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MJ93Hatchback · 07-02-2008, 01:37 PM

So my B16A SiR-II is on the way!!! Ordered from Hmotorsonline and after I get it in (the car that is) I was wondering what my next step should be... I am going to have to get new tires soon so thats going to be the first step (also since I mentioned it some recommendation for tires would be appreciated, i will be getting 205/40/17) but I was thinking of either getting new springs and shocks, of course with camber kit...but I was also thinking maybe a good sounding exhaust. My long term plan is to get this motor N/A to around 200whp. From the research I have done I would say Headwork would be the best place to start but thats going to be a while because I know thats going to take a lot of money. But I guess it kinda comes down to Springs and Shocks, or some headers and exhaust...any opinions would be welcomed... Thanks for looking

BrutalB83 · 07-02-2008, 07:52 PM

New suspension FTW!

Luis998 · 07-02-2008, 08:03 PM

I'm with Brutal. Upgrade suspension and perhaps your brakes too. After all, it doesn't hurt to be able to stop properly when you're going really fast.

How much do you think you will be spending on your head work and what parts are you thinking of going with? My head work is set for a turbo set up and is costing me $740, that's not including parts, however; it will of course be very much worth it in the end. Best of luck on your build and by the way, you only have one header.

A header suggestion from me would be something like Hytech. They're expensive yes, but from what I understand are made for N/A applications. Best of luck on your build.

Justin66 · 07-02-2008, 09:35 PM

Your plans sound just like mine, minus the suspension which i already have. I want the same, about 200WHP. So far im only full exhaust, CA and some minor fuel adjustment. My next plans for the engine would be fuel rail and injectors, then light cams, good spark and tune.

Like the two other fine gentleman above me stated, susp and brakes are a good start and will keep you safe, and cross drilled rotor just look bad ass.

MJ93Hatchback · 07-02-2008, 10:27 PM

yes I know only one header, i have always added an S on it for some reason...but yeah Thats what i was leaning towards was the suspension, I was looking at the kyb agp shocks and springs I believe and that would give me like a 1.65'' drop or something like that, I'm not really looking to go too low but that would make it look a little better plus a lot safer...As far as putting money in for head work and what not. I dunno because that's prob. gonna be later down the road, I am pretty sure i want to keep it N/A though, from what I have been told is that any N/A car would beat a Turbo'd car IF they had similar spec's and stuff...Plus not that i am too heavy footed on a day to day basis but a have at the moment a d15b7 with a short ram intake and I drive that little thing fast enough so turbo might not be such a good idea lol ...and by the way what is FTW? i always see it but not sure what it means...thanks for all the advice and I appreciate the positive feedback...I will def. start a thread when this bad boy takes place...and I LOVED the hytech exhaust it looks so good, I think it's just the muffler but I dunno...so that might be a possibility in the future along with a Hytech header

Bkkfarang · 07-02-2008, 11:36 PM

suspension and brakes again , but screw the cross drilled rotors , go slotted better performance less chance of cracked rotor for a daily driver with ebc green stuff pads , good call on the agx shocks , koni springs great quailty and a 1.2 ,1.5 drop i believe , a quality cat back , aem intake , 4- 2 -1 header , and tunable hondata will get you on your way to 200 , but it will take cams , valve trane , mild head work , and tunning , mayched injectors are a good idea as well

Justin66 · 07-03-2008, 01:21 AM

FTW means "for the win" meaning its your personal opinion that something is awesome and or better. For example: i like second gen integras so ill say "SECOND GEN INTEGRAS FTW!"

MJ93Hatchback · 07-03-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bkkfarang

suspension and brakes again , but screw the cross drilled rotors , go slotted better performance less chance of cracked rotor for a daily driver with ebc green stuff pads , good call on the agx shocks , koni springs great quailty and a 1.2 ,1.5 drop i believe , a quality cat back , aem intake , 4- 2 -1 header , and tunable hondata will get you on your way to 200 , but it will take cams , valve trane , mild head work , and tunning , mayched injectors are a good idea as well

Yeah was thinking just an i/h/e might be good for a while, and as fast a the SiR-II is going to be in my hatch with just that, I definitely want to look into what it's going to take a how much money roughly it might be to achieve my power goals. I do know it's going to be a while because after i get four new tires, and a new suspension thats gonna be a good solid $800 at the least so even the i/h/e might be a while after that...and who knows that might be all I need anyways, as long as I can make it sound NON-RICEY i might be good with just i/h/e, but I def. want to keep it all motor...so we'll see how it goes. I just know right now it comes down to limited money and what to do which i am def. going with the suspension. besides springs and shocks it that all I will need for them to go on my car? I would guess a camber kit also, and then get an alignment..am I missing anything?

MJ93Hatchback · 07-03-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin66

FTW means "for the win" meaning its your personal opinion that something is awesome and or better. For example: i like second gen integras so ill say "SECOND GEN INTEGRAS FTW!"

thanks for clearing that up

BrutalB83 · 07-03-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ93Hatchback

I am pretty sure i want to keep it N/A though, from what I have been told is that any N/A car would beat a Turbo'd car IF they had similar spec's and stuff

What do you mean by similar specs? You could probably drop two grand into an N/A setup for your B16 and make 200 wheel horse, or you could drop 2 grand into a turbo setup and make 250-300 with good tuning. N/A is the expensive way to go fast...

MJ93Hatchback · 07-03-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrutalB83

What do you mean by similar specs? You could probably drop two grand into an N/A setup for your B16 and make 200 wheel horse, or you could drop 2 grand into a turbo setup and make 250-300 with good tuning. N/A is the expensive way to go fast...

What I mean is like if you have a turbo'd car thats pushing 200WHP and you have a N/A car that is pushing 200WHP, the N/A car would be faster or beat the turbo'd car correct?

MJ93Hatchback · 07-03-2008, 10:16 AM

and also I know N/A is the more expensive way to go fast, but I would think in the long run it would be more reliable too

BrutalB83 · 07-03-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ93Hatchback

What I mean is like if you have a turbo'd car thats pushing 200WHP and you have a N/A car that is pushing 200WHP, the N/A car would be faster or beat the turbo'd car correct?

Why would that be the case? If the power output's the same, then the performance should be roughly comparable as well. Of course there's factors like transmission gearing, what the power-band looks like, turbo lag, tires, etc., but overall it should be pretty similar.

And with an N/A build you'll need to get it tuned just like you would with a turbo setup if you want it to run well and reliably. There's really no reason a turbo'd Honda can't be reliable if you're using quality parts and have had it tuned on a dyno by someone who knows what they're doing.

And I'm not trying to persuade you one way or the other, just letting you know...

MJ93Hatchback · 07-03-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrutalB83

Why would that be the case? If the power output's the same, then the performance should be roughly comparable as well. Of course there's factors like transmission gearing, what the power-band looks like, turbo lag, tires, etc., but overall it should be pretty similar.

And with an N/A build you'll need to get it tuned just like you would with a turbo setup if you want it to run well and reliably. There's really no reason a turbo'd Honda can't be reliable if you're using quality parts and have had it tuned on a dyno by someone who knows what they're doing.

And I'm not trying to persuade you one way or the other, just letting you know...

Yeah I understand but my thinking is this...even though you can build a motor to hold up and last longer with a turbo,...like look at the name "Forced Induction" your forcing more air I guess it would be into a motor and making it push harder than it was typically made for, opposed to a n/a motor which is all motor and doesn't have anything pushing a motor to it's peak except for the driver. And like you said they should be roughly the same, but with the same trans. gearing same motor, tires, etc. except one is turbo one is not, the turbo will have to spool up, then when you shift gears it's gonna lose a little pressure...it just seems to me your making that motor do a lot more work to achieve that power goal and to get the most power out of the motor, than it would be if it was N/A because you already have the power, and especially if you have a good clutch too shifting can be faster and smoother without losing as much power if any at all...take a human for example, who is going to function better, one that breath's fine with no help(N/A), or a human on an oxygen tank(F.I.)... at least this is my thinking anyways

BrutalB83 · 07-03-2008, 10:46 AM

True, I guess, but some of the same things you pointed out about a boosted motor are also true of an N/A motor. The dropping out of boost issue for example...where does a B16 make it's power? Up high in the power band when VTEC is engaged. If you don't have the right transmission with a fairly short final drive then you're going to drop down into lower RPMs between shifts and fall out of the high horsepower range of the power-band.

Where does VTEC engage on a typical Honda engine? usually between 4500 - 5500 RPMs, right? Some turbos will start spooling before that. Some may even reach full boost before that. And you're right, yeah, you're forcing more air into the cylinders then what was originally meant to be there. That's where tuning comes in though. You'll adjust the timing and the amount of fuel being injected to compensate. There's no reason a boosted Honda can't be just as reliable as a built N/A one.

Oh, and just FYI, the gearing of the transmission and final drive, and also the flywheel you're using is what determines where you'll fall into the power-band after a shift, not so much the clutch.

Like I said, I'm not trying to dissuade you from going N/A at all. I'm just providing information for you and anyone else reading this thread on the advantages/disadvantages of both routes...

Justin66 · 07-03-2008, 10:47 AM

Either way you go, you have to be happy with it. I like the idea of N/A better than turboing but its my preference. A turbo would give you instant power and usually alot of it, for the same if not less money. But the feel of all engine makes me feel more powerful.

Its your choice.

MJ93Hatchback · 07-03-2008, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrutalB83

True, I guess, but some of the same things you pointed out about a boosted motor are also true of an N/A motor. The dropping out of boost issue for example...where does a B16 make it's power? Up high in the power band when VTEC is engaged. If you don't have the right transmission with a fairly short final drive then you're going to drop down into lower RPMs between shifts and fall out of the high horsepower range of the power-band.

Where does VTEC engage on a typical Honda engine? usually between 4500 - 5500 RPMs, right? Some turbos will start spooling before that. Some may even reach full boost before that. And you're right, yeah, you're forcing more air into the cylinders then what was originally meant to be there. That's where tuning comes in though. You'll adjust the timing and the amount of fuel being injected to compensate. There's no reason a boosted Honda can't be just as reliable as a built N/A one.

Oh, and just FYI, the gearing of the transmission and final drive, and also the flywheel you're using is what determines where you'll fall into the power-band after a shift, not so much the clutch.

Like I said, I'm not trying to dissuade you from going N/A at all. I'm just providing information for you and anyone else reading this thread on the advantages/disadvantages of both routes...

Yeah no doubt, and I am def. going with N/A...and I understand all that, and also I am not saying a turbo'd Honda can't be reliable because 1.) It''s a HONDA 2.) thats why you build the motor to hold up against the pressure. But I mean Long term reliability also...and maybe I am wrong, but in terms of longevity putting all the pressure into a motor, built or not built, I don't see how it can hold up as long as a N/A could years down the road, and I know there are many things depending on that, but I would say the chances of something messing up with a motor, later down the road would be greater in a forced induction car than a N/A motor and that's really the key thing for me too. I have over 3**,*** mile's on my d15 right now...and I hope for the B16 to last a good 2**,***. Now someone might tell me there is no way in heck that can happen, but I think the chances are greater of it happening with a N/A motor than a F.I. motor

MJ93Hatchback · 07-03-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin66

Either way you go, you have to be happy with it. I like the idea of N/A better than turboing but its my preference. A turbo would give you instant power and usually alot of it, for the same if not less money. But the feel of all engine makes me feel more powerful.

Its your choice.

well a turbo'd car can be fun to drive especially when boost kicks in and throws you back in your seat, plus the sound of a BOV, etc, etc... But for me what I love would be having an All motor Honda that can still kick some v8 butt without have a snail to do so (nothing against Snails). Anh who know's maybe later down the road when I am more established in life and I have the civic for a fun car, I might just rebuild the motor and Boost it for something more fun. but for now I will def. have to go N/A

Justin66 · 07-03-2008, 11:09 AM

Exactly.

But dont get me wrong id love to hear my car spool and blow-off, makes me tingly. But as it stands right now, i can only slowly build up my engine so N/A will have to do. Til i get a better job......... or career.

MJ93Hatchback · 07-03-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin66

Exactly.

But dont get me wrong id love to hear my car spool and blow-off, makes me tingly. But as it stands right now, i can only slowly build up my engine so N/A will have to do. Til i get a better job......... or career.

that's the same here because I was trying to do a Budget build before on a d16z6...but as I was thinking I was like well right now i don't really need a turbo'd car..plus i'd rather have a B-Series which will give me good power now, and then later down the road IF i go turbo it will be better to have a DOHC. Also when I do it I don't want to go cheap, now i didn't go cheap in my build now because I bought some good quality parts some used too, which I am trying to sale if anyone is reading, but I wan't to do it right, and to do it completely right without having to worry about every nickel and dime and if the part is really good enough or not and just have the money to use if I need something, opposed to doing a budget build where you might now have the extra money then having a long drawn out process... plus I am going to college and like you said, I want to get more established before I start dropping series money into it, which i believe you will need when doing a solid turbo set up,not that you can do a good one on a budget, I just think it would better for me to wait on it for now..

Justin66 · 07-03-2008, 11:23 AM

Yep i never go cheap, only new quality parts. I dont like skimping on certain things. Some things i can take used but rarely. I cant wait to try some cams, fuel and more spark, i think i would be very happy with.

I'm still stuck with crap 7mm wires for god sake.

Happy 200th post for me!

07-02-2008, 01:37 PM	#1
MJ93Hatchback Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 238 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 4	B16A SiR-II next step So my B16A SiR-II is on the way!!! Ordered from Hmotorsonline and after I get it in (the car that is) I was wondering what my next step should be... I am going to have to get new tires soon so thats going to be the first step (also since I mentioned it some recommendation for tires would be appreciated, i will be getting 205/40/17) but I was thinking of either getting new springs and shocks, of course with camber kit...but I was also thinking maybe a good sounding exhaust. My long term plan is to get this motor N/A to around 200whp. From the research I have done I would say Headwork would be the best place to start but thats going to be a while because I know thats going to take a lot of money. But I guess it kinda comes down to Springs and Shocks, or some headers and exhaust...any opinions would be welcomed... Thanks for looking

07-02-2008, 07:52 PM	#2
BrutalB83 Crusher of Noob Ambitions Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Oxford, MI Age: 25 Posts: 5,900 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 97 Integra LS Coupe Rep Power: 113	New suspension FTW! __________________ If you find something I say helpful, please rep it up! Also, DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums so we can all benefit from the answers. I will NOT respond to tech-related PMs... 97 Integra LS Coupe: AEM Intake/Megan Header/Magnaflow Exhaust Tokico Shocks & Springs Megan Strut Braces & H-Brace 98-01 Conversion (Front/Rear Bumpers & "Mesh" Alloys)

07-02-2008, 09:35 PM	#4
Justin66 The Hondaswap Canadian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Peterborough, Ontario Age: 21 Posts: 780 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Intergra GS/XSi Rep Power: 17	Your plans sound just like mine, minus the suspension which i already have. I want the same, about 200WHP. So far im only full exhaust, CA and some minor fuel adjustment. My next plans for the engine would be fuel rail and injectors, then light cams, good spark and tune. Like the two other fine gentleman above me stated, susp and brakes are a good start and will keep you safe, and cross drilled rotor just look bad ass. __________________ 90 Integra GS/ XSi - JDM B16A SiR2 w/ full exhaust & short ram - Skunk2 stage 1 cams (not installed yet) - J1 Tranny - H & R lowering springs - Rear strut bar and front camber kit - HKS Hi-Power exhaust - Powersteering removed - JDM 1-piece headlights & sidemarkers XBOX LIVE: JustinE66

07-03-2008, 01:21 AM	#7
Justin66 The Hondaswap Canadian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Peterborough, Ontario Age: 21 Posts: 780 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Intergra GS/XSi Rep Power: 17	FTW means "for the win" meaning its your personal opinion that something is awesome and or better. For example: i like second gen integras so ill say "SECOND GEN INTEGRAS FTW!" __________________ 90 Integra GS/ XSi - JDM B16A SiR2 w/ full exhaust & short ram - Skunk2 stage 1 cams (not installed yet) - J1 Tranny - H & R lowering springs - Rear strut bar and front camber kit - HKS Hi-Power exhaust - Powersteering removed - JDM 1-piece headlights & sidemarkers XBOX LIVE: JustinE66

07-03-2008, 10:46 AM	#15
BrutalB83 Crusher of Noob Ambitions Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Oxford, MI Age: 25 Posts: 5,900 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 97 Integra LS Coupe Rep Power: 113	True, I guess, but some of the same things you pointed out about a boosted motor are also true of an N/A motor. The dropping out of boost issue for example...where does a B16 make it's power? Up high in the power band when VTEC is engaged. If you don't have the right transmission with a fairly short final drive then you're going to drop down into lower RPMs between shifts and fall out of the high horsepower range of the power-band. Where does VTEC engage on a typical Honda engine? usually between 4500 - 5500 RPMs, right? Some turbos will start spooling before that. Some may even reach full boost before that. And you're right, yeah, you're forcing more air into the cylinders then what was originally meant to be there. That's where tuning comes in though. You'll adjust the timing and the amount of fuel being injected to compensate. There's no reason a boosted Honda can't be just as reliable as a built N/A one. Oh, and just FYI, the gearing of the transmission and final drive, and also the flywheel you're using is what determines where you'll fall into the power-band after a shift, not so much the clutch. Like I said, I'm not trying to dissuade you from going N/A at all. I'm just providing information for you and anyone else reading this thread on the advantages/disadvantages of both routes... __________________ If you find something I say helpful, please rep it up! Also, DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums so we can all benefit from the answers. I will NOT respond to tech-related PMs... 97 Integra LS Coupe: AEM Intake/Megan Header/Magnaflow Exhaust Tokico Shocks & Springs Megan Strut Braces & H-Brace 98-01 Conversion (Front/Rear Bumpers & "Mesh" Alloys)


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07-02-2008, 10:27 PM	#5
MJ93Hatchback Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 238 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 4	yes I know only one header, i have always added an S on it for some reason...but yeah Thats what i was leaning towards was the suspension, I was looking at the kyb agp shocks and springs I believe and that would give me like a 1.65'' drop or something like that, I'm not really looking to go too low but that would make it look a little better plus a lot safer...As far as putting money in for head work and what not. I dunno because that's prob. gonna be later down the road, I am pretty sure i want to keep it N/A though, from what I have been told is that any N/A car would beat a Turbo'd car IF they had similar spec's and stuff...Plus not that i am too heavy footed on a day to day basis but a have at the moment a d15b7 with a short ram intake and I drive that little thing fast enough so turbo might not be such a good idea lol ...and by the way what is FTW? i always see it but not sure what it means...thanks for all the advice and I appreciate the positive feedback...I will def. start a thread when this bad boy takes place...and I LOVED the hytech exhaust it looks so good, I think it's just the muffler but I dunno...so that might be a possibility in the future along with a Hytech header

07-02-2008, 11:36 PM	#6
Bkkfarang Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Bangkok and Shenzhen Age: 37 Posts: 289 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95eg extreme single cam / 06jazz hks turbo soon/ Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 7	suspension and brakes again , but screw the cross drilled rotors , go slotted better performance less chance of cracked rotor for a daily driver with ebc green stuff pads , good call on the agx shocks , koni springs great quailty and a 1.2 ,1.5 drop i believe , a quality cat back , aem intake , 4- 2 -1 header , and tunable hondata will get you on your way to 200 , but it will take cams , valve trane , mild head work , and tunning , mayched injectors are a good idea as well

07-03-2008, 10:16 AM	#12
MJ93Hatchback Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 238 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 4	and also I know N/A is the more expensive way to go fast, but I would think in the long run it would be more reliable too

07-03-2008, 10:47 AM	#16
Justin66 The Hondaswap Canadian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Peterborough, Ontario Age: 21 Posts: 780 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Intergra GS/XSi Rep Power: 17	Either way you go, you have to be happy with it. I like the idea of N/A better than turboing but its my preference. A turbo would give you instant power and usually alot of it, for the same if not less money. But the feel of all engine makes me feel more powerful. Its your choice. __________________ 90 Integra GS/ XSi - JDM B16A SiR2 w/ full exhaust & short ram - Skunk2 stage 1 cams (not installed yet) - J1 Tranny - H & R lowering springs - Rear strut bar and front camber kit - HKS Hi-Power exhaust - Powersteering removed - JDM 1-piece headlights & sidemarkers XBOX LIVE: JustinE66

07-03-2008, 11:09 AM	#19
Justin66 The Hondaswap Canadian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Peterborough, Ontario Age: 21 Posts: 780 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Intergra GS/XSi Rep Power: 17	Exactly. But dont get me wrong id love to hear my car spool and blow-off, makes me tingly. But as it stands right now, i can only slowly build up my engine so N/A will have to do. Til i get a better job......... or career. __________________ 90 Integra GS/ XSi - JDM B16A SiR2 w/ full exhaust & short ram - Skunk2 stage 1 cams (not installed yet) - J1 Tranny - H & R lowering springs - Rear strut bar and front camber kit - HKS Hi-Power exhaust - Powersteering removed - JDM 1-piece headlights & sidemarkers XBOX LIVE: JustinE66

07-03-2008, 11:23 AM	#21
Justin66 The Hondaswap Canadian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Peterborough, Ontario Age: 21 Posts: 780 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1990 Intergra GS/XSi Rep Power: 17	Yep i never go cheap, only new quality parts. I dont like skimping on certain things. Some things i can take used but rarely. I cant wait to try some cams, fuel and more spark, i think i would be very happy with. I'm still stuck with crap 7mm wires for god sake. Happy 200th post for me! __________________ 90 Integra GS/ XSi - JDM B16A SiR2 w/ full exhaust & short ram - Skunk2 stage 1 cams (not installed yet) - J1 Tranny - H & R lowering springs - Rear strut bar and front camber kit - HKS Hi-Power exhaust - Powersteering removed - JDM 1-piece headlights & sidemarkers XBOX LIVE: JustinE66

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