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KeLeMi821 · 03-28-2004, 09:47 PM

what's the difference between the K24 from the TSX and the K24 from the CRV? besides the fact that the TSX has 200 hp and the CRV has 160 hp... and which would probably be better to swap into one of our civics? i'm not planning on doing this anytime soon it's just for general knowledge and maybe i'll do it in the future when the price for k-series motors drops... also is there really an after market for these engines?

Calesta · 03-29-2004, 02:47 PM

The TSX engine has higher compression and more likely a better head configuration, so you would want to use the TSX's K24 instead of the CRV's. You can swap a K20A2 head on if you want too.

Give the aftermarket some time- the B block had a good 12 years to build an aftermarket. The K isn't going to be nearly as large after only 3 years.

Soichiro-Honda · 04-13-2004, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Mar 29 2004, 02:47 PM
The TSX engine has higher compression and more likely a better head configuration, so you would want to use the TSX's K24 instead of the CRV's. You can swap a K20A2 head on if you want too.

There heads are the same, there VTEC is different.

TSX has throttle by wire system you don't want to use its head or Intake manifold.

CR-V and TSX have the Same Crank, with a real performance head (k20A2).

CR-V would be the choice.

Calesta · 04-14-2004, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soichiro-Honda+Apr 13 2004, 06:40 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soichiro-Hon da @ Apr 13 2004, 06:40 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Calesta@Mar 29 2004, 02:47 PM
The TSX engine has higher compression and more likely a better head configuration, so you would want to use the TSX's K24 instead of the CRV's.* You can swap a K20A2 head on if you want too.

There heads are the same, there VTEC is different.

TSX has throttle by wire system you don't want to use its head or Intake manifold.

CR-V and TSX have the Same Crank, with a real performance head (k20A2).

CR-V would be the choice. [/b][/quote]
The CR-V and the TSX have the same head?

Soichiro-Honda · 04-14-2004, 05:34 PM

US TSX has EGR ports cast into it, and you can't bolt the RSX manifold to it without some modifications. You'd have to use the long runner TSX manifold.
Good thing about TSX it has true VTEC.

CR-V would be the choice.

Calesta · 04-15-2004, 02:47 PM

Ok, that makes sense. It still shouldn't matter if you're choosing to use the entire K20A2 head on top though, right? How close are the TSX / CR-V heads to the RSX-S head?

Soichiro-Honda · 04-15-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Apr 15 2004, 01:47 PM
1. It still shouldn't matter if you're choosing to use the entire K20A2 head on top though, right?

2. How close are the TSX / CR-V heads to the RSX-S head?

1. Yeah your right.

2.There different in headflow numbers, ports are dimensionally the same, but k24 flows less. What I mentioned up there k20A2 head does not have. TSX head flows more than the the CR-V.

Calesta · 04-16-2004, 02:30 PM

1. Ok
2. So no EGR ports cast in and no throttle by wire on the K20A2 head right?

I was under the impression that the TSX short block would produce more compression than the CR-V's. I don't know the compression ratio of each off the top of my head, but I assume that the K24 bottom end off the TSX would still be the prime choice over the CR-V.

Are there any major structural differences between the CR-V and the TSX short blocks? I've read an article by Mike Kojima about how sturdy the TSX block is supposed to be, but I've never seen either K24 torn apart in person.

Soichiro-Honda · 04-16-2004, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Apr 16 2004, 01:30 PM

2. So no EGR ports cast in and no throttle by wire on the K20A2 head right?

I was under the impression that the TSX short block would produce more compression than the CR-V's. I don't know the compression ratio of each off the top of my head, but I assume that the K24 bottom end off the TSX would still be the prime choice over the CR-V.

Are there any major structural differences between the CR-V and the TSX short blocks? I've read an article by Mike Kojima about how sturdy the TSX block is supposed to be, but I've never seen either K24 torn apart in person.

2. Right

3. There blocks are the same only difference is there pistons. Same stroke, and same bore but you know that.

Heres what I uploaded of the CR-V stock internals, but you prob. seen this already. Theres race design all over the motor, and when modded most likey it WILL show more Torque than H.P. or be very close within each other not far apart like older honda engines.
But when using a2 head or (True VTEC), it's best to use the Type-S or R oil pump.

The only thing I would use that comes with the TSX motor is the 6speed which has taller gears better for boost (which has a F.D. gear thats similar in # to the Type R), and the Trans. case is Magnesium something thats not mentioned for the type S or R.

Soichiro-Honda · 04-16-2004, 07:44 PM

Head comparision.

Calesta · 04-16-2004, 09:13 PM

Thanks for posting up pictures!

Wow. That's an interesting setup for the A3 head. It almost looks like you could drop in the A2 valvetrain and just have to deal with VTEC oil plumbing issues- the cam support/journals/whatever look like they're all in the right place. I guess one lobe on the exhaust is easier than running two per cylinder with different followers.

I like the piston design. It looks like they did quite a bit more material removal than on the B series pistons. Less mass = more power.

Slo86GT · 04-19-2004, 04:54 AM

Those exhaust ports are HUUUGE.

Soichiro-Honda · 04-22-2004, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiR Kid@Apr 19 2004, 03:54 AM
Those exhaust ports are HUUUGE.

Gives off a sound unlike any other.

hondp3 · 04-26-2004, 06:58 PM

hi i work for honda as a tech and i can help u. the k24 block is a great start for a hybrid engine . with a a2 head from a rsx type s (here in the states its all weve got)and a crv block you can create quite a bit of hp and torque . also with the low compession ratio (9:6:1) this swap is just begging for unnatural aspiration . there are a few things to work out like engine to hood clearance, the oil pump , the oil pans need to be switched, changing from 5 to 6 speed , ecu flash from hondata , you need a k20a2 water pump . the best thing for this swap is to have one of both engines so there is no problems with part availability.once all of these things are straitened out you can literally drop this thing in any honda that excepts the k sesies engine . if you have any more technical questions feel free to email me . hondp3@hondaswap.net

MikeBergy · 04-26-2004, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hondp3@Apr 26 2004, 03:58 PM
the best thing for this swap is to have one of both engines so there is no problems with part availability

lol, like we all have that kind of money, but in a world where honda motors were inexpensive, I'd be all over that.
So the k20a3's don't have real vtec? It totally looks like if you just swapped the a2 camshafts and rocker assemblies, you'd be kosher.

Frankie P. · 04-26-2004, 11:53 PM

Yes, the A3 doesn't have "true" vtec. I didn't know this when I bought mine, now I wish I bought the Type-S, but I love the shifter in the SI. You can swap the entire vavletrain from a A2 to the A3, it fits perfect but you still end up about 10 hp or so under a stock A2.

MikeBergy · 04-27-2004, 01:25 PM

10 hp less than the rsx-s? Is that with the type-s ecu and everything? Does the type-s head just flow better, or is there a compression difference b/n the si and thew type-s?

D See 2 · 04-27-2004, 02:13 PM

very interesting post... keep the good info coming.

Frankie P. · 04-27-2004, 04:59 PM

I believe there is a .5 compression ratio, the SI might be higher, I am not too sure. I am not too sure if you will lose 10 hp but I heard of a guy who did it, and dyno'd it and ended up with 10 WHP less than a stock type-S, but a lot of different dyno's give a lot of different readings with the new I-vtec, I have seen some dyno's losing only 5-10 WHP from the flywheel, others lose up to 30 so I can't be too sure. The new K-series is a very strange engine, I don't know much on the B-series, and am always learning new stuff on the K. My favorite thing about the K series is how responsive it is to bolt-on's. I hear domestics fan's say well I get 20 WHP with just an intake, and I can say well so can the Type-S. I LOVE IT!!!

Here is a good link for some inconsistency on the dyno's, very frustrating as you can tell.

Superchargers.

Frankie P. · 04-27-2004, 05:42 PM

Speaking of good bolt-on power here is a great comparison test.

Intake tests.

turboB20hatch · 04-27-2004, 06:53 PM

damn the aem intake really does make 20hp on the rsx typeS

Frankie P. · 04-27-2004, 07:23 PM

The DC does a pretty good job too, 19.5 I believe, with slightly more torque, even the ram intakes pull decent numbers, injen made 8WHP, pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

KeLeMi821 · 05-11-2004, 01:46 AM

i found some info that you guys might find helpful and really sums things up

it's in sport compact magazine i believe but someone posted the info also on [url=http://www.7thgencivic.com/[/URL]

Quote:

Posted by Cambo, I'm sure SOMEWHERE this will come in handy.....

K24 Engine Locations and Names:
1. Accord K24A4
2. TSX K24A2
3. Element K24A4
4. CRV K24A1

The Heads:
1. The A4 head: 2 cams lobes on the intake, 1 on the exhaust. EGR Portng
2. The A2 head: 3 cam lobes on intake and exhaust cams. EGR Porting
3. The A1 head: 2 cam lobes on intake, 1 on exhaust.

Compression Ratios:
K24A4: 9.7:1
K24A2: 10.5:1
K24A1: 9.6:1

Horsepower and Torque Ratings:
K24A4: 160 hp and 161 ft. lbs tq
K24A2: 200 hp and 166 ft. lbs tq
K24A1: 160 hp and 162 ft. lbs tq

Differences:
The TSX K24 uses a throttle-by-wire system. The engine is also basically a K24 block mated up with the K-series A2 head (think RSX Type-S K20A2 head). The A2 head is the one you want if you're thinking i-VTEC in the traditional power-maker VTEC system, while the other heads' i-VTEC systems are meant more for emissions and gas mileage.

The K24 block is 19.7mm bigger (height wise) than the K20 block. The K24A2 (TSX) has stronger rods and unique crank. It also sports a 7100 rpm redline, while the other K24 engines have a 6500(?) rpm redline. The K24A2 ECU also isn't compatiable with any other engine for some reason. Thinking about Hondata ECU Reflash? Not for the K24A2 ECU then. Because of the Throttle-by-wire system, Hondata won't be releasing any Reflashes anytime soon (last i heard).

Which Engine Should I Get?
Well, thats tough to say. The K24A1 and K24A4 will be more common than the K24A2. Because they'll be more common, they'll probably be cheaper as well. You can always do a head swap with the K24A4 and K24A1 with a K20A2 Head. You'll have a "poor man's" K24A2, but it'll essentially be the same. The K24A4 and K24A1 are more boost friendly because of their lower compression ratios, but the K24A2 can support light boost. I'd say it'd come down to one of three things or a combination.

1. Do you plan to boost or stay N/A? If boost, go with K24A1 or K24A4.
2. Do you want to be more unique/spend more money? Go with the K24A2.
3. Tranny: 6 speed or 5 speed? 6 speed, then get the K24A2. 5 speed, K24A1 or K24A4.

found here: [url=http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141122&p erpage=15&pagenumber=4[/URL]

K2e2vin · 05-11-2004, 02:17 AM

in one of the issues of honda tuning(may 2003) the guy that designs honda motors said the tsx's k24 is the best motor they have built. it says the tsx's k24 uses high tensile steel in connecting rod bolts, more aggressive VTEC exhaust cam, increase compression, a second burn system, drive-by-wire, and the transmission case and bell housing is made of magnesium.

Bl6CRX · 05-11-2004, 02:52 AM

god damn K series, just when I feel like I really know the ins and outs of B seires...oh well gotta keep up, good thread

03-29-2004, 02:47 PM	#2
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,525 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	The TSX engine has higher compression and more likely a better head configuration, so you would want to use the TSX's K24 instead of the CRV's. You can swap a K20A2 head on if you want too. Give the aftermarket some time- the B block had a good 12 years to build an aftermarket. The K isn't going to be nearly as large after only 3 years. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

04-14-2004, 05:34 PM	#5
Soichiro-Honda Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Altamonte Springs, Florida Posts: 107 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	US TSX has EGR ports cast into it, and you can't bolt the RSX manifold to it without some modifications. You'd have to use the long runner TSX manifold. Good thing about TSX it has true VTEC. CR-V would be the choice. __________________ Its time for me and the Easy 4 to reach our <u>Unlimited Potential.</u>

04-15-2004, 02:47 PM	#6
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,525 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	Ok, that makes sense. It still shouldn't matter if you're choosing to use the entire K20A2 head on top though, right? How close are the TSX / CR-V heads to the RSX-S head? __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

04-16-2004, 02:30 PM	#8
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,525 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	1. Ok 2. So no EGR ports cast in and no throttle by wire on the K20A2 head right? I was under the impression that the TSX short block would produce more compression than the CR-V's. I don't know the compression ratio of each off the top of my head, but I assume that the K24 bottom end off the TSX would still be the prime choice over the CR-V. Are there any major structural differences between the CR-V and the TSX short blocks? I've read an article by Mike Kojima about how sturdy the TSX block is supposed to be, but I've never seen either K24 torn apart in person. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

04-16-2004, 07:44 PM	#10
Soichiro-Honda Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Altamonte Springs, Florida Posts: 107 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	Head comparision. __________________ Its time for me and the Easy 4 to reach our <u>Unlimited Potential.</u>


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03-28-2004, 09:47 PM	#1
KeLeMi821 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	what's the difference between the K24 from the TSX and the K24 from the CRV? besides the fact that the TSX has 200 hp and the CRV has 160 hp... and which would probably be better to swap into one of our civics? i'm not planning on doing this anytime soon it's just for general knowledge and maybe i'll do it in the future when the price for k-series motors drops... also is there really an after market for these engines?

04-16-2004, 09:13 PM	#11
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,525 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	Thanks for posting up pictures! Wow. That's an interesting setup for the A3 head. It almost looks like you could drop in the A2 valvetrain and just have to deal with VTEC oil plumbing issues- the cam support/journals/whatever look like they're all in the right place. I guess one lobe on the exhaust is easier than running two per cylinder with different followers. I like the piston design. It looks like they did quite a bit more material removal than on the B series pistons. Less mass = more power. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

04-19-2004, 04:54 AM	#12
Slo86GT Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Memphis - Hellhole of the South Posts: 3,367 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 48	Those exhaust ports are HUUUGE. __________________ - Jody - 2004 Colorado ZQ8 - I5, M5, Regular cab - 209.9whp/210.7wtq 1986 Mustang GT - V8, M5 - 213.0whp/279.2wtq

04-26-2004, 06:58 PM	#14
hondp3 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	hi i work for honda as a tech and i can help u. the k24 block is a great start for a hybrid engine . with a a2 head from a rsx type s (here in the states its all weve got)and a crv block you can create quite a bit of hp and torque . also with the low compession ratio (9:6:1) this swap is just begging for unnatural aspiration . there are a few things to work out like engine to hood clearance, the oil pump , the oil pans need to be switched, changing from 5 to 6 speed , ecu flash from hondata , you need a k20a2 water pump . the best thing for this swap is to have one of both engines so there is no problems with part availability.once all of these things are straitened out you can literally drop this thing in any honda that excepts the k sesies engine . if you have any more technical questions feel free to email me . hondp3@hondaswap.net

04-26-2004, 11:53 PM	#16
Frankie P. Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Austin, TX. Posts: 1,630 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 29	Yes, the A3 doesn't have "true" vtec. I didn't know this when I bought mine, now I wish I bought the Type-S, but I love the shifter in the SI. You can swap the entire vavletrain from a A2 to the A3, it fits perfect but you still end up about 10 hp or so under a stock A2.

04-27-2004, 02:13 PM	#18
D See 2 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Baltimore, MD Age: 25 Posts: 2,401 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: '92 Civic CX Rep Power: 39	very interesting post... keep the good info coming. __________________ Garage: 1992 CX Hatch > Current Money Pit Grave: R.I.P. 1995 Integra GSR R.I.P. 1990 DX Hatch R.I.P. 1990 CRX Si

04-27-2004, 04:59 PM	#19
Frankie P. Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Austin, TX. Posts: 1,630 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 29	I believe there is a .5 compression ratio, the SI might be higher, I am not too sure. I am not too sure if you will lose 10 hp but I heard of a guy who did it, and dyno'd it and ended up with 10 WHP less than a stock type-S, but a lot of different dyno's give a lot of different readings with the new I-vtec, I have seen some dyno's losing only 5-10 WHP from the flywheel, others lose up to 30 so I can't be too sure. The new K-series is a very strange engine, I don't know much on the B-series, and am always learning new stuff on the K. My favorite thing about the K series is how responsive it is to bolt-on's. I hear domestics fan's say well I get 20 WHP with just an intake, and I can say well so can the Type-S. I LOVE IT!!! Here is a good link for some inconsistency on the dyno's, very frustrating as you can tell. Superchargers.

04-27-2004, 05:42 PM	#20
Frankie P. Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Austin, TX. Posts: 1,630 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 29	Speaking of good bolt-on power here is a great comparison test. Intake tests.

04-27-2004, 06:53 PM	#21
turboB20hatch Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: pacific nw Posts: 355 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	damn the aem intake really does make 20hp on the rsx typeS

04-27-2004, 07:23 PM	#22
Frankie P. Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Austin, TX. Posts: 1,630 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 29	The DC does a pretty good job too, 19.5 I believe, with slightly more torque, even the ram intakes pull decent numbers, injen made 8WHP, pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

05-11-2004, 02:17 AM	#24
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,358 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	in one of the issues of honda tuning(may 2003) the guy that designs honda motors said the tsx's k24 is the best motor they have built. it says the tsx's k24 uses high tensile steel in connecting rod bolts, more aggressive VTEC exhaust cam, increase compression, a second burn system, drive-by-wire, and the transmission case and bell housing is made of magnesium. __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

05-11-2004, 02:52 AM	#25
Bl6CRX Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UCLA Posts: 1,546 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 28	god damn K series, just when I feel like I really know the ins and outs of B seires...oh well gotta keep up, good thread

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K24 from TSX vs K24 from CRV