Russia has a new stealth fighter plane

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Its the answer to our F-22, which is far and above the undisputed king of the sky. No one else has anything that can come near it in a dogfight. And it makes a hell of a ground pounder, too.
 
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phyregod said:
Its the answer to our F-22, which is far and above the undisputed king of the sky. No one else has anything that can come anywhere near it in a dog fight. And it makes a hell of a ground pounder, too.
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:werd:
 
phyregod said:
No one else has anything that can come near it in a dogfight.
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Sukhoi's 4.5 gen designs with 3d thrust vectoring & canard wings are more maneuverable than the f22.

It looks like this new fighter will not have the same maneuverability as the 4.5 gen SU37 (or even the SU30MKI), however it does appear to have a much stealthier design.
 
Manuverability is almost moot point. We will never dog fight again. And the chanses of out manuvering a modern ATA and some GTA missile is pretty low.

Hell nation on nation wars are just about done too. What role does a stealth plane play in an insurgency? I'd be more excited to see an improved A-10 to go along with it.
 
This is like cops finally getting semi-auto guns. always behind.

the article says it will be 5 years before they are in service. in 5 years, the u.s. and every other country will know the details of that plane inside and out. we will know all the strengths, weaknesses, and how to counter it.

good job wasting money russia, now maybe you can have a dogfight with al qaeda in afghanistan. are you taking economic lessons from the u.s.?
 
Drake said:
Manuverability is almost moot point. We will never dog fight again. And the chanses of out manuvering a modern ATA and some GTA missile is pretty low.
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You sound like the US navy and air force during the Vietnam War.

A little reading:

Vietnam Dogfighting Experience

Typhoon vs. SU-30MKI: The 2007 Indra Dhanush Exercise

article said:
while there is a number of counter and counter-counter measures to make the modern missiles with claims of inescapable parameters redundant by using ‘chaff’ and other active/passive measures, a ‘gun kill’ is invariably a most certain kill. The pilots invariably begin honing their tracking and combat skills under such close combat situations.”
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Read stories of the IDF's encounters in the middle east. Often times, aim 9 (infra red) or aim 7 (radar) fail to lock or properly track their targets. This will always be a problem with air to air missiles, not to mention the continuous advancement of active (chaff) / passive (reduced heat sig) countermeasures & enhanced maneuverability of airplanes.

Even Ultra advanced air to air missiles like the AIM-9X and Vympel R-73 with incredible off boresight & thrust vectoring have not lead either the US or Russia to drop the 2ndary Gun found on fighters like the JSF and F22.

Hell nation on nation wars are just about done too. What role does a stealth plane play in an insurgency? I'd be more excited to see an improved A-10 to go along with it.
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True. I think air-power is headed in the same PMC (private military contractor) direction as foot-soldiers have gone. Soon you will have contract airpower for hire.
 
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Cashizslick said:
Sukhoi's 4.5 gen designs with 3d thrust vectoring & canard wings are more maneuverable than the f22.

It looks like this new fighter will not have the same maneuverability as the 4.5 gen SU37 (or even the SU30MKI), however it does appear to have a much stealthier design.
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As Drake stated, maneuverability is damn near moot with the F22. It supposedly has a radar signature of a small bird, and the radar it puts out will track a target before its even in viewing range of the pilot.
 
2000Si said:
As Drake stated, maneuverability is damn near moot with the F22. It supposedly has a radar signature of a small bird, and the radar it puts out will track a target before its even in viewing range of the pilot.
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Read what I wrote above your post.

Also - Now that the Russians have their own version of the F22 (the t-50), neither pilot will be able to see the other.

If you cannot see an f22 on your radar screen (and are unable to get a radar/infared lock due to design countermeasures), you must shoot it down with a gun.

You guys should stick to hondas.
 
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Drake said:
Manuverability is almost moot point. We will never dog fight again. And the chanses of out manuvering a modern ATA and some GTA missile is pretty low.

Hell nation on nation wars are just about done too. What role does a stealth plane play in an insurgency? I'd be more excited to see an improved A-10 to go along with it.
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just because we are currently dealing with insurgent/terrorist type warfare does not mean that nation on nation warfare is out of the realm of possibility and should not be prepared for...

even if that is the type of mindset our government takes (OMG! someone tried to blow up a plane with their shoes... now everyone needs to take off their shoes... you can replace "shoes" with anything from "bottle of liquid" to "underwear")

i guess all im saying is that it is good to prepare for more than just your current situation

but i do fully agree that we need to work on an improved / updated A-10 (god i love that thing :wub: )
**note to anyone who might have something to do with that project**
dont go fucking it up and turning it into a damn joint strike plane or some other gay shit (the F-35 is NOT an acceptable replacement)
the A-10s replacement should be done the same way the A-10 was: take a really big ridiculous death slinging gun, and build a damn near indestructible flying tank of a plane around it
it doesnt need to be fast, its a ground support plane, its perfectly fine for it to be slow, in fact it SHOULD be slow... it just needs to handle amazingly
it should have good visibility from the cockpit, because when you are providing close ground support, you are not flying by instruments, you are looking out the windows
it should also look and sound evil as fuck (much like the A-10)
dont send a bunch of dicks in suits, and bean counters into a room to develop this... talk to people who fly the A-10 in combat... see what they would like to see improved on and do that... suits and bean counters have no damn clue what is needed in the the field




sorry for the rant :)
 
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Cashizslick said:
Read what I wrote above your post.

Also - Now that the Russians have their own version of the F22 (the t-50), neither pilot will be able to see the other.

If you cannot see an f22 on your radar screen (and are unable to get a radar/infared lock due to design countermeasures), you must shoot it down with a gun.

You guys should stick to hondas.
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Um ok... all I said was the F22 will track targets before even remotely being anywhere near danger. I seriously doubt it'll come down to gun fighting ever, because Russia won't be attacking the US anyway. Close combat dog fighting with guns died after WWII.
 
2000Si said:
Um ok... all I said was the F22 will track targets before even remotely being anywhere near danger. I seriously doubt it'll come down to gun fighting ever, because Russia won't be attacking the US anyway. Close combat dog fighting with guns died after WWII.
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Have you ever heard of "Mig Alley" in the Korean War?

How about air combat over Vietnam?

How about "Red Flag" .

Red Flag (USAF) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

article said:
Among the several factors resulting in this disparity was a lack of realistic ACM training. USAF pilots were not versed in the core values and basics of ACM due to the belief that BVR (Beyond Visual Range) engagements and equipment made maneuvering combats obsolete, and nearly all pilots were unpracticed in maneuvering against dissimilar aircraft because of an Air Force emphasis on flying safety.
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Your have no idea what you are talking about. Read the links I posted above in my 1st response to drake and the red flag article that ends 2 lines above this paragraph, denoted by quotes.
 
Ok, during Korea they still had a LARGE majority of aircraft as piston engined fighters. Vietnam was right around the time jet engines were coming into shape and being used more. You're talking about radar and jet fighters pretty much in their infancy being used during two different wars. Radar and Sonar are WWII inventions.

This is 2010 where the majority of countries with an air force use jet engine aircraft. So far there is a whopping one country with stealth technology in their fighters. The other one is still in development, oh and they're our ally anyway.
 
I'm not saying you're wrong, my point is what you're saying is plausible, but moot until there will actually be other aircraft with small radar signatures in the air trying to go up against the US. So until then, the F22 will have the advantage in tracking ability from long ranges.
 
2000Si said:
oh and they're our ally anyway.
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i would use that term very lightly

im not saying they are not currently "friendly" with us... all im saying is if we were skydiving together, i wouldnt let them pack my 'chute
 
I am all for "Big War" machines that wasnt what I was trying to say. I think the F22 on several levels is a great idea but we need to factor in our current needs as well. Which is where the A-10 update comes into play. I just dont see dog fighting being economical for either side soon. I mean if it doesnt show up on radar who can afford to spend hundreds of hours using human eyes to find one?

And if the Russians really are catching up to us as far as stealth and such shouldnt we be working on a much more advanced radar system? I am sure we do have one of the best in the world but quantifing the value of an assest based on a low probability situation is not a wise move.

Hell maybe Russia will end up spending itself to death on gold plated projects like we are. Then dog fighting will be out dated.
 
Hell maybe Russia will end up spending itself to death on gold plated projects like we are. Then dog fighting will be out dated.
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they already did that once during the cold war
i think it'll be the US that folds next, leaving china as the stand alone super power

scary what some of you guys know about war planes and missles
where do you read up on such technology... and why
 
They have always fascinated me. I've heavily researched air combat aircraft & techniques from all theaters, wwii thru present.

Both sides of the isle have impressive tech (ie US/USSR). Emerging nations like china purchase their own aircraft or make copies from foreign designs.

Imho we are approaching the point where being in an airplane, during wartime, anywhere on the globe is a dumb idea.
 
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