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This is a discussion on Honda EF Swap.. Questions in the HYBRID -> ED-EF / DA forum
Ok fellas... first post on this site... To give a little background I am into 4x4's and bikes so "tuner" cars are a little new to me. I just bought 2 91 Civic Hatchbacks as I wanted a car for better fuel economy. I have ...
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|01-02-2007, 11:21 AM||#1|
Honda EF Swap.. Questions
Ok fellas... first post on this site...
To give a little background I am into 4x4's and bikes so "tuner" cars are a little new to me. I just bought 2 91 Civic Hatchbacks as I wanted a car for better fuel economy. I have to say I am impressed with that. One of the cars I am using daily, but the other came with no engine, lowered 2 inches with coil overs and a couple other little things. I was a little apprehensive about these at first.. and you can see why:
My Truck vs My Honda
Ok anyway... as I drive this thing I find it is pretty fun.. to the point now I wanna build the second one. Mine has a 1.5 liter dual point with the 4 speed so it is kinda slow... but I know these cars can become hybrids and built.
I have a transmission that came from a 92 Integra GS-R that came from the guy that used to own this car and he said they were pretty sought after... but now I am wondering what motor to use...
I have done some reading and realize there are many options and it can get quite confusing.
Reading pissedoffsol's technical posts give some good info but still not sure what I am looking to purchase in terms of motor. This car will be strictly a street car just for use as a toy so 8 second quater miles doesnt mean to much to me.
In his articles I saw what swaps were recomended but really have not seen what would be best as far as hp, torque etc. Also in doing reading the Vtec s are in a class of their own, and which is right which is wrong, what do I need to look out for etc. I want something where replacement parts are easy to come by (go to Autozone and get a waterpump type thing) and also will give some of the high HP domestics a run for their money... maybe even put a turbo or supercharger on it at a later date.
Anyway any help would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks in advance.
|01-03-2007, 07:51 PM||#3|
Hey bro, welcome to the Honda world! First off, THANKS. Thanks for reading and researching before you post. Most of the time people don't even try to learn/understand, but I can definatly tell your not that kinda guy... ANYway...
If you've got that 92 GSR trans(B series), which is cable driven, your one step ahead of the game, because YES they are pretty hard to come by, and have great gearing, PLUS it will let you use your stock clutch cable when you swap motors.
The easiest B series motor for you to drop in into your civic would probably be the B18A out of the integra LS', so I'll talk about that.
Honda civics before 1996 had only D-series motors.
When you wanna swap in an Integra motor(B-series), and get some more power/torque, you'll need a couple things to get it rollin.
1. A hybrid engine mount kit.
Hasport Performance, Inc.
2. Hybrid engine shift linkage.
Hasport Performance, Inc.
3. Axles. Lucky for us, 90-93 integra axles work perfect. it's a 3 piece setup(pass. side, midshaft, and drivers side).
4. ECU*. theres LOTS of ones to choose from(click me), but the general rule of thumb is use the ECU out of the car the motor came in (no brainer right?)
-91 is obd-0.
92-95 is obd-1
96-00 is obd-2 . Then you've got your obd-2a/b's etc.. but you don't care about that... obd-1 is the best system to run, because of it's ease of tuning.
Now to swap an LS motor(b18a) into your ride, you'll only have to convert your fuel system to Multi Point(like in the SI models), and run the PR4 ECU that comes in the 90-93 Integra LS, and thats it, electronics wise. You'll still obviously need all the axles and stuff.
I'm sure you'll be satisfied with the 'torque' of the LS motor. (seems funny to say 'torque' with hondas)
Plus with that GSR trans, it will be a very fun little Daily Driver.
Hope that helps with your decision on swapping a B series into the car.
If you wanted to go an even easier route, swap in a D16A6 out of an 88-91 CRX/CIVIC SI. All you'll have to do is convert to Multi Point(MPFI) and use the PM6 ECU out of the SI's. That way you can use your axles, mounts, etc.
|01-03-2007, 08:27 PM||#4|
The real question is- how much money do you want to spend, how much complexity are you willing to put up with, and how much value do you want? Road course type power curve or drag? I assume street drags because of your comment about taking on the high powered V8 guys.
If you want to go budget, throw some coated forged 9.5:1 pistons and rods into a B18B block and bolt on a well chosen (sized) turbo system and you can be making 400whp with good tuning. That's enough to give Vipers a run for their money.
DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums!
Intercrew Auto Salon
|01-04-2007, 08:22 PM||#5|
If your on a budget I would go with an LS for sure. I'm building an all motor LS/VTEC myself(B18B1 w/ GSR head). That's the cool thing about the LS, you can boost it, or you can put a B series VTEC head on it and get the torque from the LS, and still have horsepower like a VTEC motor. Obviously its not as easy as just slapping a GSR or B16 head on a LS block, but I don't want to make this a write up on LS/VTEC so... Honda-Tech as some good LS/VTEC write ups..
If I were you, I'd go with the LS. It is definently worth it, it is one of the easier motors to swap, and you can build a very streetable setup. After you swap it and want more, then you can build it and eat up those V8 boys on the street.
Get it how you live..
|01-04-2007, 09:38 PM||#6|
To be honest bedget really isnt an issue.... however it will be a step by step process.
I continue to read and in doing so am kinda intrigued on some of the things I am reading about the vtec. People say you can feel the difference when it kicks in. Would this be like the feeling you get from the powerband of the YZ80 motocross bikes from years back?
The one thing I do not want to do is buy something that will eventually be replaced. I would rather spend a little more up front and get what I want instead of say getting a D whatever then stepping to an LS then to whatever the next phase may be.
After reading it seems as though my best bet would be a VTEC of the ODB1 nature... and then modify that with whatever then possibly step up to a turbo or super charger later (that in itself is another debate on which to get).
So does the ODB1 VTEC sound about right? If so pick one lol
|01-05-2007, 09:02 AM||#8|
Well doing some more reading this morning I think I am going to go with the:
B16A SiR (JDM)
and decently priced... around 1300-1500 shipped.
Will get me by until I determine Turbo/Supercharger with I believe only a slight wiring mod from dual to multi point.
|01-05-2007, 10:04 AM||#10|
VTEC properly tuned should NOT give you any kick in the pants. You ideally want a smooth transition between the cam profiles so that you have the most power under the curve. You can always set your VTEC crossover so that you have a 20whp jump (mine was before tuning, broke the tires loose every time), but you'll lose speed in favor of the thrill. Just go with a huge turbo and enjoy the power ramping up when the boost hits.
DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums!
Intercrew Auto Salon
|01-05-2007, 10:14 AM||#11|
I would be willing to go inside and swap pistons and rods... however I would prefer to do that (if needed) prior to the installation of the motor. Resleeving... JDM motors are low mileage so what will resleeving actually do? Clean up the cylinder walls? Or could you resleeve to a higher displacement ( ie a b-18).
When dealing with chevy motors a 305 block is the same as a 327 and a 350... just the bore is different... is this the same case as the b-series blocks?
If this is true I could in essence get a b-18 bare block and slap a b-16a head on it correct?
|01-05-2007, 10:26 AM||#12|
Yep, thats called an LS/VTEC, and when properly built, they can make awsome power.(just at/over 200whp!) theres a little more involved than just 'slappin' it up there, but it's not that hard in general.
Type LS/VTEC into the search engines here and on Honda-Tech and get ready.... cause it's a very popular thing to talk about..
|01-05-2007, 12:33 PM||#13|
It seems as though we are getting off topic a bit... and some of these questions should be in a seperate thread under another heading. Doing further reading (as you can see I am sooo busy at work) I can mod the b16 block to a b18 or higher by resleeving etc which I can do over the winter(next year). Seems the 160 hp it provides with a odb0 vtec is more bang for the buck with the option of modifying it later.
|01-05-2007, 01:02 PM||#14|
Well, it's all about what you plan to do later on.
Boost- b18 because it's cheap, bigger liter(more lower-end power), and responds very well to forced induction.
All motor- LS/VTEC
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