National OPT OUT day

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Cashizslick

!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!
Just - Say - No. Its that simple.

National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners | Threat Level | Wired.com

70 years ago people didnt say anything, and look where it got em:

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What will you say?


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if i were flying, i would refuse.

even on any other day.
i think this shit is retarded and ridiculous.

i wonder how much politicians got paid to make these things legal.
 
I pretty much just don't fly.

I've driven 1120 miles in a weekend many times before.
 
i was scanned in europe a year ago. it's not that serious.
 
thats europe, laws and rights are different over there.

but, here we have certain privacy rights, and the right to not be searched illegally without probable cause.
buying a plane ticket is not probable cause to be strip searched. whether by machine or man, its a violation of our rights in the US.
 
there's a difference between nazis and xrays, if you say no the xrays didnt gun you down instead of taking you to a death camp... this comparison is a stretch.
 
it's a waste of time. if someone wants to blow up a plane, they can and will.
 
this is true, they dont even have to go to the airport to do it.
the government is full of idiots, real terrorists have access to the same shit our armies do. if they want to blow up a plane, they will do it from the comfort of the ground.
also, the full body scanners do nothing against the terrorists that shove shit in their ass or swallow it. or the fact that they could just get a job at the airport. i would say a good number of would be low key terrorists could pass the background check to be a baggage handler.
 
there's a difference between nazis and xrays, if you say no the xrays didnt gun you down instead of taking you to a death camp... this comparison is a stretch.

Your missing the point. The last time a modern, advanced nation strip searched its entire populace the holocaust ocurred. Now, another modern, advanced nation is strip searching its populace while assaulting their rights on a number of fronts.

ALSO:

I live in new york city. More people take the nyc subway system each day than fly out of most airports. Its only a matter of time before I have to walk through one of these 10 times a day. Body scanners violate our God given rights here in America.
 
why would you give a F*ck? theres just a person in an other room seeing the layers of your clothing, unless your packing some mini hotdogs in there, then your just scared... :)
 
its idiots like you with thinking like that that is making it so easy for them to take away our rights.
oh, its ok. its not hurting you, shouldnt be so scared of them seeing you on a screen anyway.

but its bullshit.
they are saving the images.
Feds admit storing checkpoint body scan images | Privacy Inc. - CNET News

then, if you refuse to do the scan, you essentially get sexually assaulted by a security guard. these arent general pat downs, they grab and feel everything.

i do not feel comfortable being touched like that for any damn reason by another guy.
and i only want to be touched like that by a girl if shes going to finish the job.


but the issue here is that we have rights in this country.
let me refer you to the 4th amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


i underlined and put in bold some of the key parts of it, but its all pretty damned important.
last i checked, buying a plane ticket does not make me guilty or suspicious. im buying a plane ticket to get from point A to point B as quick as possible.

they are doing all of this for what?
make you feel secure that somebody isnt bringing a weapon on the plane?
fuck that. they just made it legal for people in my state to carry guns and concealed weapons (with a permit) in bars and other places (still cant take them into government buildings) because they finally figured out that while law abiding citizens werent taking them into the bars, dirty piece of shit criminals were. leaving the others defenseless.

you want to secure a plane? let me carry my weapon on there legally.
let people with carry permits show their papers, hell, add another certification to the permit to carry on board an airplane if you want to, and let everybody carry their weapons that wish to do so. that will make it more secure.
it levels the playing field.
 
Here is some light reading. Note the date however, Nov of '08. So it is a bit out of date but still has some very valid points.

The Things He Carried - Magazine - The Atlantic

I jumped lines in Salt Lake to avoid the back scatter scanner. People where looking at me like I was weird for doing so. I saw maybe 10 people actually go through it.

And hope801 read through this real quick:

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Civil liberties are not something to be taken for granted. Everyone bitches about how the police treat them when they are pulled over but for some reason because it came from "The Government" it is all better? We need to have a healthy debate about these kinds of things.

It is not a simple cut and dry issue. The TSA should be doing something but this isn't it in my opinion. For some reason we have this idea that our nations enemies are dumb and will simply attempt what has already been done. What Cashizslick said is spot on the NYC subway system probably will have these installed at some point and thats because the subway is an easy target. Tight quarters, poor ventilation and accessibility every where. This is also a target that has not been directly attacked or seriously considered as far as I can tell. Now that is not to say that some alphabet soup agency hasn't thwarted an attempt and kept the lid on it.

You know we can all sit around and talk about how the right wing fear monger machine is out to make everyone piss themselves for votes, but god damn it we do have groups of very, very determined groups and factions that would nothing more than see footage of western blood being spilled on the 5 o'clock news. And for every fear monger there is a left wing cry baby screaming "cant we all just get along" thinking that if we are just nice to these poor misunderstood people we would be a-okay and there would be peace in the middle east. There is truth to both sides but we need to reign in at the right times and unleash holy hell when need be.
 
Your missing the point. The last time a modern, advanced nation strip searched its entire populace the holocaust ocurred. Now, another modern, advanced nation is strip searching its populace while assaulting their rights on a number of fronts.

ALSO:

I live in new york city. More people take the nyc subway system each day than fly out of most airports. Its only a matter of time before I have to walk through one of these 10 times a day. Body scanners violate our God given rights here in America.

I didn't miss the point... I fully understood the dangers of letting a government try to trample on the rights guaranteed to us. I just made a different point against the stretch of the comparison, because we have those rights they didn't in the 30s and 40s in Germany.
 
It sucks being screened, but its a part of life.
If you don't want to be screened then don't fly.
 
I don't like the idea, I will opt out that day. If I were to fly or something. But I doubt I will be that day.


But its a more secure way to check people. I get it. And as someone that has been put into a room and searched, I would have loved having the body scanners than missing my flight that day. But at the time I was coming back from Santa Clara, and flying to bellingham, and could have easily been smuggling some illicit substances.
 
^ LOl just read that and was about to post it. Its on drudgerept so i had to reload the page a few times to get it to work.

The website may not work for everyone, so here’s the text of http://www.pennandteller.com/03/coolstuff/penniphile/roadpennfederalvip.html

Federal V.I.P Penn - 11/13/02
Last Thursday I was flying to LA on the Midnight flight. I went through security my usual sour stuff. I beeped, of course, and was shuttled to the "toss-em" line. A security guy came over. I assumed the position. I had a button up shirt on that was untucked. He reached around while he was behind me and grabbed around my front pocket. I guess he was going for my flashlight, but the area could have loosely been called "crotch." I said, "You have to ask me before you touch me or it's assault."

He said, "Once you cross that line, I can do whatever I want."

I said that wasn't true. I say that I have the option of saying no and not flying. He said, "Are you going to let me search you, or do I just throw you out?"

I said, "Finish up, and then call the police please."

When he was finished with my shoes, he said, "Okay, you can go."

I said, "I'd like to see your supervisor and I'd like LVPD to come here as well. I was assaulted by you."

He said, "You're free to go, there's no problem."

I said, "I have a problem, please send someone over."

They sent a guy over and I said that I'd like to register a complaint. I insisted on his name and badge number. I filled it out with my name. The supervisor, I think trying to intimidate me, asked for my license, and I gave it to him happily as he wrote down information. I kept saying, "Please get the police," and they kept saying, "You're free to go, we don't need the police." I insisted and they got a higher up, female, supervisor. I was polite, cold, and a little funny. "Anyone is welcome to grab my crotch, I don't require dinner and a movie, just ask me. Is that asking too much? You wanna grab my crotch, please ask. Does that seem like a crazy person to you?" I had about 4 of them standing around. Finally Metro PD shows up. It's really interesting. First of all, the cop is a BIG P&T fan and that ain't hurting. Second, I get the vibe that he is WAY sick of these federal leather-sniffers. He has that vibe that real cops have toward renta-cops. This is working WAY to my advantage, so I play it.

The supervisor says to the cop, 'He's free to go. We have no problem, you don't have to be here." Which shows me that the Feds are afraid of local. This is really cool. She says, "We have no trouble and he doesn't want to miss his flight."

I say, "I can take an early morning flight or a private jet. " The cop says, "If I have a citizen who is saying he was assaulted, you can't just send me away."

I tell the cop the story, in a very funny way. The cop, the voice of sanity says, "What's wrong with you people? You can't just grab a guy's crank without his permission." I tell him that my genitals weren't grabbed and the cop says, "I don't care, you can't do that to people. That's assault and battery in my book."

The supervisor says that they'll take care of the security guy. The cop says, "I'm not leaving until Penn tells me to. Now do you want to fill out all the paper work and show up in court, because I'll be right there beside you."

The supervisor says it's an internal matter, and they'll take care of it. "If you want to pursue this, we're going to have to go through the electronic evidence."

I say, "You mean videotape? Yeah, go get it."

She says, "Well, it'll take a long time, and you don't want to miss your flight. We have no problem with you, you're free to go."

The cop says, "Your guy grabbed his crank. That ain't right."

So, I fill out all the paper work and insist on a number to call to register a complaint. She says that I filled out a complaint, and I say, "I want more, give me another number. " She gives me a number that I find out later has been disconnected. I leave. I have a card with the name and number on it and the bad 800 number for the FAA.

My flight is way delayed, so I go to Burger King with Glenn - and all the feds are now off duty and at BK and sneering at us.

The next day the woman in charge of public relations calls me to "do anything to make my McCarran experience more enjoyable." I was a little under the weather with allergies and busy, so I didn't call back until yesterday.

It took some phone tag, but I finally got the woman on the phone. I was very cool and sweet. I explained the problem. "Do you allow your crotch to be grabbed without being asked?" I didn't exaggerate, I said that there was nothing sexual, I wasn't hurt, and it wasn't my genitals. I just said it was wrong. She said "Well, your feedback is really important because most people are afraid of us." She said, "I'd love to meet you so we could clear this up, and everyone wants to meet a celebrity." She said she had watched the videotape and there was no sound, but she saw him reach around. She said she couldn't tell me what was being done to him but . . . and I stopped her and said, she shouldn't do anything wrong.

I said that I had talked to two lawyers and they said it was really a weird case because no one knows if he can be charged with assault and battery while working in that job. But I told her, that some of my lawyer friends really wanted to find out. She said, "Well, we're very new to this job . . ." and I said, "Yeah, so we need these test cases to find out where you stand."

She said, "Well, you know a LOT about this." I said, "Well, it's not really the right word, but freedom is kind of a hobby with me, and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more of it."

She said, "Well, the airport is very important to all of our incomes and we don't want bad press. It'll hurt everyone, but you have to do what you think is right. But, if you give me your itinerary every time you fly, I'll be at the airport with you and we can make sure it's very pleasant for you."

I have no idea what this means, does it mean that they have a special area where all the friskers are topless showgirls, "We have nothing to hide, do you?" I have no idea. She pushes me for the next time I'm flying. I tell her I'm flying to Chicago around 2 on Sunday, if she wants to get that security guy there to sneer at me. She says, she'll be there, and it'll be very easy for me. I have no idea what this means.

I tell her that I'm still thinking about pressing charges, and I don't just care about me, it's freedom in general. I say the only thing that was good about it, was that while they were dealing with me, maybe they weren't beating up people in wheelchairs. It was amazing. All she was trying to do was make me happy. She said she'd burned a CD ROM of my video and it was being sent all around and they were going to change their training. She said, "We're federal employees, we're working for you, you pay us and we want customer satisfaction. It doesn't matter what the law is, we have to make you very happy so your flying experience is a pleasurable one, and most people don't give us this kind of intelligent feedback."

So, that was it. I'm flying on Sunday, I have no idea what will happen. How crazy is this? Do I really have some sort of mysterious VIP status to shut me up? Should I press charges? She said she was going to talk to the cop. I said he didn't see anything. She said, "Well, he may be able to see the forest for the trees, because he was right there." I quoted his "crank" comment and she laughed and then knew that was a very bad sign. I said, "He'll tell you I was polite, cold, angry, and funny" - that's more than should be expected of me. I still don't know what I'm going to do, but my advice to everyone is complain all you can and call the cops. I think it might make a little difference. Maybe you can become a VIP too.


Penn
 
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