Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

tab · 07-02-2005, 12:52 AM

Well guys, I may be a good source of information for this forum, but I learned everything I know from listening.

For quite a long time after my swap, I was constantly fighting the knock sensor CEL code. I thought about cutting it out altogether, and in fact tried in a halfass way to do so, but the computer didn't like it.

I have a decent amount of detonation sound. I have replaced my spark plugs, done and redone my valve timing, and done all the basic tune up stuff. I have replaced my air filter, and also ran octane boosters with my premium in twice the recommended amount. Retarding my timing has not decreased detonation, and at a certain point can actually make it worse.

Here is a strange fact that the old veteran mechanic that I learn from taught me. Retarding timing too far can increase heat, which causes more detonation. On that hint, I advanced my timing, as a troubleshooting measure. Success in part, the detonation decreased, but did not stop.

15 deg +/- 2 is the norm. I have ran from 13-17 with detonation still.

The Knock code which used to plague me, has not appeared in quite some time. It used to retard my timing a lot, and that didn't stop the ping, but killed performance.

My car runs great.
Pinging sound has been normal for a long time, can't hear it during VTEC, but it might be clouded by the increased noise.
I use good gas, and have tried octane boosters.
No codes in months.

I haven't tried a extra ECU, since no one near me has an H22, let alone an auto.
I haven't tried extreme advance of timing or a VAFC.
I was told that the auto P28 application shouldn't be tried, since the P28 is standalone without a TCU for my auto tranny.
Hondata is spendy, and I can afford a new engine if shit goes bad.

Let me know what you think.

I don't downgrade anyone for trying to help.

Driver1, Recked, dohcvtec_accord, your comments would be well appreciated.

Calesta · 07-02-2005, 01:43 AM

Fuel filter? Injectors? I'm guessing that you're not getting enough gas into the engine.

reikoshea · 07-02-2005, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Jul 2 2005, 12:43 AM
Fuel filter? Injectors? I'm guessing that you're not getting enough gas into the engine.

Quoted post

*Listens* I REALLY wanna know the answer to this. I got my EGR valve fixed, and i passed inspection because the knock sensor didnt come on while the car was on the machine, but it doesnt change the fact that it is there.

tab · 07-02-2005, 09:55 PM

could be injectors, but this engine has seen three different fuel filters.

I agree that this is probably a fuel problem. I don't have to put a huge load on the engine to get the ping. I don't have spare injectors lying around to try, or I would.

tab · 07-03-2005, 12:32 AM

I should also add that it doesn't even matter if my car is warmed up or not. The pinging is from about 2k to 5k under half throttle or more. It varies a little, but the range is that wide.

DesertNightEagle · 07-03-2005, 04:36 PM

what's the possibility that you have some carbon build up on some of the valves?

sleepn_accord · 07-03-2005, 05:53 PM

hmm.. mine always has had a knock when it first fires up...and I have always noticed a light amount of detonation around 2500k...

I thought it was fuel related but changed my fuel filter too....it has had me stumped and I quit probing on it....

you do jump your service check connector when adjusting your ignition timing right?

tab · 07-03-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sleepn_accord@Jul 3 2005, 05:53 PM
hmm.. mine always has had a knock when it first fires up...and I have always noticed a light amount of detonation around 2500k...

I thought it was fuel related but changed my fuel filter too....it has had me stumped and I quit probing on it....

you do jump your service check connector when adjusting your ignition timing right?

Quoted post

yes I do.

I've thought about buying another JDM P13 auto ECU to try. Under light throttle I don't notice the sound, so I've assumed that the sound is not valve related in the adjustment or lack of oil sense. I have alse readjusted my valves a few times, and tried three different sets of plugs. Currently, I am using the correct range Iridium NGK plugs. They are quite spendy.

I added the best octane booster the parts store had to 1/4 tank of premium fuel.

Advancing my timing has reduced the amount of detonation I have, and increased my low end torque at the same time. However, detonation is still present, even while the car is cold, which should reduce temperature related ping, and being cold the mixture should be richer.

I'll admit that I'm stumped, and I'm looking for more ways to troubleshoot this enigma. It's so much easier to find out why a car is not running than it is to fix a wierd intermittent problem.

tab · 07-03-2005, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DesertNightEagle@Jul 3 2005, 04:36 PM
what's the possibility that you have some carbon build up on some of the valves?

Quoted post

It's possible, since I've never pulled the head. This engine has seen better than 8k a few times. I'd like to think that most of that shit would be blown off, but I know better. My engine does see the 7k+ range nearly every day and usually more than once when I feel like it.

reikoshea · 07-04-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tab+Jul 3 2005, 07:12 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tab @ Jul 3 2005, 07:12 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DesertNightEagle@Jul 3 2005, 04:36 PM
what's the possibility that you have some carbon build up on some of the valves?

Quoted post

It's possible, since I've never pulled the head. This engine has seen better than 8k a few times. I'd like to think that most of that shit would be blown off, but I know better. My engine does see the 7k+ range nearly every day and usually more than once when I feel like it.

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

Lol i know that feeling of wanting to keep my car in 7k.

I really think this problem might be close to unfixable. Me and my buddy completely took apart my head to replace my head gasket yesterday and my valves are all perfect, i dont know what could be causing that ping. Mine only hits whenever the car has warmed up (meaning in the red kinda warmed up). I doubt its the valves, and i barely had the 90 bucks for the gasket. Ill replace the injectors soon, and ill let you know if it fixes the knock.

Real quick question. Does your rev limiter kill your car at 120? I still have about 1800 RPMs until redline, but i hit a fuel cutoff at 120.

tab · 07-04-2005, 01:37 PM

yeah the ECU tops out your car at 120 unless you chip it or replace it.

driver1 · 07-05-2005, 07:38 PM

As odd as it may seem I to have this same problem...and actually today was the first time i had the check engine lighht come on and had a chance to scan it. Well actualy i lied i did it once a long time ago and it came up the same......code 23 knock sensor problem. Also what i got today. I know this is not a sensor issue itself as i had to put a brand new one in when i did the swap due to it being broken from shipping. being that the sensor has to be wired in I suppose it could be a wiring issue....but i doubt it. As i see it its to intermittent to be wiring......bad ground or something???maybe....but i doubt it as it only throws a code about once every three weeks to a month. So her i sit amungst all of you, stumped as a motherfucker as well. as far as the ecu thing goes im also doubting this being the cause as there are now 3 of us all with he same intertmittent issue at hand. now let me tell u all this, I have a p72 ecu running my car with a vafc for fuel correction. the p72 DOES runa leaner fuel map which could be part of my problem but as far as i can see ive corrected that almost 100% cause its def not a frequent code. Also as far as i can tell or hear i do not get any detonation or not much anyhow....and do not hear any ping. I always run premium fuel, and even with the code do not experience any power decrease....so i guess with all that being said, the question now is who has the fucking answer??????? I haver no major problems with my car and drive it everyday, but i do have a cuople small quirks such as this one that are soon to make me go out of my gord.Let me know what u guys can conclude form any of the above info

reikoshea · 07-05-2005, 08:14 PM

Dude you fuckin kill me. Im readin this at work and i had to put my hand over my mouth to keep from laughin. The VAFC might be helping you out with your fuel maps. I really dont hear the ping when im driving, but i do hear it at idle (2000 Rpms on my EFFED UP MOTOR). I really hope someone out there figures this out cause the ABS light bugs me and the CEL REALLY bugs me.

driver1 · 07-05-2005, 09:05 PM

hehe, i do my best....but anyhow the vafc IS def correcting the lean fuel map, cause without it and just the p72 ecu the car will fall on its face when vtec engages but then come out of it after and still pull. So being that i was able to get rid of this completely ill go ahead and assume its doing its job of correcting the fuel issues. Otherwise ill go out on a limp here and say that maybe h22's have very picky and quirky knock sensors which will alomost always throw a code......

dave_255 · 07-05-2005, 09:51 PM

i had a problem with my knock sensor but it was more of a wiring problem. but i never had any detonation or anything. on an offpoint. this probably a very stupid question. but here it goes anyway. i have an auto h22a also with trans but i have my original tcu. how do i get it to reach redline on 7000. i always get to 6000 and it shift. sorry for thread jacking

tab · 07-05-2005, 11:02 PM

Dave, just floor that fucker and ride it to redline. Your ECU should cut off the fuel at 7600ish. Before adding my catback, my cutoff didn't work at all. That's why I can say I've been over 8k.

After adding my catback, my car actually makes good power up to the cutoff(7600), which began working properly after the exhaust install.

This leads me to my next point. With all of us adding less restrictive airflow paths, we might be leading ourselves down the path to leaner fuel mixtures. I have a cold air intake, header, and catback. I make sweet power, but nothing has adjusted my fuel yet. I don't want a cheap ass ebay chip or guessing on fuel maps.

My car is my daily driver, and so far the pinging hasn't caused any damage THAT I CAN SEE. I'm just hoping that I don't blow a hole in a piston any time soon.

n1mr0d · 07-05-2005, 11:19 PM

I'm only guessing and would like to try to help.

What is your fuel pressure? Does any of you have access to a dyno and a large fuel pressure dial indicator? It canbe taped to the windshield as the driver makes the pulls on the dyno? Making sure their are no dips in the pressure?

Is the fuel pump bad, old, crusty or intermittly losing ground shutting it off?

As you all have said it could be anything. And the last thing any of us want to do when we have a problem is start replacing parts that aren't nessicarlly defective.

tab · 07-05-2005, 11:22 PM

Thanks for the suggestion, it's a good thought.

This is the second car I've had this engine installed into, so basically I've already tried two pumps. I can't speak for everyone else.

LOS222 · 07-07-2005, 03:28 AM

Tab,
Don't you live in Denver? I have a auto H22 accord OBD1. If you want to get together, let me know and I'll let you try out my ecu.

. I am going to be switching to a 5-speed so maybe if this is the problem, you could buy the ecu off of me.

dohcvtec_accord · 07-07-2005, 02:26 PM

Nope, that's me.

tab lives....elsewhere.

tab · 07-08-2005, 07:50 PM

Aberdeen, Washington State

98520 Represent yo!!!!

DesertNightEagle · 07-10-2005, 08:46 AM

have you guys heard about this SeaFoam stuff? I was reading a few posts on honda-tech.com and some people have the same problem and used SeaFoam and they say it took away the pinging and made their car run like new. I have no clue what it actually does or how it works.

reikoshea · 08-30-2005, 12:43 AM

I was looking up this topic for another thread...has anyone tried seafoam yet...seems like a cheap fix to try (i just have to have a car to try it on).

VTECin5th · 08-30-2005, 02:13 AM

for what it's worth here, i used to work at AutoZone and 3 of my managers swear by seaFoam and Lucas, they refuse to put anything else in any of their cars.
One of the guys was a honda engineer for 11 years in ohio.
[ Yea, i know what you're thinking, why work at autozone making $12 an hour when you have $$$ like crazy from being an engineer at Honda???
Hobby job, must be nice huh? ]

tab · 09-08-2005, 05:51 PM

Slight update:

My car started idling erratically. I adjusted my TPS, since it was a tad off. Like .540 instead of .500 on the multimeter.

Since adjustment, my warm idle went back to normal (it was fucking up for about two weeks after warming up.) My pinging is less, but still not gone. This may be due to the fact that I haven't readjusted my timing yet. The pinging isn't that bad, but I don't like ANY.

07-02-2005, 12:52 AM	#1
tab Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Washington State Posts: 3,736 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 03 Avalanche Rep Power: 52	Well guys, I may be a good source of information for this forum, but I learned everything I know from listening. For quite a long time after my swap, I was constantly fighting the knock sensor CEL code. I thought about cutting it out altogether, and in fact tried in a halfass way to do so, but the computer didn't like it. I have a decent amount of detonation sound. I have replaced my spark plugs, done and redone my valve timing, and done all the basic tune up stuff. I have replaced my air filter, and also ran octane boosters with my premium in twice the recommended amount. Retarding my timing has not decreased detonation, and at a certain point can actually make it worse. Here is a strange fact that the old veteran mechanic that I learn from taught me. Retarding timing too far can increase heat, which causes more detonation. On that hint, I advanced my timing, as a troubleshooting measure. Success in part, the detonation decreased, but did not stop. 15 deg +/- 2 is the norm. I have ran from 13-17 with detonation still. The Knock code which used to plague me, has not appeared in quite some time. It used to retard my timing a lot, and that didn't stop the ping, but killed performance. My car runs great. Pinging sound has been normal for a long time, can't hear it during VTEC, but it might be clouded by the increased noise. I use good gas, and have tried octane boosters. No codes in months. I haven't tried a extra ECU, since no one near me has an H22, let alone an auto. I haven't tried extreme advance of timing or a VAFC. I was told that the auto P28 application shouldn't be tried, since the P28 is standalone without a TCU for my auto tranny. Hondata is spendy, and I can afford a new engine if shit goes bad. Let me know what you think. I don't downgrade anyone for trying to help. Driver1, Recked, dohcvtec_accord, your comments would be well appreciated. __________________ -------------------- -------------------- 2003 Chevy Avalanche Leather, Moonroof, Z71, tow package, bose+six disc, nice. 1992 Accord EX (sold to good friends) JDM H22A H22A Auto Tranny w/LSD I/H/E -- All stainless w/2.5 inch Catback 1968 Oldsmobile Toronado Project car, 455 ci front wheel drive, nasty.

07-05-2005, 07:38 PM	#12
driver1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,978 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 34	As odd as it may seem I to have this same problem...and actually today was the first time i had the check engine lighht come on and had a chance to scan it. Well actualy i lied i did it once a long time ago and it came up the same......code 23 knock sensor problem. Also what i got today. I know this is not a sensor issue itself as i had to put a brand new one in when i did the swap due to it being broken from shipping. being that the sensor has to be wired in I suppose it could be a wiring issue....but i doubt it. As i see it its to intermittent to be wiring......bad ground or something???maybe....but i doubt it as it only throws a code about once every three weeks to a month. So her i sit amungst all of you, stumped as a motherfucker as well. as far as the ecu thing goes im also doubting this being the cause as there are now 3 of us all with he same intertmittent issue at hand. now let me tell u all this, I have a p72 ecu running my car with a vafc for fuel correction. the p72 DOES runa leaner fuel map which could be part of my problem but as far as i can see ive corrected that almost 100% cause its def not a frequent code. Also as far as i can tell or hear i do not get any detonation or not much anyhow....and do not hear any ping. I always run premium fuel, and even with the code do not experience any power decrease....so i guess with all that being said, the question now is who has the fucking answer??????? I haver no major problems with my car and drive it everyday, but i do have a cuople small quirks such as this one that are soon to make me go out of my gord.Let me know what u guys can conclude form any of the above info __________________ 94 Honda Accord, jdm h22 swapped daily driver 04 cbr600rr fun toy 95 toyota tacoma, lifted winter truck

07-05-2005, 11:02 PM	#16
tab Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Washington State Posts: 3,736 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 03 Avalanche Rep Power: 52	Dave, just floor that fucker and ride it to redline. Your ECU should cut off the fuel at 7600ish. Before adding my catback, my cutoff didn't work at all. That's why I can say I've been over 8k. After adding my catback, my car actually makes good power up to the cutoff(7600), which began working properly after the exhaust install. This leads me to my next point. With all of us adding less restrictive airflow paths, we might be leading ourselves down the path to leaner fuel mixtures. I have a cold air intake, header, and catback. I make sweet power, but nothing has adjusted my fuel yet. I don't want a cheap ass ebay chip or guessing on fuel maps. My car is my daily driver, and so far the pinging hasn't caused any damage THAT I CAN SEE. I'm just hoping that I don't blow a hole in a piston any time soon. __________________ -------------------- -------------------- 2003 Chevy Avalanche Leather, Moonroof, Z71, tow package, bose+six disc, nice. 1992 Accord EX (sold to good friends) JDM H22A H22A Auto Tranny w/LSD I/H/E -- All stainless w/2.5 inch Catback 1968 Oldsmobile Toronado Project car, 455 ci front wheel drive, nasty.


Welcome, Guest! Please Register or Login: User Name Password Members have access to more features, better search, and see fewer ads! It's free, what are you waiting for?

07-02-2005, 01:43 AM	#2
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 25,414 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 392	Fuel filter? Injectors? I'm guessing that you're not getting enough gas into the engine.

07-02-2005, 09:55 PM	#4
tab Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Washington State Posts: 3,736 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 03 Avalanche Rep Power: 52	could be injectors, but this engine has seen three different fuel filters. I agree that this is probably a fuel problem. I don't have to put a huge load on the engine to get the ping. I don't have spare injectors lying around to try, or I would.

07-03-2005, 12:32 AM	#5
tab Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Washington State Posts: 3,736 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 03 Avalanche Rep Power: 52	I should also add that it doesn't even matter if my car is warmed up or not. The pinging is from about 2k to 5k under half throttle or more. It varies a little, but the range is that wide.

07-03-2005, 04:36 PM	#6
DesertNightEagle Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Perryville, MD Posts: 240 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 16	what's the possibility that you have some carbon build up on some of the valves?

07-03-2005, 05:53 PM	#7
sleepn_accord Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 235 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 16	hmm.. mine always has had a knock when it first fires up...and I have always noticed a light amount of detonation around 2500k... I thought it was fuel related but changed my fuel filter too....it has had me stumped and I quit probing on it.... you do jump your service check connector when adjusting your ignition timing right?

07-04-2005, 01:37 PM	#11
tab Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Washington State Posts: 3,736 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 03 Avalanche Rep Power: 52	yeah the ECU tops out your car at 120 unless you chip it or replace it.

07-05-2005, 08:14 PM	#13
reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Age: 24 Posts: 10,949 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2001 Honda S2000 Rep Power: 270	Dude you fuckin kill me. Im readin this at work and i had to put my hand over my mouth to keep from laughin. The VAFC might be helping you out with your fuel maps. I really dont hear the ping when im driving, but i do hear it at idle (2000 Rpms on my EFFED UP MOTOR). I really hope someone out there figures this out cause the ABS light bugs me and the CEL REALLY bugs me.

07-05-2005, 09:05 PM	#14
driver1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,978 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 34	hehe, i do my best....but anyhow the vafc IS def correcting the lean fuel map, cause without it and just the p72 ecu the car will fall on its face when vtec engages but then come out of it after and still pull. So being that i was able to get rid of this completely ill go ahead and assume its doing its job of correcting the fuel issues. Otherwise ill go out on a limp here and say that maybe h22's have very picky and quirky knock sensors which will alomost always throw a code......

07-05-2005, 09:51 PM	#15
dave_255 Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 56 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	i had a problem with my knock sensor but it was more of a wiring problem. but i never had any detonation or anything. on an offpoint. this probably a very stupid question. but here it goes anyway. i have an auto h22a also with trans but i have my original tcu. how do i get it to reach redline on 7000. i always get to 6000 and it shift. sorry for thread jacking

07-05-2005, 11:19 PM	#17
n1mr0d Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Channahon, IL Posts: 238 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 14	I'm only guessing and would like to try to help. What is your fuel pressure? Does any of you have access to a dyno and a large fuel pressure dial indicator? It canbe taped to the windshield as the driver makes the pulls on the dyno? Making sure their are no dips in the pressure? Is the fuel pump bad, old, crusty or intermittly losing ground shutting it off? As you all have said it could be anything. And the last thing any of us want to do when we have a problem is start replacing parts that aren't nessicarlly defective.

07-05-2005, 11:22 PM	#18
tab Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Washington State Posts: 3,736 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 03 Avalanche Rep Power: 52	Thanks for the suggestion, it's a good thought. This is the second car I've had this engine installed into, so basically I've already tried two pumps. I can't speak for everyone else.

07-07-2005, 03:28 AM	#19
LOS222 Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 95 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 14	Tab, Don't you live in Denver? I have a auto H22 accord OBD1. If you want to get together, let me know and I'll let you try out my ecu. . I am going to be switching to a 5-speed so maybe if this is the problem, you could buy the ecu off of me.

07-07-2005, 02:26 PM	#20
dohcvtec_accord WRX Sellout Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The left lane Age: 32 Posts: 8,498 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2002 WRB Impreza WRX Rep Power: 100	Nope, that's me. tab lives....elsewhere.

07-08-2005, 07:50 PM	#21
tab Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Washington State Posts: 3,736 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 03 Avalanche Rep Power: 52	Aberdeen, Washington State 98520 Represent yo!!!!

07-10-2005, 08:46 AM	#22
DesertNightEagle Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Perryville, MD Posts: 240 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 16	have you guys heard about this SeaFoam stuff? I was reading a few posts on honda-tech.com and some people have the same problem and used SeaFoam and they say it took away the pinging and made their car run like new. I have no clue what it actually does or how it works.

08-30-2005, 12:43 AM	#23
reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Age: 24 Posts: 10,949 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2001 Honda S2000 Rep Power: 270	I was looking up this topic for another thread...has anyone tried seafoam yet...seems like a cheap fix to try (i just have to have a car to try it on).

08-30-2005, 02:13 AM	#24
VTECin5th Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix Az Age: 24 Posts: 2,188 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 41	for what it's worth here, i used to work at AutoZone and 3 of my managers swear by seaFoam and Lucas, they refuse to put anything else in any of their cars. One of the guys was a honda engineer for 11 years in ohio. [ Yea, i know what you're thinking, why work at autozone making $12 an hour when you have $$$ like crazy from being an engineer at Honda??? Hobby job, must be nice huh? ]

09-08-2005, 05:51 PM	#25
tab Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Washington State Posts: 3,736 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 03 Avalanche Rep Power: 52	Slight update: My car started idling erratically. I adjusted my TPS, since it was a tad off. Like .540 instead of .500 on the multimeter. Since adjustment, my warm idle went back to normal (it was fucking up for about two weeks after warming up.) My pinging is less, but still not gone. This may be due to the fact that I haven't readjusted my timing yet. The pinging isn't that bad, but I don't like ANY.

Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

Let's see how much you've learned