R.I.P. 1995 Integra GSR
R.I.P. 1990 DX Hatch
R.I.P. 1990 CRX Si

onefastcivic

do not run turbonetics turbo kits they are shitty. my buddy from str (matt) he works there has had this civic sohc in there for almost a year and a half because the turbo is horrible they have put three new turbonetics turbos on the car and all of them have gone to shit

pissedoffsol

the older ones suck. the new ones are decent. the ball bearing ones, are bad ass

preluderjs

Built H22a w/ Turbonetics T3-T04e stage 3. Where can I learn more about turbos because I'm looking at this ( http://64.225.76.178/main.htm ) and I'm lost. I just want to understand different sizing and what kind of effect changing something will have on the engine cause I'm not even sure exaclty what the hell stage 3 means.

SolReaver

http://www.hondaswap.com/turbo/index.php

preluderjs

I think I got the basics, I just feel like there's more to be learned than what is there, like what kind of effect changing the T3's (compressor wheel) trim will have or things like that. Real technical details, know what I mean? Because right now if I were to try to order something here:
( http://64.225.76.178/main.htm ) I would'nt know wtf I was doing.

pissedoffsol

FYi- that is NOT turbonetics website.

there's is http://turboneticsinc.com

preluderjs

Ooooh, it did look different than I remember....

shuturmowth

this coming from a honda owner?????????? isnt that one of the things we like about honda...........