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Dark93DX · 05-03-2007, 01:59 PM

I was originally planning on swapping a b18b LS into my EG b/c I figured it was the best bang for my buck, however I've noticed that the B16B has come down in price recently.

I figure a modded b18b/c hatch will prob spank a b16b hatch, but it would be great to have such a powerful platform that is all OEM and 100% reliably engineered from the factory, plus the tranny has an LSD.

Do you think the B16b is overrated or just overpriced?

trappd-in-859 · 05-03-2007, 02:07 PM

I think it is both. Go with a turbo ls and call it a day. Or you could spend a little more and get a b18c1.

Dark93DX · 05-03-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trappd-in-859

I think it is both. Go with a turbo ls and call it a day. Or you could spend a little more and get a b18c1.

Well I want to stay n/a and the b16b is priced not much higher then a b18C1 GSR swap where I am.

How would the b16b compare to a stock b18C1, in the same hatch of course?

trappd-in-859 · 05-03-2007, 04:13 PM

They would be about the same really. CTR has a little more hp, GSR has a little more tq. CTR would win due to shorter gearing and lsd, but it wouldn't be by much.

Have you considered a k20 swap? That is the best engine to get if you wanna stay n/a. Really expensive though.

Dark93DX · 05-03-2007, 04:39 PM

I would love to do a K20 swap, but the price is just way too high for me. I used to have an RSX Type S so I know that engine rocks.

The LSD type R tranny is a huge selling point for me b/c theres nothing I hate more the one wheel drive.

I know the GSR has huge potential for parts & tuning, but what about the B16b...is it pretty much maxed out?

I know people often complain that the 1.6L's (i.e. B16a's) are gutless compared to the 1.8L's so its interesting to know that the B16B and the B18C1 are so close.

trappd-in-859 · 05-03-2007, 05:14 PM

If you want an lsd, there are aftermarket ones available. The b16b is no where near maxed out. You will be able to see 200 whp fairly easy. The bad thing about staying n/a is that it gets very expensive. To get into the 12's you will be spending serious cash. If you want to stay with bolt-ons, you should be seeing high to mid 13's depending on the driver, suspension, and tires.

What are your plans for the car? Do you just want a fun car that you drive everyday? Or a car that shares dd and track duties?

92b16vx · 05-03-2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trappd-in-859

They would be about the same really. CTR has a little more hp, GSR has a little more tq. CTR would win due to shorter gearing and lsd, but it wouldn't be by much.

Have you considered a k20 swap? That is the best engine to get if you wanna stay n/a. Really expensive though.

A B18C1 with a ITR/CTR tranny would rape, of course an ITR swap is just a little more than a CTR swap, and would start out better. I never saw a reason to get a CTR motor other than just to say you have a B16B.

Personally, I think you should take two things into account when doing a swap. One what do you out of the car, and two, what are you going to be doing with it. Seriously, if you are just going to be using it for basic transit, and some fun driving, there's no reason to spend thousands of dollars building a beast. If you are going to be racing it, than yea, spend the cash. A B18B with a B16/ITR tranny would be a load of fun, and not too expensive, or a straight B16A, B18C1 swap. Both of which have a lot of potential.

Dark93DX · 05-03-2007, 05:36 PM

The car is really sole mode of transport so it still has to be reliable, but I still want some that is fun to drive (like the RSX type S I used to have). i know people think VTEC is overrated, but I still love it.

I'm not really into drag racing so 1/4 mile times aren't really all that important to me. 200 whp will be more then enough then I'll prob ever need, but it would be great to have. I'm thinking any mods would just be bolt-ons, tuning and at most maybe aftermarket cams.

most people claim the b16's are torqueless (even more then the d16) compared to the b18C1, but as you said the B16b's transmission is geared better then either.

Looking at the engine specs between the B16's and the B18C1 I dont see much of a difference.

BTW has anybody on Hondaswap done a B16b swap into an EG?

trappd-in-859 · 05-03-2007, 09:28 PM

I'm sure some people have done that swap on here. I know it has been done countless times, esp. in cali. The only thing you would really have to do is obd1-obd2 conversion and wire vtec if you don't have an si. You'd also have to do a brake swap because the ctr axles are 5 lug. If you're just looking to have a quick, reliable, dd; I'd personally just do ls engine, b16a trans, aftermarket lsd, and some bolt ons. Really easy, painless swap that you can get done in a weekend with a couple friends. You'll have plenty of usable power for the street, and for occasional racing. If you really want to have vtec, you can always swap a b16 head on the ls block, but I've heard it's not that reliable.

Dark93DX · 05-03-2007, 09:56 PM

Thanks for all the good info.

That was my original choice to do a b18b with an LSD transmisision. I was looking at using the ITR transmission, but does this mean the axels wont fir my hubs? can I use any b-series axles with an ITR transmission?

BTW...are the b16's really "slow" as some say?

AHHVTEC · 05-03-2007, 09:59 PM

i would get the b16b if i was you

trappd-in-859 · 05-03-2007, 09:59 PM

The are the slowest of the vtec b-series. People say that because of the severe lack of tq the motor has. They do alright for dd applications.

Just looked it up, completly bolt-in swap. Just need to wire for vtec and do an obd conversion. You have to use the type-r axles. This is if you're doing the ctr swap. For the ls with ctr/itr trans, you need type-r axles.

Another good thing about going with an ls engine is what if something happens and you need to replace the engine? It would be a lot cheaper to replace an ls vs. a ctr. If you ever decide to go FI, ls motors are the best application for it.

Dark93DX · 05-04-2007, 01:24 AM

According to what I've read in the reference section, unless I'm mistaken, the B16b and the b16a tranny's have the same gear ratios and an LSD. The B16b makes only 15HP more and has +0.4 higher of a CR.

wouldn't a b16a with CTR cams and a bit of tunning be basically the same set up as a b16b? but for alot cheaper?

If I decide for more disp later on couldn't I just swap in a GSR block under the b16 head?

AHHVTEC · 05-04-2007, 01:29 AM

yes but it wont be as reliable

92b16vx · 05-04-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhvtec

yes but it wont be as reliable

Absolutely nonsense. I've been running CTR cams in my B16A for a few years, perfectly reliable. CRTs are OEM and have a mildly more aggressive profile, nothing even close to making it unreliable.

Dark93DX · 05-04-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92b16vx

Absolutely nonsense. I've been running CTR cams in my B16A for a few years, perfectly reliable. CRTs are OEM and have a mildly more aggressive profile, nothing even close to making it unreliable.

Did you just replace the cams or did you have to change out the the springs/retainers as well? It sounds like there isn't much diff between the b16b and the b16a. BTW how much of a difference did you notice by changing the cams? how do you find your setup, good dd, still aggressive enough for some fun driving now and then?

ahhvtec, were you referring to the block swap or changing cams when you said it wouldn't be as reliable?

AHHVTEC · 05-04-2007, 12:44 PM

no matter what anyone says any time you change any motor from what it is stock, you compromise the reliability

Dark93DX · 05-04-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhvtec

no matter what anyone says any time you change any motor from what it is stock, you compromise the reliability

This is true since the engines have been engineered to stock specs, however I'm only considering using OEM Honda parts so I would think it would still be good for a dd application?

AHHVTEC · 05-04-2007, 01:09 PM

thats true also, it still will be fine, i was just saying.

Dark93DX · 05-04-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhvtec

thats true also, it still will be fine, i was just saying.

No worries

Was that why you suggested the B16b over B16a + CTR cams?

From an earlier post I got the impression:

B16b > B18c1 (stock trim)
since B16a + CTR cams + Tuning (hondata or CTR ECU?) = approx B16b

Then B16a (above) > B18c1 (stock)?

The B18C1 is like $1000 more then a B16a? then wouldn't the B16a + LSD tranny be the best option?

AHHVTEC · 05-04-2007, 01:48 PM

well i like out of the box pefromance the b16b already has the best stuff in it but the b16a with cams and tunning will make the same power, but theres that reliability thing again.to me this is how its goes as far as b series..b16b>b18c>b16a>b20b

Dark93DX · 05-04-2007, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the info, I agree its better to get performance out of the box. I liked the b20 & b18 ideas earlier, but I don't wanna start mixing and matching different engines & trannys right now.

So its really gonna come down to either b16b, b18c1 or b16a and how much I wanna spend.

I want a good dd for now, but dont wanna have my ass handed to me should the odd occasion arrise. My old RSX type S lost to a b16a Ef hatch, ha ha, that was an eye opener. Of course the RSX was a nicer car.

AHHVTEC · 05-04-2007, 02:09 PM

lol i know what you mean but with 3 mods on a rsxs its ass whoopings for all eg b16a lol

Dark93DX · 05-04-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahhvtec

lol i know what you mean but with 3 mods on a rsxs its ass whoopings for all eg b16a lol

Thats True

...too bad I don't have that car anymore, what a great machine.

BTW..just out of curiosity could you use a B16b ECU on a B16a?

AHHVTEC · 05-04-2007, 02:22 PM

well the b16b is obd2 so as long as the b16a was also then yes but it might run a little rich

05-03-2007, 01:59 PM	#1
Dark93DX Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: B.C. Posts: 422 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 10	CTR b16b for my EG I was originally planning on swapping a b18b LS into my EG b/c I figured it was the best bang for my buck, however I've noticed that the B16B has come down in price recently. I figure a modded b18b/c hatch will prob spank a b16b hatch, but it would be great to have such a powerful platform that is all OEM and 100% reliably engineered from the factory, plus the tranny has an LSD. Do you think the B16b is overrated or just overpriced? __________________ K20Z3 EG - Installed, waiting for Kpro LSD w/ 4.764 FD B18A CRX

05-03-2007, 04:39 PM	#5
Dark93DX Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: B.C. Posts: 422 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 10	I would love to do a K20 swap, but the price is just way too high for me. I used to have an RSX Type S so I know that engine rocks. The LSD type R tranny is a huge selling point for me b/c theres nothing I hate more the one wheel drive. I know the GSR has huge potential for parts & tuning, but what about the B16b...is it pretty much maxed out? I know people often complain that the 1.6L's (i.e. B16a's) are gutless compared to the 1.8L's so its interesting to know that the B16B and the B18C1 are so close. __________________ K20Z3 EG - Installed, waiting for Kpro LSD w/ 4.764 FD B18A CRX Last edited by Dark93DX; 05-03-2007 at 04:52 PM.

05-03-2007, 05:36 PM	#8
Dark93DX Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: B.C. Posts: 422 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 10	The car is really sole mode of transport so it still has to be reliable, but I still want some that is fun to drive (like the RSX type S I used to have). i know people think VTEC is overrated, but I still love it. I'm not really into drag racing so 1/4 mile times aren't really all that important to me. 200 whp will be more then enough then I'll prob ever need, but it would be great to have. I'm thinking any mods would just be bolt-ons, tuning and at most maybe aftermarket cams. most people claim the b16's are torqueless (even more then the d16) compared to the b18C1, but as you said the B16b's transmission is geared better then either. Looking at the engine specs between the B16's and the B18C1 I dont see much of a difference. BTW has anybody on Hondaswap done a B16b swap into an EG? __________________ K20Z3 EG - Installed, waiting for Kpro LSD w/ 4.764 FD B18A CRX Last edited by Dark93DX; 05-03-2007 at 06:42 PM.

05-03-2007, 09:56 PM	#10
Dark93DX Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: B.C. Posts: 422 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 10	Thanks for all the good info. That was my original choice to do a b18b with an LSD transmisision. I was looking at using the ITR transmission, but does this mean the axels wont fir my hubs? can I use any b-series axles with an ITR transmission? BTW...are the b16's really "slow" as some say? __________________ K20Z3 EG - Installed, waiting for Kpro LSD w/ 4.764 FD B18A CRX

05-03-2007, 09:59 PM	#12
trappd-in-859 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: burlington, ky Age: 21 Posts: 592 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	The are the slowest of the vtec b-series. People say that because of the severe lack of tq the motor has. They do alright for dd applications. Just looked it up, completly bolt-in swap. Just need to wire for vtec and do an obd conversion. You have to use the type-r axles. This is if you're doing the ctr swap. For the ls with ctr/itr trans, you need type-r axles. Another good thing about going with an ls engine is what if something happens and you need to replace the engine? It would be a lot cheaper to replace an ls vs. a ctr. If you ever decide to go FI, ls motors are the best application for it. Last edited by trappd-in-859; 05-03-2007 at 10:09 PM.


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05-03-2007, 02:07 PM	#2
trappd-in-859 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: burlington, ky Age: 21 Posts: 592 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	I think it is both. Go with a turbo ls and call it a day. Or you could spend a little more and get a b18c1.

05-03-2007, 04:13 PM	#4
trappd-in-859 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: burlington, ky Age: 21 Posts: 592 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	They would be about the same really. CTR has a little more hp, GSR has a little more tq. CTR would win due to shorter gearing and lsd, but it wouldn't be by much. Have you considered a k20 swap? That is the best engine to get if you wanna stay n/a. Really expensive though.

05-03-2007, 05:14 PM	#6
trappd-in-859 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: burlington, ky Age: 21 Posts: 592 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	If you want an lsd, there are aftermarket ones available. The b16b is no where near maxed out. You will be able to see 200 whp fairly easy. The bad thing about staying n/a is that it gets very expensive. To get into the 12's you will be spending serious cash. If you want to stay with bolt-ons, you should be seeing high to mid 13's depending on the driver, suspension, and tires. What are your plans for the car? Do you just want a fun car that you drive everyday? Or a car that shares dd and track duties?

05-03-2007, 09:28 PM	#9
trappd-in-859 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: burlington, ky Age: 21 Posts: 592 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	I'm sure some people have done that swap on here. I know it has been done countless times, esp. in cali. The only thing you would really have to do is obd1-obd2 conversion and wire vtec if you don't have an si. You'd also have to do a brake swap because the ctr axles are 5 lug. If you're just looking to have a quick, reliable, dd; I'd personally just do ls engine, b16a trans, aftermarket lsd, and some bolt ons. Really easy, painless swap that you can get done in a weekend with a couple friends. You'll have plenty of usable power for the street, and for occasional racing. If you really want to have vtec, you can always swap a b16 head on the ls block, but I've heard it's not that reliable.

05-03-2007, 09:59 PM	#11
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 30 Posts: 11,378 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 272	i would get the b16b if i was you

05-04-2007, 01:24 AM	#13
Dark93DX Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: B.C. Posts: 422 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 10	According to what I've read in the reference section, unless I'm mistaken, the B16b and the b16a tranny's have the same gear ratios and an LSD. The B16b makes only 15HP more and has +0.4 higher of a CR. wouldn't a b16a with CTR cams and a bit of tunning be basically the same set up as a b16b? but for alot cheaper? If I decide for more disp later on couldn't I just swap in a GSR block under the b16 head? __________________ K20Z3 EG - Installed, waiting for Kpro LSD w/ 4.764 FD B18A CRX

05-04-2007, 01:29 AM	#14
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 30 Posts: 11,378 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 272	yes but it wont be as reliable

05-04-2007, 12:44 PM	#17
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 30 Posts: 11,378 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 272	no matter what anyone says any time you change any motor from what it is stock, you compromise the reliability

05-04-2007, 01:09 PM	#19
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 30 Posts: 11,378 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 272	thats true also, it still will be fine, i was just saying.

05-04-2007, 01:48 PM	#21
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 30 Posts: 11,378 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 272	well i like out of the box pefromance the b16b already has the best stuff in it but the b16a with cams and tunning will make the same power, but theres that reliability thing again.to me this is how its goes as far as b series..b16b>b18c>b16a>b20b

05-04-2007, 01:59 PM	#22
Dark93DX Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: B.C. Posts: 422 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 10	Thanks for the info, I agree its better to get performance out of the box. I liked the b20 & b18 ideas earlier, but I don't wanna start mixing and matching different engines & trannys right now. So its really gonna come down to either b16b, b18c1 or b16a and how much I wanna spend. I want a good dd for now, but dont wanna have my ass handed to me should the odd occasion arrise. My old RSX type S lost to a b16a Ef hatch, ha ha, that was an eye opener. Of course the RSX was a nicer car. __________________ K20Z3 EG - Installed, waiting for Kpro LSD w/ 4.764 FD B18A CRX

05-04-2007, 02:09 PM	#23
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 30 Posts: 11,378 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 272	lol i know what you mean but with 3 mods on a rsxs its ass whoopings for all eg b16a lol

05-04-2007, 02:22 PM	#25
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 30 Posts: 11,378 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 272	well the b16b is obd2 so as long as the b16a was also then yes but it might run a little rich

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CTR b16b for my EG