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civic_rider · 12-31-2003, 03:39 AM

Dec 30 2003

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK here's the status and what I've learned.

What I've learned;
1. With the EACV totally closed and the motor cold, the cold idle valve lets to much air through, the engine hunts for about 1 minute, until the valve starts to close, then it just runs fast (as it should). This is an easy fix, we just cut down on the amount of airflow through that valve, with a brass gasket, restricting the air flow.

2. The ECU outputs a ground signal to the EACV (steady ground, no pulsing) until well after the cold idle valve has closed. This means you have full bypass of the throttle, resulting in much more air than the engine needs. According to the Honda manual, during warm-up the ECU should be opening the valve to allow for faster cold idling. After the ECU shuts the EACV down, the engine drops to slow idle, (450 RPM). There is no further activation of the EACV. The ECU should (per the manual) actually operate the EACV enough to increase warm idle by 300 RPM, it isn't doing this
I monitored this with an oscilloscope, the control was definitely a hard ground with NO pulses. The valve was fully open, max air bypass, until well after the cold idle valve closed.

3. Using my pulse width modulator tester, that I just built, and driving the EACV, I can change the idle to what ever I want, by controlling the air through the EACV, from full open to full closed. This test indicates that the EACV is definitely operating. Also of note is the noise generated by this solenoid valve oscillating on and off, you can definitely hear the operational action.

4. Still getting the EACV fault code 14

5. The Engine still hunts at about 1500 RPM.

6. O2 sensor output;
a; rev engine to 2000RPM, then drop quickly to idle. O2 output goes from .9 volts to about .3 volts, then creeps back up to .9 volts. (O2 test from Honda manual)
b; at idle (approx 750 RPM), O2 output crosses .5 volt level about 7 times in 10 seconds. Engine does not hunt.
c; at approx 2500 RPM, O2 voltage crosses .5 volt level, over 20 times in 10 seconds. Engine does not hunt.
d; at approx 1500 RPM, engine is hunting, O2 output remains at about .3 volts. When RPM is increased, see "c" above.

7. Throttle position sensor varies between .5 volts and 4.5 volts (per service manual)

8. MAP sensor, Ignition ON, car not running, output is 2.9 volts. Engine running at idle, output is .98 volts (varies with engine RPM)

9. Coolant temperature sensor, hot engine, approx 250 ohms.

10. Dist sensors, TDC,Crank,and Cylinder pos. all have signal outputs, measured with an oscilloscope.

11. Vehicle NOT equipped with a ELD (Electric Load Detector), well at least there is no GRN/RED wire on connector D10 of the ECU

12. Timing set per red mark on crank pulley

13. All sensor measurements take at the ECU.

14. Emptied another can of ether, don't seem to have any more vacuum leaks. In fact I can stall the engine by plugging the EACV port with my finger (hicky test) which also stops air flowing to the slow idle adjust screw.

A couple of times now, the engine has suddenly started working. Higher RPM, and engine didn't hunt, error 14, disappeared. Test drove car and no problem. Over night trouble reappeared.
On another occasion trouble went away, mid testing, the MAP sensor was disconnected, the engine was started, then stopped. When car was restarted, (MAP sensor reattached) the engine jumped to about 2000 RPM, twice over 30 seconds, then settled down to work fine, until after increasing the engine load, by turning the head lights on. The engine then went back to it's failed position.

Next thing to test would be the ECU, I give it a 25 % chance of being the fault. Already had the ECU on my workbench, definitely reset the memory.
Dismantled the ECU and traced out the EACV wiring. Nothing fancy, just a simple MOSFET (Transistor) controlled by a signal from the main CPU chip. Applies a ground to the EACV to energize the solenoid.

Question
Does the ECU (obd1) need to learn the "engine" as would an OBD2 ECU

Any suggestions?

civicious · 12-31-2003, 05:23 AM

your engine is not charlton heston. it does not hunt.

civic_rider · 12-31-2003, 11:14 AM

you know what i mean

it revs from 700-1100 rpm, back and forth like its 'searching' for the correct idel.

Thanks for the 'help'....

civicious · 12-31-2003, 02:12 PM

to re-word what i said earlier:

im not sure what you're asking. if you have a problem with an erratic idle, try replacing your o2 sensor, map sensor, tps, and iacv. if that doesn't fix it...um..i dont know. usually it'll be one of those that's messed up.

sorry for the trouble.

civic_rider · 12-31-2003, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by civicious@Dec 31 2003, 02:12 PM
2. i dont understand what the fuck you're talking about.

well thats apparent.

So why would you take the time to flame me over something you know nothing about?? Is it because your pea-brain can't understand and so out of a rage of jealousy you must show your manliness by anonomously flaming someone who obviously knows more than you?

I was under the impression someone could provide some technical help in my endeavors of swapping my y8 in. I guess I should have looked for a site dedicated to swapping Honda engines...oh wait....maybe they could call it "Hondaswap.com"....oh wait again.....nevermind. I must have the wrong site.

So thanks my friend for making realize how unsupportive its members are. I'll keep to my own site next time.

Hope your car doesn't break before your 17th birthday, cause you'd be lucky if you could change a tire.

CRX-YEM · 01-01-2004, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by civicious@Dec 31 2003, 03:12 PM
i dont know what your'e asking.

i read about half of your post, and:

1. i dont care to read a fuckin' novel

2. i dont understand what the fuck you're talking about.

3. why the hell are you fucking around with the wiring on your ecu?? not a smart thing to do.

4. why would the ecu need to "learn" the engine? or any ecu for that matter...obd2, obd1, or obd0 does not "learn" your engine. you plug it in, it controls engine functions, if something is wired wrong or broken it throws a code and doesn't work right.

5. to "reset the memory" on your ecu, you unplug the negative battery terminal and wait a few minutes.

6. if you're asking why your car idles all fucked up, try replacing the IACV, MAP sensor, and TPS.

why do you have to be so arrogant/ignorant

This Guy/Kid is asking for technical help, if you simply can not answer him or didn't care to read the whole thing then why even respond.

And actually "YES" the ECU after it's been out of the car and then installed again after sometime the volatile memory will have been erased, and when you power it up again it does actually "learn" well in a way it refreshes it volatile memory with information from your cars sensors that it monitors and controls.

you would of offered more help by not saying anything

12-31-2003, 03:39 AM	#1
civic_rider Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	Dec 30 2003 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OK here's the status and what I've learned. What I've learned; 1. With the EACV totally closed and the motor cold, the cold idle valve lets to much air through, the engine hunts for about 1 minute, until the valve starts to close, then it just runs fast (as it should). This is an easy fix, we just cut down on the amount of airflow through that valve, with a brass gasket, restricting the air flow. 2. The ECU outputs a ground signal to the EACV (steady ground, no pulsing) until well after the cold idle valve has closed. This means you have full bypass of the throttle, resulting in much more air than the engine needs. According to the Honda manual, during warm-up the ECU should be opening the valve to allow for faster cold idling. After the ECU shuts the EACV down, the engine drops to slow idle, (450 RPM). There is no further activation of the EACV. The ECU should (per the manual) actually operate the EACV enough to increase warm idle by 300 RPM, it isn't doing this I monitored this with an oscilloscope, the control was definitely a hard ground with NO pulses. The valve was fully open, max air bypass, until well after the cold idle valve closed. 3. Using my pulse width modulator tester, that I just built, and driving the EACV, I can change the idle to what ever I want, by controlling the air through the EACV, from full open to full closed. This test indicates that the EACV is definitely operating. Also of note is the noise generated by this solenoid valve oscillating on and off, you can definitely hear the operational action. 4. Still getting the EACV fault code 14 5. The Engine still hunts at about 1500 RPM. 6. O2 sensor output; a; rev engine to 2000RPM, then drop quickly to idle. O2 output goes from .9 volts to about .3 volts, then creeps back up to .9 volts. (O2 test from Honda manual) b; at idle (approx 750 RPM), O2 output crosses .5 volt level about 7 times in 10 seconds. Engine does not hunt. c; at approx 2500 RPM, O2 voltage crosses .5 volt level, over 20 times in 10 seconds. Engine does not hunt. d; at approx 1500 RPM, engine is hunting, O2 output remains at about .3 volts. When RPM is increased, see "c" above. 7. Throttle position sensor varies between .5 volts and 4.5 volts (per service manual) 8. MAP sensor, Ignition ON, car not running, output is 2.9 volts. Engine running at idle, output is .98 volts (varies with engine RPM) 9. Coolant temperature sensor, hot engine, approx 250 ohms. 10. Dist sensors, TDC,Crank,and Cylinder pos. all have signal outputs, measured with an oscilloscope. 11. Vehicle NOT equipped with a ELD (Electric Load Detector), well at least there is no GRN/RED wire on connector D10 of the ECU 12. Timing set per red mark on crank pulley 13. All sensor measurements take at the ECU. 14. Emptied another can of ether, don't seem to have any more vacuum leaks. In fact I can stall the engine by plugging the EACV port with my finger (hicky test) which also stops air flowing to the slow idle adjust screw. A couple of times now, the engine has suddenly started working. Higher RPM, and engine didn't hunt, error 14, disappeared. Test drove car and no problem. Over night trouble reappeared. On another occasion trouble went away, mid testing, the MAP sensor was disconnected, the engine was started, then stopped. When car was restarted, (MAP sensor reattached) the engine jumped to about 2000 RPM, twice over 30 seconds, then settled down to work fine, until after increasing the engine load, by turning the head lights on. The engine then went back to it's failed position. Next thing to test would be the ECU, I give it a 25 % chance of being the fault. Already had the ECU on my workbench, definitely reset the memory. Dismantled the ECU and traced out the EACV wiring. Nothing fancy, just a simple MOSFET (Transistor) controlled by a signal from the main CPU chip. Applies a ground to the EACV to energize the solenoid. Question Does the ECU (obd1) need to learn the "engine" as would an OBD2 ECU Any suggestions? __________________ <a href=\'http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289468413\' target=\'_blank\'>1992 Civic Si HB, D16Y8, Milano Red, Enkei RP02s 205/40/R16....for now....</a> <img src=\'http://www3.telus.net/public/mcadorin/Civic_banner.jpg\' border=\'0\' alt=\'user posted image\' /> <a href=\'http://www.vancouvercivics.com\' target=\'_blank\'>http://www.vancouvercivics.com</a> <a href=\'http://www.rcmp.ca\' target=\'_blank\'>http://www.rcmp.ca</a>

12-31-2003, 05:23 AM	#2
civicious FüK-VTEC Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Age: 23 Posts: 8,410 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: 07 Nissan Frontier, 90 CRX Si, 06 ZX6R racebike, chopped-out 02 Yamaha V-Star Rep Power: 189	your engine is not charlton heston. it does not hunt. __________________ CMRA #265 http://www.myspace.com/civicious AIM: greyfades

12-31-2003, 11:14 AM	#3
civic_rider Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	you know what i mean it revs from 700-1100 rpm, back and forth like its 'searching' for the correct idel. Thanks for the 'help'.... __________________ <a href=\'http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289468413\' target=\'_blank\'>1992 Civic Si HB, D16Y8, Milano Red, Enkei RP02s 205/40/R16....for now....</a> <img src=\'http://www3.telus.net/public/mcadorin/Civic_banner.jpg\' border=\'0\' alt=\'user posted image\' /> <a href=\'http://www.vancouvercivics.com\' target=\'_blank\'>http://www.vancouvercivics.com</a> <a href=\'http://www.rcmp.ca\' target=\'_blank\'>http://www.rcmp.ca</a>

12-31-2003, 02:12 PM	#4
civicious FüK-VTEC Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Age: 23 Posts: 8,410 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: 07 Nissan Frontier, 90 CRX Si, 06 ZX6R racebike, chopped-out 02 Yamaha V-Star Rep Power: 189	to re-word what i said earlier: im not sure what you're asking. if you have a problem with an erratic idle, try replacing your o2 sensor, map sensor, tps, and iacv. if that doesn't fix it...um..i dont know. usually it'll be one of those that's messed up. sorry for the trouble. __________________ CMRA #265 http://www.myspace.com/civicious AIM: greyfades

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