plastic back into oil???

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How much energy does it take to process the plastic back to oil vs. the energy you get out of the oil? That's my biggest question with any type of renewable resource
 
CRX-YEM said:
How much energy does it take to process the plastic back to oil vs. the energy you get out of the oil? That's my biggest question with any type of renewable resource
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Exactly. Something people hardly ever talk about really. Look at the EVs everyone is pimping these days. Yes they are great but where does most electricity come from? Coal fire plants. Trading one form of pollution for another really. Here in Washington every 10 years or so someone wants to rip our hydroelectric dams out because of the fish, then they bitch about clean renewable energy at the same time.
 
With the limited range of the EV's, they really aren't even that efficient when you factor in the charging costs. You can't plug them into a typical 110v 15a plug.

The plastic to oil thing, while pretty cool, is something I can't ever see on a larger scale unless it could be profitable. I could foresee municipalities stockpiling plastic refuse picked up curbside and trying to sell it to whomever tried to use this process, and the profitability of it would be very limited. It would be interesting to see the volume of plastic needed to create, say, a "barrel" of usable oil, much less refine it further to gasoline or diesel.
 
But profit is bad!

Anyway, this is a pretty great proof of concept. Who knows, they may come up with a way to make it more efficient and cheaper to operate. It wasn't all that long ago when shale oil was considered black magic voodoo that would kill babies. But then again innovations like that took place in a climate where innovation and profit making was viewed as a great thing.
 
Maybe the government could run it. We need a czar for this.
 
CRX-YEM said:
How much energy does it take to process the plastic back to oil vs. the energy you get out of the oil? That's my biggest question with any type of renewable resource
Click to expand...


this is a great idea. leave it to the asians to figure it out lol.

but, i would imagine that when compared to the cost of pumping the oil out of the ground, shipping the raw oil, processing and refining, then shipping again, then storing, then shipping, then refining again into the different fuels, then storing, then pumping it up the pipelines, into a truck, then shipping again, finally to be delivered and pumped into your car. this would be a comparable cost.

the biggest key factor is keeping greed out of it, like stated above, somebody will start sitting on all the garbage that they were just trying to pawn off on somebody else bc they now know that it has some potential.

this is something, that if kept on a local scale, no giant corporation involvement, independent states/cities could have great potential to clean up their communities, oceans, rivers, and lakes as well as start to reverse the overbearing landfills.

but, like everything else, corporate greed will destroy this great idea.
 
so tiny corporations should handle it or the government should? I guess I don't understand the corporate greed aspect.
 
Nothing that benefits a co2 emitting device will get any press in the united states . . . sadly.


What an awesome machine. Rig it up with some solar panels, or to a nuclear power plant, and it can be run with virtually no energy input cost.
 
here is another company that looks like they are making a larger scale version of this
Envion | Waste to Resource

envion.jpg


envion_BL7OS_11446.jpg




here is an amazingly boring 11 minute video that shows detailed clips of the machine and process, while giving you absolutely no information or narrative on anything

Envion Demo on Vimeo


still no info on how much energy it takes to get the plastic back into oil form
 
If someone where allowed to do this in a true free market without the EPA so far up their ass they could get this done and be competitive.
 
B said:
who cares if it takes more energy? the plastic still needs to go instead of sit there or in the ocean for 123412331212 years.

pacific ocean plastic - Google Search

its disgusting....
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the problem is... if it is not efficient then it is not going to gain any traction and will be lost to history as little more than an idea that sounded like it might have been cool if only it worked better

in order for this to go anywhere it needs to be efficient... it needs to be easy... it needs to be convenient... and it needs to be profitable

because if it is not efficient then there is no point in doing this instead of just recycling the plastic back into plastic

the second company i posted up claims to be able to work with any plastics... no sorting cleaning or drying needed... so it definitely seems that it falls into the easy category

recycling is pretty fucking easy in this country and still only between 6 and 27% of plastics are recycled (varying numbers depending on sources)... some places do not have good recycling programs set up... some people simply cant be bothered to find a recycling bin to throw their shit in... some people dont know how or what to recycle... some people just dont give a fuck

and finally it needs to be profitable... they need to be able to make more money on the 3-5 barrels of oil they can get from 1 ton of plastic than it costs for them to produce it... otherwise this is on a deadend road right from the get go... unless it gets government subsidized... and we all know how well that works :rolleyes:

A single Envion unit is capable of processing up to 10,000 tons of plastic waste annually, producing three to five barrels of refined petroleum product per ton of plastic waste.
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so 30,000-50,000 barrels of oil annually per unit
oil has been averaging about $75 per barrel for the past year
that means at current prices each unit has the capability of producing $2,250,000 - $3,750,000 worth of oil annually... but then you have to factor in the cost of the equipment... the cost of running it... maintaining it... hiring people to run it... getting the plastic... and all of the other etc... and now the $2.25-3.75 million isnt looking like nearly as much money...

you might be able to charge more for this oil because it is cleaner than the oil coming out of the ground now... so it will require less work to put it to market... but you still need to make enough to outweigh your cost of operation... and nobody has mentioned those numbers yet

The Envion Oil Generator™ yields low-sulfur oil which is 99% sediment free – dramatically reducing refining costs. Similar to crude oil extracted from the earth, Envion's oil output can be converted into commercial fuels (gasoline, kerosene, jet fuel, and diesel) through additive treatment.
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just because something is a good idea on paper doesnt mean that its practical or going anywhere...
 
Gov't subsidy like corn is certainly needed. It is still cheaper to buy corn than to grow it yourself in any size acreage.
 
E_SolSi said:
in order for this to go anywhere it needs to be efficient... it needs to be easy... it needs to be convenient... and it needs to be profitable

because if it is not efficient then there is no point in doing this instead of just recycling the plastic back into plastic
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Nuclear power. Its efficient, safe, near limitless power.

Just ask the french, or the americans, or the iranians. Dont ask the russians.
 
the problem with nuc power is where do you put the spent fuel rods?
 
i posted this idea up a while back in another thread

collect them up
when you get a reasonable amount of them you launch them into space
aim them on a collision course with the sun
they get burned up in the great fusion reactor in the sky

nice and easy
no bullshit
no worries about contaminating an underground cavern for millions of years
probably cheaper in the long run
 
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