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afrookie · 03-12-2006, 09:52 AM

hey guys
i bought an 87 integra last week and did a head swap. "finished" it up yesterday, when i went to crank it it fires over just fine. the problem is that there the fuel pump isn't working. i loosened the bolt on top of the fuel pressure regulator while my wife turned the key on and off over 30 times - nothing. i even removed the bolt and put my finger over the bolt hole when she did that - nothing.
then i put my head near the fuel pump - nothing.

i've got to believe that the head swap and the fuel pump not working is somehow connected, as it worked before.

thanks

jlicrx · 03-12-2006, 02:16 PM

check your ground that bolts to the thermostat housing - check all your connectors

afrookie · 03-12-2006, 02:36 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jlicrx @ Mar 12 2006, 01:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
check your ground that bolts to the thermostat housing - check all your connectors
[/b][/quote]

what would that do?

VTECin5th · 03-12-2006, 02:51 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 12 2006, 02:36 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jlicrx @ Mar 12 2006, 01:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
check your ground that bolts to the thermostat housing - check all your connectors
[/b][/quote]

what would that do?
[/b][/quote]
It will stop the fuel pump from working... did the same thing in my mom's prelude...forgot to hook it up when i put the new thermostat+housing in it, and it wouldn't start.

afrookie · 03-12-2006, 09:52 PM

AH HA! look at that. i missed that ground. the fuel pump works now. however (I haven't yet set the timing), when i turn the car on the RPM's go WAY up, even if my foot's not on the pedal. thanks VTECin5th, man i owe you. i spent 3 hours trying to figure that out last night, and 5 minutes fixing it today.

and there's a loud knock in the engine that was there before i did the head gasket. piston slap maybe?

any idea why the RPM's go up? what can i do about the knock?

lil_red_si · 03-12-2006, 09:57 PM

prolly rod knock if you ask me.....bad.......if you dont take care of that rod knock...you might shoot a rod thru that pan.....then bye bye motor....shootin a rod can crack the block and make a big hole in the pan.....just my 2 cents
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif[/img]

afrookie · 03-12-2006, 09:59 PM

is that an easy fix? aside from pulling the motor and rebuilding it or putting a different engine in?

how do i tell for sure if it's a rod knock?

VTECin5th · 03-12-2006, 10:12 PM

To me it sounds like you lined up the timing belt wrong, and you're hearing your valves smash into the pistons, and are most likely bent.
(the rpms might be up partly due to incorrect timing or maybe your throttle cable is pulling it open?)
Thanks for the appreciation, but it was jlicrx who suggested checking that first.
Do you have any check engine lights on?

afrookie · 03-12-2006, 10:19 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VTECin5th @ Mar 12 2006, 09:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
To me it sounds like you lined up the timing belt wrong, and you're hearing your valves smash into the pistons, and are most likely bent.
(the rpms might be up partly due to incorrect timing or maybe your throttle cable is pulling it open?)
Thanks for the appreciation, but it was jlicrx who suggested checking that first.
Do you have any check engine lights on?
[/b][/quote]

thanks for the help guys. i appreciate it
man i hope i didn't bash the valves
it actually starts, but yea the rpm's go way up - symptoms of bent valves?
i made sure i line the cams up with the holes on the drivers side, how could the timing be jacked up?

how do i check to see if my valves are hosed? man, that makes sense, but i sure hope it's not it

i made sure my throttle cable was even loose, so unless the TB is stuck open, i don't see why the RPM's would go up

not sure about a check engine light, my wife was turning the key and i was under the hood, but didn't pay attention to the gauges

i took the head into a head specialist. he did a pressure test and said it was pretty good (some small leaking but otherwise fine). this noise sounds like the same noise i heard before i pulled the head and replaced the gasket

VTECin5th · 03-13-2006, 04:09 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 12 2006, 10:19 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VTECin5th @ Mar 12 2006, 09:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
To me it sounds like you lined up the timing belt wrong, and you're hearing your valves smash into the pistons, and are most likely bent.
(the rpms might be up partly due to incorrect timing or maybe your throttle cable is pulling it open?)
Thanks for the appreciation, but it was jlicrx who suggested checking that first.
Do you have any check engine lights on?
[/b][/quote]

thanks for the help guys. i appreciate it
man i hope i didn't bash the valves
it actually starts, but yea the rpm's go way up - symptoms of bent valves?
i made sure i line the cams up with the holes on the drivers side, how could the timing be jacked up?

how do i check to see if my valves are hosed? man, that makes sense, but i sure hope it's not it

i made sure my throttle cable was even loose, so unless the TB is stuck open, i don't see why the RPM's would go up

not sure about a check engine light, my wife was turning the key and i was under the hood, but didn't pay attention to the gauges

i took the head into a head specialist. he did a pressure test and said it was pretty good (some small leaking but otherwise fine). this noise sounds like the same noise i heard before i pulled the head and replaced the gasket
[/b][/quote]
I didn't know the problem existed before you did the head swap...
In that case, if you did take it to be checked, i'm sure they would've told you if you had bent valves...or if you disassembled the head yourself you would've noticed, i hope.
It does sound like rod knock.. can i ask why you went thru the trouble of headswap when a d16a1 can be found for cheap/free? Just wondering?
Drain your oil and look for metal shavings in it...if you find some, buy a new motor.
RPMs going way up is usually NEVER a symptom of bent valves, but more likely a vacuum hose not hooked up/broken or a broken sensor.
My guess is Vacuum though (like you maybe broke one of the hoses, or forgot to hook it back up, or hooked it up to the wrong place etc)

afrookie · 03-14-2006, 06:06 PM

yea, it's rod knock. i had a mechanic listen to it today.

i found another d16 for about $340 shipped to me. i can't find one at a salvage yard any cheaper. anyone have one for sale on here?

i did just the head swap because i couldn't find another engine out here cheap until just today (i started looking harder when i found out the motor was shot). basically i didn't want to go all the way with a new engine

VTECin5th · 03-14-2006, 11:09 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 14 2006, 06:06 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
yea, it's rod knock. i had a mechanic listen to it today.

i found another d16 for about $340 shipped to me. i can't find one at a salvage yard any cheaper. anyone have one for sale on here?

i did just the head swap because i couldn't find another engine out here cheap until just today (i started looking harder when i found out the motor was shot). basically i didn't want to go all the way with a new engine
[/b][/quote]
Understandable, and most likely you are doing the right thing.
$340 shipped seems high to me, but it's not too bad if you can't get it locally.
Where are you that you can't find an 87 integra in the junkyard?

afrookie · 03-14-2006, 11:11 PM

little rock, arkansas
how much should i pay for a motor in good shape?
the one for $340 has 78k on it

if i call a junkyard and ask for a motor from an 87 integra are they going to know if the same motor came out of any hondas? was a d16a1 ever put in anything else?

what's the difference between a ZC and a D16a1?

VTECin5th · 03-15-2006, 03:09 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 14 2006, 11:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
little rock, arkansas
how much should i pay for a motor in good shape?
the one for $340 has 78k on it

if i call a junkyard and ask for a motor from an 87 integra are they going to know if the same motor came out of any hondas? was a d16a1 ever put in anything else?

what's the difference between a ZC and a D16a1?
[/b][/quote]
A d16a1 bolts directly into your integra, and i think the brown top ZC does as well...don't quote me.
78k seems unreal for an 87-88 but it happens.
$340 is a decent price if they're reputable,(78k true) and shipped to your door, but i would check around...maybe save some more locally.
As far as i know the d16a1 came in only one car.(the teg)..again don't quote me.

afrookie · 03-18-2006, 05:42 AM

sow hen i replace the motor i want to also replace the following
cam shaft seals
crank seal
rear main seal
water pump
timing belt

anything else?

jlicrx · 03-18-2006, 11:30 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 18 2006, 03:42 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
sow hen i replace the motor i want to also replace the following
cam shaft seals
crank seal
rear main seal
water pump
timing belt

anything else?
[/b][/quote]
timing belt tensioner, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket and spark plug seals, thermostat - D16A1 only came in 86-89 Integra, but 86-87 are different from 88-89

afrookie · 03-18-2006, 11:58 AM

timing belt tensioner is manual isn't it? i thought those type didn't need replacing
is it worth doing the oil pan gasket if it's not leaking?

afrookie · 03-20-2006, 08:35 PM

I've got the capability to lift the car and take the motor out of the bottom. Would that make it much easier?

it's an 87 integra with the stock motor

VTECin5th · 03-20-2006, 08:58 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 20 2006, 08:35 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I've got the capability to lift the car and take the motor out of the bottom. Would that make it much easier?

it's an 87 integra with the stock motor
[/b][/quote]
I don't know about much easier?
We tried to drop one from the bottom i didn't like it, i prefer to pull em out from above so you can see what is getting snagged.

lil_red_si · 03-20-2006, 09:38 PM

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] so i was right it was a rod knock!!!!!!!!!...kudos for me

afrookie · 03-20-2006, 09:54 PM

yup, you were right
fricken rod knock...

anyone near little rock, ar and want to help with a motor swap this week?

03-12-2006, 02:16 PM	#2
jlicrx Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 1,570 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 64	check your ground that bolts to the thermostat housing - check all your connectors __________________ ZCspeed Racing

03-12-2006, 02:51 PM	#4
VTECin5th Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix Az Age: 24 Posts: 2,188 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 41	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 12 2006, 02:36 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jlicrx @ Mar 12 2006, 01:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> check your ground that bolts to the thermostat housing - check all your connectors [/b][/quote] what would that do? [/b][/quote] It will stop the fuel pump from working... did the same thing in my mom's prelude...forgot to hook it up when i put the new thermostat+housing in it, and it wouldn't start. __________________ k20dc5

03-12-2006, 09:57 PM	#6
lil_red_si Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: west haven,ct Posts: 355 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 11	prolly rod knock if you ask me.....bad.......if you dont take care of that rod knock...you might shoot a rod thru that pan.....then bye bye motor....shootin a rod can crack the block and make a big hole in the pan.....just my 2 cents [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif[/img] __________________ <span style=\"font-size:10pt;line-height:100%\"><span style=\"color:#FF0000\">new project!: 1989 crx si.....d16a6 block..all new gaskets, seals and bearings replaced and now BOOSTED!!!>.....SAAB T3 TURBO....HF MANIFOLD...SAAB 2" INTERCOOLER PIPING....DSM BLOW OFF VALVE....SAAB FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER.....BOOST BABY BOOST</span></span>

03-12-2006, 10:12 PM	#8
VTECin5th Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix Az Age: 24 Posts: 2,188 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 41	To me it sounds like you lined up the timing belt wrong, and you're hearing your valves smash into the pistons, and are most likely bent. (the rpms might be up partly due to incorrect timing or maybe your throttle cable is pulling it open?) Thanks for the appreciation, but it was jlicrx who suggested checking that first. Do you have any check engine lights on? __________________ k20dc5

03-13-2006, 04:09 AM	#10
VTECin5th Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix Az Age: 24 Posts: 2,188 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 41	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 12 2006, 10:19 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VTECin5th @ Mar 12 2006, 09:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> To me it sounds like you lined up the timing belt wrong, and you're hearing your valves smash into the pistons, and are most likely bent. (the rpms might be up partly due to incorrect timing or maybe your throttle cable is pulling it open?) Thanks for the appreciation, but it was jlicrx who suggested checking that first. Do you have any check engine lights on? [/b][/quote] thanks for the help guys. i appreciate it man i hope i didn't bash the valves it actually starts, but yea the rpm's go way up - symptoms of bent valves? i made sure i line the cams up with the holes on the drivers side, how could the timing be jacked up? how do i check to see if my valves are hosed? man, that makes sense, but i sure hope it's not it i made sure my throttle cable was even loose, so unless the TB is stuck open, i don't see why the RPM's would go up not sure about a check engine light, my wife was turning the key and i was under the hood, but didn't pay attention to the gauges i took the head into a head specialist. he did a pressure test and said it was pretty good (some small leaking but otherwise fine). this noise sounds like the same noise i heard before i pulled the head and replaced the gasket [/b][/quote] I didn't know the problem existed before you did the head swap... In that case, if you did take it to be checked, i'm sure they would've told you if you had bent valves...or if you disassembled the head yourself you would've noticed, i hope. It does sound like rod knock.. can i ask why you went thru the trouble of headswap when a d16a1 can be found for cheap/free? Just wondering? Drain your oil and look for metal shavings in it...if you find some, buy a new motor. RPMs going way up is usually NEVER a symptom of bent valves, but more likely a vacuum hose not hooked up/broken or a broken sensor. My guess is Vacuum though (like you maybe broke one of the hoses, or forgot to hook it back up, or hooked it up to the wrong place etc) __________________ k20dc5


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03-12-2006, 09:52 AM	#1
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	hey guys i bought an 87 integra last week and did a head swap. "finished" it up yesterday, when i went to crank it it fires over just fine. the problem is that there the fuel pump isn't working. i loosened the bolt on top of the fuel pressure regulator while my wife turned the key on and off over 30 times - nothing. i even removed the bolt and put my finger over the bolt hole when she did that - nothing. then i put my head near the fuel pump - nothing. i've got to believe that the head swap and the fuel pump not working is somehow connected, as it worked before. thanks

03-12-2006, 02:36 PM	#3
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jlicrx @ Mar 12 2006, 01:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> check your ground that bolts to the thermostat housing - check all your connectors [/b][/quote] what would that do?

03-12-2006, 09:52 PM	#5
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	AH HA! look at that. i missed that ground. the fuel pump works now. however (I haven't yet set the timing), when i turn the car on the RPM's go WAY up, even if my foot's not on the pedal. thanks VTECin5th, man i owe you. i spent 3 hours trying to figure that out last night, and 5 minutes fixing it today. and there's a loud knock in the engine that was there before i did the head gasket. piston slap maybe? any idea why the RPM's go up? what can i do about the knock?

03-12-2006, 09:59 PM	#7
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	is that an easy fix? aside from pulling the motor and rebuilding it or putting a different engine in? how do i tell for sure if it's a rod knock?

03-12-2006, 10:19 PM	#9
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VTECin5th @ Mar 12 2006, 09:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> To me it sounds like you lined up the timing belt wrong, and you're hearing your valves smash into the pistons, and are most likely bent. (the rpms might be up partly due to incorrect timing or maybe your throttle cable is pulling it open?) Thanks for the appreciation, but it was jlicrx who suggested checking that first. Do you have any check engine lights on? [/b][/quote] thanks for the help guys. i appreciate it man i hope i didn't bash the valves it actually starts, but yea the rpm's go way up - symptoms of bent valves? i made sure i line the cams up with the holes on the drivers side, how could the timing be jacked up? how do i check to see if my valves are hosed? man, that makes sense, but i sure hope it's not it i made sure my throttle cable was even loose, so unless the TB is stuck open, i don't see why the RPM's would go up not sure about a check engine light, my wife was turning the key and i was under the hood, but didn't pay attention to the gauges i took the head into a head specialist. he did a pressure test and said it was pretty good (some small leaking but otherwise fine). this noise sounds like the same noise i heard before i pulled the head and replaced the gasket

03-14-2006, 06:06 PM	#11
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	yea, it's rod knock. i had a mechanic listen to it today. i found another d16 for about $340 shipped to me. i can't find one at a salvage yard any cheaper. anyone have one for sale on here? i did just the head swap because i couldn't find another engine out here cheap until just today (i started looking harder when i found out the motor was shot). basically i didn't want to go all the way with a new engine

03-14-2006, 11:09 PM	#12
VTECin5th Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix Az Age: 24 Posts: 2,188 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 41	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 14 2006, 06:06 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> yea, it's rod knock. i had a mechanic listen to it today. i found another d16 for about $340 shipped to me. i can't find one at a salvage yard any cheaper. anyone have one for sale on here? i did just the head swap because i couldn't find another engine out here cheap until just today (i started looking harder when i found out the motor was shot). basically i didn't want to go all the way with a new engine [/b][/quote] Understandable, and most likely you are doing the right thing. $340 shipped seems high to me, but it's not too bad if you can't get it locally. Where are you that you can't find an 87 integra in the junkyard? __________________ k20dc5

03-14-2006, 11:11 PM	#13
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	little rock, arkansas how much should i pay for a motor in good shape? the one for $340 has 78k on it if i call a junkyard and ask for a motor from an 87 integra are they going to know if the same motor came out of any hondas? was a d16a1 ever put in anything else? what's the difference between a ZC and a D16a1?

03-15-2006, 03:09 AM	#14
VTECin5th Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix Az Age: 24 Posts: 2,188 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 41	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 14 2006, 11:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> little rock, arkansas how much should i pay for a motor in good shape? the one for $340 has 78k on it if i call a junkyard and ask for a motor from an 87 integra are they going to know if the same motor came out of any hondas? was a d16a1 ever put in anything else? what's the difference between a ZC and a D16a1? [/b][/quote] A d16a1 bolts directly into your integra, and i think the brown top ZC does as well...don't quote me. 78k seems unreal for an 87-88 but it happens. $340 is a decent price if they're reputable,(78k true) and shipped to your door, but i would check around...maybe save some more locally. As far as i know the d16a1 came in only one car.(the teg)..again don't quote me. __________________ k20dc5

03-18-2006, 05:42 AM	#15
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	sow hen i replace the motor i want to also replace the following cam shaft seals crank seal rear main seal water pump timing belt anything else?

03-18-2006, 11:30 AM	#16
jlicrx Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 1,570 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 64	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 18 2006, 03:42 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> sow hen i replace the motor i want to also replace the following cam shaft seals crank seal rear main seal water pump timing belt anything else? [/b][/quote] timing belt tensioner, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket and spark plug seals, thermostat - D16A1 only came in 86-89 Integra, but 86-87 are different from 88-89 __________________ ZCspeed Racing

03-18-2006, 11:58 AM	#17
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	timing belt tensioner is manual isn't it? i thought those type didn't need replacing is it worth doing the oil pan gasket if it's not leaking?

03-20-2006, 08:35 PM	#18
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	I've got the capability to lift the car and take the motor out of the bottom. Would that make it much easier? it's an 87 integra with the stock motor

03-20-2006, 08:58 PM	#19
VTECin5th Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix Az Age: 24 Posts: 2,188 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 41	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afrookie @ Mar 20 2006, 08:35 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> I've got the capability to lift the car and take the motor out of the bottom. Would that make it much easier? it's an 87 integra with the stock motor [/b][/quote] I don't know about much easier? We tried to drop one from the bottom i didn't like it, i prefer to pull em out from above so you can see what is getting snagged. __________________ k20dc5

03-20-2006, 09:38 PM	#20
lil_red_si Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: west haven,ct Posts: 355 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 11	[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] so i was right it was a rod knock!!!!!!!!!...kudos for me __________________ <span style=\"font-size:10pt;line-height:100%\"><span style=\"color:#FF0000\">new project!: 1989 crx si.....d16a6 block..all new gaskets, seals and bearings replaced and now BOOSTED!!!>.....SAAB T3 TURBO....HF MANIFOLD...SAAB 2" INTERCOOLER PIPING....DSM BLOW OFF VALVE....SAAB FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER.....BOOST BABY BOOST</span></span>

03-20-2006, 09:54 PM	#21
afrookie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 8	yup, you were right fricken rod knock... anyone near little rock, ar and want to help with a motor swap this week?

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help - fuel pump not working after head swap - 87 integra