Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

wougoose · 10-23-2006, 04:45 PM

Well, I've been trying to figure this out for the past 4-5 months with no luck what so ever. I have an 88 CRX with a b16 SIR I. When I bought the car everything worked great and it performed like a champ. After about 6 months, problems began occuring.

Problem: I've been experiencing a huge loss in performance. These are my symptoms:

Bogging at full throttle. The bogging usually happens at low RPMs when I push my foot on the gas quickly. It also occurs at high rpm after vtec kicks in. The bogging will only occur when I am at full throttle. If I let up on the gas while it is bogging, it will immediately stop bogging and rev like normal.
Bogging at constant throttle. If I am on the highway and have the throttle at a constant position, after a little while it will start slowly bogging and I will start losing power until I push on the gas just a little.
Backfiring. If I let up on the gas and the rpms begin dropping, the car will backfire occasionally. This used to not happen at all before all of these bogging issues started happening.
Hesitation. The car will sometimes hesitate when accelerating.

All of these problems did not occur before this bogging issue started. When the bogging did start, I noticed I had Error Code 7. So I spent a long time figuring out that not only was my TPS broken, but the wires were reversed. So after replacing the TPS and fixing the wiring, I no longer get any error codes or CEL. The TPS is providing .5 volts at closed throttle and 4.38 at wide open throttle.

What i've tried so far:

Replaced o2 sensor
Replaced fuel filter

Neither of these solved the problem. My next thought might be the fuel pump. Maybe the engine isn't getting enough fuel at max throttle? Or maybe it is being flooded and causing the bogging at low RPMs when I quickly push down the throttle. Could this also be a wiring or electrical issue? The guy who wired the car did a really crappy job, as I soon found out after buying it (Yay for secondhand swaps).

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This problem has frustrated me to the point where I just don't want to throw down more money replacing things unless I can isolate the problem.

nikozai · 10-24-2006, 04:12 AM

You say you replaced the O2 sensor. Are you aware you're supposed to have 2 O2 Sensors on a OBD0 B16?
One located on the 1-4 exhaust runner merge point, and one at 2-3's merge point.
Completely disconnect the O2 sensor and see if it clears up a little. Running without an O2 connected is better than having them connected wrong.

And as for your wiring being crappy. That can cause every problem known to Honda =) Fix it, or pay me to fix it.

Rywire
|
V

Citizen_Insane · 10-24-2006, 03:06 PM

When you swapped in the b16, did you switch the wires for the O2 sensors? I had this same problem, but to a lesser extent, with my b16 in a 90 CRX.

The Japanese motor has the plugs on the O2 sensors backwards so you need to cut off your stock plug and wire that one to the ECU separately and then use the plug that came with your motor (for the second O2 that you didn't originally have) and wire that to where your original plug was. I hope this makes sense. If it doesn't fix it or makes it worse, its an easy to put back, something worth trying for sure.

nikozai · 10-24-2006, 05:30 PM

update: she PM'd me, said he never had a secondary O2. That's probably his issue, however it does sound more severe than i've ever heard of.

wougoose · 10-24-2006, 06:10 PM

I disconnected the o2 sensor and the symptoms still exist. It actually seems worse than before. It still confuses me that this is the issue when everything was running smoothly and it has just gradually gotten worse and worse. Anyone have a pic where the 2nd o2 sensor should be located?

Citizen_Insane · 10-24-2006, 07:09 PM

You DEF need 2 O2 sensor inputs. The stock b16 has a 4-2-1 header and there is an O2 at each Y so each sensor reads 2 cylinders. If you're running an aftermarket 4-1 header you can wire the same O2 sensor to both inputs of the ECU for a ghetto fix that should make the car run better. Ideally however, you need to have the 2 O2 sensors in the correct place for the car to run right.

wougoose · 10-25-2006, 12:13 AM

Alright, well I do have an aftermarket dc header. As soon as I get a chance i'll take a look and see what I can see.

Citizen_Insane · 10-25-2006, 04:52 PM

If its 4-1 you're always going to have some problems. I've heard of people running 2 O2 sensors right next to eachother on the collector and of people making the sensors read only 1 tube each also. Neither of these is ideal and you should do some more research on how to setup your electronics.

nikozai · 10-26-2006, 11:32 PM

It's probably a 4-2-1, they're more common.

Citizen_Insane · 10-27-2006, 05:41 PM

um...wtf? Do you know him? How can you possibly make that assumption? I see way more 4-1 headers on cars because of the whole "4-1 increases overall hp" thing. I'll wait for a reply from the dude that owns the car.

nikozai · 10-27-2006, 05:52 PM

haha don't get all beligerent. talked on PM a lil. It's tre 4-1's increase performance but i see more people with CRX's worried about ground clearance buying the 4-2-1's. =)
Yes it's pure speculation, but I'll bet you $2.00 over paypal that it's a 4-2-1 LOL serious! haha

Andrew · 10-27-2006, 05:52 PM

18 posts and already on some peoples nerves... lets here it for Rywire!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikozai

You really need help. More than I can give in a post.
Give me a call at rywire in the afternoon, i can edumacate you a lil ~ Peter
#'s on the website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikozai

or pay me to fix it.
Rywire
|
V

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikozai

Rywire is JKOBD (or has been since Oct. 05) so maybe call us

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikozai

wow 600 posts and you post THAT. lemme guess, english isn't your first language? =)
Rywire.com carries EVERYTHING you need.
Wiring conversion, OBD1 distributor, OBD1 chipped ECU etc...

... your advertisement tactics are getting tiresome.
you are derogatory to people, then push them in your direction to pay you for your services?

nice.

HOWHOW · 10-27-2006, 08:36 PM

Any1 selling b15 or b16 block...
houston,tx

wougoose · 11-19-2006, 07:06 PM

Well, it turned out to be a simple ignition problem. I replaced my cap/rotor/wires/plugs and the bogging went away. I am still having an issue where it will randomly bog while cruising, and I have to completely let up on the gas and push back down on the gas and it will then be fine. I'm wondering if my fuel pump is going out or has crap in it...

1320king · 11-21-2006, 08:06 PM

ya i have the same prob. with my b16 driving normal at a 45 or how ever fast then start losing power and bogging. idk what it is. my friends b16 crx has the same prob. did you find out what it is?

wougoose · 11-21-2006, 08:17 PM

Yeah I finally took it down and had it looked at. The problem with random bogging while cruising was caused by my o2 sensor being bad. With my custom dc header, the o2 sensor is farther down the exhaust and therefore doesn't get as much heat and fouls up quicker. A new heated o2 sensor was wired in to provide the heat instead of the 1 wire o2 sensor that I had previously. My bogging problem is now gone.

wougoose · 11-21-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320king

ya i have the same prob. with my b16 driving normal at a 45 or how ever fast then start losing power and bogging. idk what it is. my friends b16 crx has the same prob. did you find out what it is?

How many o2 sensors do you have? If you only have 1, make sure it is wired correctly at the ecu. Have your cars always had the bogging problem? Or has it just started recently? If it was working correctly at one time, like mine was, your wiring is probably fine and you probably need to replace the o2 sensor.

1320king · 11-22-2006, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wougoose

How many o2 sensors do you have? If you only have 1, make sure it is wired correctly at the ecu. Have your cars always had the bogging problem? Or has it just started recently? If it was working correctly at one time, like mine was, your wiring is probably fine and you probably need to replace the o2 sensor.

i have 2 o2's, i never wired anything on my car only the vtec everythingels was plug and play. it always was losing power at a steady speed, id have to press the gas like 8-10% more, then it drives normal. so you think its the 2 o2's?

wougoose · 11-23-2006, 01:13 AM

Most likely the o2's are causing it. Either it is bad wiring or the sensor(s) are on their way out. If the problem has been happening since the swap, make sure the wiring is correct. If you are pretty confident the wiring is correct, I'd replace the sensors and see if that solves it.

1320king · 11-23-2006, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wougoose

Most likely the o2's are causing it. Either it is bad wiring or the sensor(s) are on their way out. If the problem has been happening since the swap, make sure the wiring is correct. If you are pretty confident the wiring is correct, I'd replace the sensors and see if that solves it.

ya im pretty confident that the wiring is good cause i never had to wire anything i used the stock wireharness... b4 the swap my old motor ran with no prob.

10-23-2006, 04:45 PM	#1
wougoose Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Age: 23 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	b16 obd0 - Bogging Nightmare! Well, I've been trying to figure this out for the past 4-5 months with no luck what so ever. I have an 88 CRX with a b16 SIR I. When I bought the car everything worked great and it performed like a champ. After about 6 months, problems began occuring. Problem: I've been experiencing a huge loss in performance. These are my symptoms: Bogging at full throttle. The bogging usually happens at low RPMs when I push my foot on the gas quickly. It also occurs at high rpm after vtec kicks in. The bogging will only occur when I am at full throttle. If I let up on the gas while it is bogging, it will immediately stop bogging and rev like normal. Bogging at constant throttle. If I am on the highway and have the throttle at a constant position, after a little while it will start slowly bogging and I will start losing power until I push on the gas just a little. Backfiring. If I let up on the gas and the rpms begin dropping, the car will backfire occasionally. This used to not happen at all before all of these bogging issues started happening. Hesitation. The car will sometimes hesitate when accelerating. All of these problems did not occur before this bogging issue started. When the bogging did start, I noticed I had Error Code 7. So I spent a long time figuring out that not only was my TPS broken, but the wires were reversed. So after replacing the TPS and fixing the wiring, I no longer get any error codes or CEL. The TPS is providing .5 volts at closed throttle and 4.38 at wide open throttle. What i've tried so far: Replaced o2 sensor Replaced fuel filter Neither of these solved the problem. My next thought might be the fuel pump. Maybe the engine isn't getting enough fuel at max throttle? Or maybe it is being flooded and causing the bogging at low RPMs when I quickly push down the throttle. Could this also be a wiring or electrical issue? The guy who wired the car did a really crappy job, as I soon found out after buying it (Yay for secondhand swaps). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This problem has frustrated me to the point where I just don't want to throw down more money replacing things unless I can isolate the problem.

10-24-2006, 04:12 AM	#2
nikozai Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	You say you replaced the O2 sensor. Are you aware you're supposed to have 2 O2 Sensors on a OBD0 B16? One located on the 1-4 exhaust runner merge point, and one at 2-3's merge point. Completely disconnect the O2 sensor and see if it clears up a little. Running without an O2 connected is better than having them connected wrong. And as for your wiring being crappy. That can cause every problem known to Honda =) Fix it, or pay me to fix it. Rywire \| V __________________ Owner of Rywire.com http://www.rywire.com ECU Jumpers, DPFI conversions, subharnesses etc...

10-24-2006, 03:06 PM	#3
Citizen_Insane Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 3,701 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 51	When you swapped in the b16, did you switch the wires for the O2 sensors? I had this same problem, but to a lesser extent, with my b16 in a 90 CRX. The Japanese motor has the plugs on the O2 sensors backwards so you need to cut off your stock plug and wire that one to the ECU separately and then use the plug that came with your motor (for the second O2 that you didn't originally have) and wire that to where your original plug was. I hope this makes sense. If it doesn't fix it or makes it worse, its an easy to put back, something worth trying for sure. __________________ No tech questions through PM please! B16 CRX....you will be missed

10-24-2006, 05:30 PM	#4
nikozai Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	update: she PM'd me, said he never had a secondary O2. That's probably his issue, however it does sound more severe than i've ever heard of. __________________ Owner of Rywire.com http://www.rywire.com ECU Jumpers, DPFI conversions, subharnesses etc...

10-24-2006, 06:10 PM	#5
wougoose Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Age: 23 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	I disconnected the o2 sensor and the symptoms still exist. It actually seems worse than before. It still confuses me that this is the issue when everything was running smoothly and it has just gradually gotten worse and worse. Anyone have a pic where the 2nd o2 sensor should be located? Last edited by wougoose; 10-24-2006 at 06:35 PM.


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10-24-2006, 07:09 PM	#6
Citizen_Insane Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 3,701 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 51	You DEF need 2 O2 sensor inputs. The stock b16 has a 4-2-1 header and there is an O2 at each Y so each sensor reads 2 cylinders. If you're running an aftermarket 4-1 header you can wire the same O2 sensor to both inputs of the ECU for a ghetto fix that should make the car run better. Ideally however, you need to have the 2 O2 sensors in the correct place for the car to run right. __________________ No tech questions through PM please! B16 CRX....you will be missed

10-25-2006, 12:13 AM	#7
wougoose Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Age: 23 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	Alright, well I do have an aftermarket dc header. As soon as I get a chance i'll take a look and see what I can see. Last edited by wougoose; 10-25-2006 at 12:49 AM.

10-25-2006, 04:52 PM	#8
Citizen_Insane Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 3,701 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 51	If its 4-1 you're always going to have some problems. I've heard of people running 2 O2 sensors right next to eachother on the collector and of people making the sensors read only 1 tube each also. Neither of these is ideal and you should do some more research on how to setup your electronics. __________________ No tech questions through PM please! B16 CRX....you will be missed

10-26-2006, 11:32 PM	#9
nikozai Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	It's probably a 4-2-1, they're more common. __________________ Owner of Rywire.com http://www.rywire.com ECU Jumpers, DPFI conversions, subharnesses etc...

10-27-2006, 05:41 PM	#10
Citizen_Insane Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 3,701 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 51	um...wtf? Do you know him? How can you possibly make that assumption? I see way more 4-1 headers on cars because of the whole "4-1 increases overall hp" thing. I'll wait for a reply from the dude that owns the car. __________________ No tech questions through PM please! B16 CRX....you will be missed

10-27-2006, 05:52 PM	#11
nikozai Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	haha don't get all beligerent. talked on PM a lil. It's tre 4-1's increase performance but i see more people with CRX's worried about ground clearance buying the 4-2-1's. =) Yes it's pure speculation, but I'll bet you $2.00 over paypal that it's a 4-2-1 LOL serious! haha __________________ Owner of Rywire.com http://www.rywire.com ECU Jumpers, DPFI conversions, subharnesses etc...

10-27-2006, 08:36 PM	#13
HOWHOW Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Houston Age: 28 Posts: 6 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: JDM Rep Power: 0	Any1 selling b15 or b16 block... houston,tx

11-19-2006, 07:06 PM	#14
wougoose Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Age: 23 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	Well, it turned out to be a simple ignition problem. I replaced my cap/rotor/wires/plugs and the bogging went away. I am still having an issue where it will randomly bog while cruising, and I have to completely let up on the gas and push back down on the gas and it will then be fine. I'm wondering if my fuel pump is going out or has crap in it...

11-21-2006, 08:06 PM	#15
1320king Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 11 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 11	ya i have the same prob. with my b16 driving normal at a 45 or how ever fast then start losing power and bogging. idk what it is. my friends b16 crx has the same prob. did you find out what it is?

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11-21-2006, 08:17 PM	#16
wougoose Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Age: 23 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	Yeah I finally took it down and had it looked at. The problem with random bogging while cruising was caused by my o2 sensor being bad. With my custom dc header, the o2 sensor is farther down the exhaust and therefore doesn't get as much heat and fouls up quicker. A new heated o2 sensor was wired in to provide the heat instead of the 1 wire o2 sensor that I had previously. My bogging problem is now gone.

11-23-2006, 01:13 AM	#19
wougoose Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Age: 23 Posts: 13 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 7	Most likely the o2's are causing it. Either it is bad wiring or the sensor(s) are on their way out. If the problem has been happening since the swap, make sure the wiring is correct. If you are pretty confident the wiring is correct, I'd replace the sensors and see if that solves it.

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b16 obd0 - Bogging Nightmare!