Get ready for WWIII

[Briansol]

I thought it would be Korea, or some other middle eastern place it's going to start because of their stupid ways.

But, no, it's our fucking president's mouth that is going to start it.

AP News: Obama tells Israel: Go back to 1967 borders

Seriously Obama, just STFU and run your own god damn country

 

[Ichigo1174]

Oh Shit. SMH!

 

[Battle Pope]

God dammit. We need to go back to being an insular country and worry about our own shit for about 20, 30 years.

 

[Cashizslick]

It will take a lot to convince me that the 0bamster man isnt a muslim.

 

[reckedracing]

glenn beck is apparently planning some sort of pro israel rally, in israel
details to be released tmw, i think.
that should ease tensions and divert any WW3 right...? maybe?
lmao

in other news, did anyone else hear about the song that was sung to obama at a fundraiser?

Dear Mr. President, we honor you today, sir
Each of us brought you $5,000
It takes a lot of Benjamins to run a campaign
I paid my dues, where’s our change?
We’ll vote for you in 2012, yes that’s true
Look at the Republicans — what else can we do?
Even though we don’t know if we’ll retain our liberties
In what you seem content to call a free society
Yes, it’s true that Terry Jones is legally free
To burn a people’s holy book in shameful effigy
But at another location in this country
Alone in a 6×12 cell sits Bradley
23 hours a day is night
The 5th and 8th Amendments say this kind of thing ain’t right
We paid our dues, where’s our change?


Protest Song “Where’s Our Change” Disrupts Obama Fundraiser | American Pendulum


Protesters Sing to Obama: ‘Where’s Our Change?’ - Washington Wire - WSJ

 

[95b16coupe]

wait wait wait, this isnt' the same president obama who won a nobel peace prize is it? the one who was given the prize after he was president even though the nominations for the prize were 6 months BEFORE he wont the election?

 

[Korax]

wait wait wait, this isnt' the same president obama who won a nobel peace prize is it? the one who was given the prize after he was president even though the nominations for the prize were 6 months BEFORE he wont the election?

Yes, yes, aaaand yes.

If you attack someone, and get your land taken away, you deserve it.

 

[DarkHand]

Seriously Obama, just STFU and run your own god damn country

They're so up in our bidness that it's practically the same country anyway.

Israel is our spoiler country... that one country in Risk that you have that keeps the enemy from getting a continent bonus.

 

[Matts96HB]

ugh, i dont want to put up with 4 more years of listening to obama. against the war, then boasting about killing bin laden. lets not "spike the football" but here, we'll release every single god damned detail so that the media will spike it for us. every fucking newspaper has had details about "osama's final moments" blah blah blah. bottom line is the guy was a fucking crook and hes dead, leave it at that. keep the details secret, nobody cares as long as he is dead.

people like my grandmother are the reason this asshat of a figurehead is going to be re-elected. she rants and raves about our debt being too high, but then bitches about people not having enough money and they've all worked so hard but just got fucked over time and time again, blah blah blah..
funny thing is her grandson (me) is working damn near full time and going to school to better himself. i dont get a dime of financial aid, and to be honest i dont deserve it because i have a job and will make it on my own. tuition goes up 13-15% for the most part next year, which means ill be scraping by. thats fine. what pisses me off is that the first thing to receive cuts in this state is the fucking education, because those asshats in DC are trying to make a budget, so the education is sacrificed. are you fucking kidding me? education should be damn near last on the list of things to receive cuts. without education, there is no advance, we become a stagnant society of inbred lazy assfucks (we're getting close).
[/rant that makes no sense][/off topic]

 

[Cashizslick]

If we elect romney or gingrich, will anything change? Spending? War? Debt? 0bamacare?

 

[reckedracing]

where's our change?

 

[Capt. Orygun]

? Maybe I read too much political science but this is not a big deal IMO unless you are a Israeliphile, a neo-con, an anti-Semite, or just not up on your world history.

Obama wants a return to 1967 borders, which would not be taking land from Israel but returning it to who it originally belonged. The areas in question were not originally a part of modern Israel. Any argument that they should now own them because it's their land Biblicaly amounts to theological tyranny.

Neither did Obama give an ultimatum. He said Israel and Palestine could engage in mutual land swaps to make their respective borders more manageable. This is a lesson learned from WWI/WWII when we would try and tell nations what their borders were and then wonder why they invaded each other.

It should be noted that Obama attacked United Nations actions intended to shame Israel (Anti UN). He also demands that any peace include arab recognition of Israel (anti Hamas/PLO), and has reaffirmed both our commitment to them as an ally and their ability to defend themselves without international interference should they be attacked (Anti Hamas/PLO and anti UN).

In short, this has been the bi-partisan stance in America for 20 years. The only reason you don't see the GOP outwardly support it is because they receive big money from jewish donors.

It should be noted that, while the critic will have you believe Obama is throwing his lot in with Palestine, Hamas (the party in power there) rejected Obama's proposal as well.

The UN doesn't like it
Israel doesn't like it
Hamas doesn't like it

Sounds like a compromise if you ask me. It should be noted that the minority parties in both Palestine and Israel have supported Obama's statement.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still not going to vote for the guy, but Obama is mostly right on this issue IMO

 

[Briansol]

How is he right at all? HE/WE have ZERO jurisdiction over this area and should keep us the F out of that area entirely. It's nothing but trouble.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Jurisdiction is a bad word to use in International Relations. The international community is anarchical, there is no authority. By that standard we likewise had no jurisdiction in Europe in WWI/WWII.

As luck, and history, would have it, we do however have a very real responsibility for Israel. All the Allied Powers from WWII do, we created modern Israel.

You are right though, that doesn't mean we have a right to go over there and say what's what. But Obama never mentioned taking control of the area to stabilize it like we did in Iraq between the Kurds, Sunni, and Shiite following our invasion and removal of the Baath party. Infact he really hasn't done much at all besides come out and state what has quietly been our position on this conflict for the last two decades.

In so much as we have a role, as we created the Israel/Arab conflict, we likewise have a role as mediator between them. We have invested a lot of capital, political and otherwise, into the creation of modern Israel we likewise have an interest in protecting Israel from an increasingly hostile international community.

Don't get me wrong, the second Obama starts sending military assets into the regions to impose a solution is the second I jump off the bandwagon. For now, there is nothing wrong in offering support if both sides are willing to compromise. Militarily it will save us a lot of money in the long run and it will give us a huge advantage in dealing with Iran for reasons that are too complex to touch on during my 10 min break from homework. In short, the second the Israel/Palestine conflict is over the Arab world will turn on Iran's current government.

Mid East stability=economic prosperity for the next 30ish years. You say we can't afford to do it, I say we can't afford not to... at least on some level.

 

[Briansol]

Sure we did. Those who were attacked, ie britain, ASKED us for help.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Sure we did. Those who were attacked, ie britain, ASKED us for help.

No, that gave us a reason, jurisdiction is a much different animal

Definition of JURISDICTION


1
: the power, right, or authority to interpret and apply the law

2
a : the authority of a sovereign power to govern or legislate b : the power or right to exercise authority : control

3
: the limits or territory within which authority may be exercised

Jurisdiction - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

In an anarchical system no sovereign ever has jurisdiction over another. The concept of just war (Jus ad Bellum) results from the failure of political means and arguments made in utility. Jus ad Bellum only concerns jurisdiction in domestic (civil war) where the state of anarchy is not present.

This distinction isn't mere sophistry, specifics are required in any international thought process. Anything less lends itself to generalization which lends itself to ideology. Next thing you know we're bombing some other country for not better reason than a guy from Texas told us they are "evil"

 

[Briansol]

You're missing the point.

Neither Isreal, syria, palestine, gaza, nor anyone else in the vicinity has asked us for assistance, help, nor an opinion about anything.

Why obama would even bring it up is simply out of line, and not his place to start anything.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

I have to disagree, he is the head of state for America, that means our allies are his business. Israel is our ally.

Also, as the president, he is expected to take an active part in keeping the country economically viable. The international nature of trade in 2011 is such that any action towards that end in invariably involve other countries. If you don't think the Israeli/Palestine conflict has and will continue to play a role in mideast stability (especially in the light of a new Egypt), and therefore the price of oil, you sir are bat-shit crazy... even if I have never been entirely sure what that phrase is supposed to mean.

Third, what was said ammounted to an offer, not an ultimatum. I would be with you if he issued and order to Israel or something similar, but he just made an offer to another country to assist in a political friction that the US is somewhat responsible for. Taken to the farthest limits, your argument would say it is never right to offer anything to your neighbor unless it is first requested. That has never been recognized as the standard of international conduct.

 

[Briansol]

But Isreal did not ask for Obama to make a statement about it's borders.

In fact, he got so pissed off that he flew here today to meet with Obama.

 

[K2e2vin]

I'm with B: Just because you're a "friend" doesn't give you the right to meddle in their affairs. This is how many fights break out at parties, etc.