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hazzardboy95 · 03-20-2008, 03:17 PM

I have a p30 ecu in my ls integra which gives me the capability to rev higher but on stock cams i think my power kinda drops off at 6900 or so but the little higher rev gets me into the next gear with a better rpm, how far do you think i can go safetly. 7500 or less, whats your opinion.

hazzardboy95 · 03-20-2008, 03:17 PM

stock red line is 7200 on the ls ecu.

hazzardboy95 · 03-20-2008, 04:46 PM

thanks.

philyphreak2127 · 03-20-2008, 08:15 PM

man I wouldn't even rev it up to redline. after 6900 you aren't making any more power anyways so if you shift at 6900 yeah you will be at a lower rpm but you will be back in the powerband for the next gear. So you will be still gaining power. Even if you are racing someone on a mile long course, if it is a drag race chances are the extra 300 rpms versus being in the powerband will hurt your times rather than help them. so shift at 6900. and just punch it.

hazzardboy95 · 03-21-2008, 09:02 AM

good advice thanks.

hazzardboy95 · 03-21-2008, 09:04 AM

Ialso just got a light weight flywheel and six puck cluth which is way overkill but it should rev faster now so i shouldnt hve to wind it out that far for the next gear cause i will be able to get through the powerband alot faster.

philyphreak2127 · 03-21-2008, 03:23 PM

exactly man. Man I miss my teggy!!

YBLEGAL · 03-21-2008, 04:25 PM

yeah it will rev faster but remember the reduced mass of the flywheel somewhat also lessens the shortcut of a powershift, using the heavier flywheel's mass to kick the car forward a little more.

but i love my lightweight flywheel, it's more fun. and straight lines arn't my thing.

BrutalB83 · 03-21-2008, 06:53 PM

So wait...you're running a P30 ECU with an LS engine? Is that correct?

EDIT: I read your other thread (the one that got locked) and got my answer.

Why the hell are you running a B16 ECU on an LS?

Is your LS a B16?

No.

Does it have VTEC?

No.

Is it built to rev as high as a B16?

No.

So why the hell would it benefit from a B16 ECU?

It wouldn't (in case you were wondering).

Stop listening to your buddy, he's an idiot. The only reason to use a different ECU is that you plan on having it chipped and tuned to run your specific engine setup. Otherwise, there's no point to it. It won't give you any performance gains, and you're just going to end up with constant CELs...

92civicb18b1 · 03-21-2008, 07:28 PM

I was gonna ask why also, but I read in the other thread and I believe he said he thought it ran better with the P30 so it wasn't worth an argument.

BrutalB83 · 03-21-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92civicb18b1

I was gonna ask why also, but I read in the other thread and I believe he said he thought it ran better with the P30 so it wasn't worth an argument.

Meh...I'm always up for a good argument...

hazzardboy95 · 03-24-2008, 07:32 AM

Have you ever done it before, a p30 in an ls. Well i have and you can feel the difference so unless you have done this before there is no argument you have no first hand proof to prove me wrong.

92civicb18b1 · 03-24-2008, 08:49 AM

Whatever you say, I'm not getting into an argument. There is no need to be using the wrong ECU.

hazzardboy95 · 03-24-2008, 08:52 AM

Alright then moving on, im looking into launch control right now, what exactly would i need. i looked on hondata and it said I can use s200 but i need a modidfied stock ecu, and then i looked at msd but its confusing. It think i need this soft touch thing but im not sure and then im also not sure if i need the other products that plug into that. What are your suggestions for launch control.

YBLEGAL · 03-24-2008, 02:30 PM

hondata s300 ftw.

your wasting hardware features by using a P30. those are rare. sell it and buy a P28 or something else and chip it. you realize the difference you feel is due to the fuel maps and ignition settings being ment for a B16. it's probably running lean with too much ignition advance.

get the hondata, get a proper tune for your motor, and it'll all be good. it also has launch control. i have it. it's lame. unless your lazy as fuck or have no skill launching, it's just not that necessary that i would spend lots of money to impliment it.

LS_VTEC · 03-24-2008, 05:13 PM

You can run a p30 on an LS. It will run a little bit on the fat side though and you should get a cel from it. I personally wouldn't do this, just because I know better.

As far as spinning it past its oem redline, its pointless. No power and risk of damaging the engine.

BrutalB83 · 03-24-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazzardboy95

Have you ever done it before, a p30 in an ls. Well i have and you can feel the difference so unless you have done this before there is no argument you have no first hand proof to prove me wrong.

You're an idiot. Period.

The "difference" you feel is your car running lean with the timing too far advanced, because your ECU is trying to run your 1.8 liter engine like it's a high-revving 1.6 liter. It's similar to those crap E-Bay "performance" chips that mess with your fuel and timing. Yeah, you might feel a bit of a difference, but at the same time, you could very well be fucking up your motor.

Honda ECUs aren't magical, you can't just throw one from a higher-performance engine into your car and expect it to perform like that engine. The correct solution is to use the computer that came with your engine and augment it with a piggyback device, or chip an ECU and have it custom-tuned to your engine setup.

But whatever man, I'm just an idiot. You obviously know what you're doing. You keep on revving that P30-equipped LS past it's redline and see what happens...

I'm checking out of this thread...it makes my head hurt...

LS_VTEC · 03-24-2008, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrutalB83

You're an idiot. Period.

The "difference" you feel is your car running lean with the timing too far advanced, because your ECU is trying to run your 1.8 liter engine like it's a high-revving 1.6 liter. It's similar to those crap E-Bay "performance" chips that mess with your fuel and timing. Yeah, you might feel a bit of a difference, but at the same time, you could very well be fucking up your motor.

Honda ECUs aren't magical, you can't just throw one from a higher-performance engine into your car and expect it to perform like that engine. The correct solution is to use the computer that came with your engine and augment it with a piggyback device, or chip an ECU and have it custom-tuned to your engine setup.

But whatever man, I'm just an idiot. You obviously know what you're doing. You keep on revving that P30-equipped LS past it's redline and see what happens...

I'm checking out of this thread...it makes my head hurt...

As far as it running lean on the p30, it would actually run slightly richer. The timing would also be affected, not sure +/-. I can only assume there will be more timing due to the vtec camshafts they control.

Piggybacks =

Not a fan. ECU tuning prefferred.

BrutalB83 · 03-24-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS_VTEC

As far as it running lean on the p30, it would actually run slightly richer. The timing would also be affected, not sure +/-. I can only assume there will be more timing due to the vtec camshafts they control.

Piggybacks =

Not a fan. ECU tuning prefferred.

You are very right. I'm sorry, I was thinking rich and typed lean by mistake, my bad...

And I'm with you on the piggyback thing as well. I was just trying to lay out the "correct" tuning options as opposed to just throwing a different ECU at a motor and hoping it improves performance...

YBLEGAL · 03-25-2008, 12:36 AM

yeah, honda is not a domestic V8 that by tuning you somehow discover 20 horses.... lol, i love watching that happen.

precision engineering is the key term

philyphreak2127 · 03-25-2008, 02:36 AM

Here is an idea.....Practice....Why don't you just go to a desserted road and practice. If you hear your tires squealing then you are revving too high. Oh and another thing about the ecu....swap the head to a b16 then you can stick with your p30 plus you have the benefits of vtec! damn what a concept.

hazzardboy95 · 03-25-2008, 09:51 PM

You guys are correct it does run richer but it dont rev the balls off of it. Thats what the question was about, if it was safe to go past the stock redline even if it was a little bit.

YBLEGAL · 03-25-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazzardboy95

You guys are correct it does run richer but it dont rev the balls off of it. Thats what the question was about, if it was safe to go past the stock redline even if it was a little bit.

none of us said richer. your still incorrect. your running LEAN. you have a higher air to gas ratio. there is more air than there should be. not enough gas. this is worse than running rich! take the time to read correctly.

Stock internals. Stock redline. Stock shift point. Typically 400rpm less than stated stock redline (not the start of the red area on your guage, which sometimes isnt right on).

BrutalB83 · 03-26-2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YBLEGAL

none of us said richer. your still incorrect. your running LEAN. you have a higher air to gas ratio. there is more air than there should be. not enough gas. this is worse than running rich! take the time to read correctly.

Stock internals. Stock redline. Stock shift point. Typically 400rpm less than stated stock redline (not the start of the red area on your guage, which sometimes isnt right on).

Actually some of us did say richer...

Are you sure on that? I figured it would be injecting more fuel on a B16 ECU, but I guess I could be wrong though, please correct me if I am...either way, the point is that running that ECU isn't a healthy way to boost performance on an LS engine. Like I said, it's akin to one of those E-Bay hack performance chips that you splice in. It's just messing with the air/fuel ratios and the timing...

YBLEGAL · 03-26-2008, 12:59 AM

aha! i didnt see you corrected yourself.

i would assume it would run leaner, since your running a 1.6 liter map on a 1.8 liter motor. more volume, same amount of gas. also, seems to me B16's run with more advance than the GSR i've looked at before. that's where i drew my logic

03-20-2008, 03:17 PM	#1
hazzardboy95 Hon-daaaa Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pasadena, Md Posts: 671 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 TEGGY Rep Power: 13	red line I have a p30 ecu in my ls integra which gives me the capability to rev higher but on stock cams i think my power kinda drops off at 6900 or so but the little higher rev gets me into the next gear with a better rpm, how far do you think i can go safetly. 7500 or less, whats your opinion. __________________ When my parents asked me what i wanted to be when i grew up you know what I said The garage.... 2005 bmw x5 2007 ford roush mustang 1987 jeep wrangler 1993 honda civic hatch 1998 isuzu amigo 1995 ACURA INTEGRA (\_ /) ( 0.o) ( > <)World domination will be ours....

03-20-2008, 03:17 PM	#2
hazzardboy95 Hon-daaaa Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pasadena, Md Posts: 671 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 TEGGY Rep Power: 13	stock red line is 7200 on the ls ecu. __________________ When my parents asked me what i wanted to be when i grew up you know what I said The garage.... 2005 bmw x5 2007 ford roush mustang 1987 jeep wrangler 1993 honda civic hatch 1998 isuzu amigo 1995 ACURA INTEGRA (\_ /) ( 0.o) ( > <)World domination will be ours....

03-20-2008, 04:46 PM	#3
hazzardboy95 Hon-daaaa Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pasadena, Md Posts: 671 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 TEGGY Rep Power: 13	thanks. __________________ When my parents asked me what i wanted to be when i grew up you know what I said The garage.... 2005 bmw x5 2007 ford roush mustang 1987 jeep wrangler 1993 honda civic hatch 1998 isuzu amigo 1995 ACURA INTEGRA (\_ /) ( 0.o) ( > <)World domination will be ours....

03-20-2008, 08:15 PM	#4
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	man I wouldn't even rev it up to redline. after 6900 you aren't making any more power anyways so if you shift at 6900 yeah you will be at a lower rpm but you will be back in the powerband for the next gear. So you will be still gaining power. Even if you are racing someone on a mile long course, if it is a drag race chances are the extra 300 rpms versus being in the powerband will hurt your times rather than help them. so shift at 6900. and just punch it. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-21-2008, 09:02 AM	#5
hazzardboy95 Hon-daaaa Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pasadena, Md Posts: 671 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 TEGGY Rep Power: 13	good advice thanks. __________________ When my parents asked me what i wanted to be when i grew up you know what I said The garage.... 2005 bmw x5 2007 ford roush mustang 1987 jeep wrangler 1993 honda civic hatch 1998 isuzu amigo 1995 ACURA INTEGRA (\_ /) ( 0.o) ( > <)World domination will be ours....


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03-21-2008, 09:04 AM	#6
hazzardboy95 Hon-daaaa Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pasadena, Md Posts: 671 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 TEGGY Rep Power: 13	Ialso just got a light weight flywheel and six puck cluth which is way overkill but it should rev faster now so i shouldnt hve to wind it out that far for the next gear cause i will be able to get through the powerband alot faster. __________________ When my parents asked me what i wanted to be when i grew up you know what I said The garage.... 2005 bmw x5 2007 ford roush mustang 1987 jeep wrangler 1993 honda civic hatch 1998 isuzu amigo 1995 ACURA INTEGRA (\_ /) ( 0.o) ( > <)World domination will be ours....

03-21-2008, 03:23 PM	#7
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	exactly man. Man I miss my teggy!! __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-21-2008, 04:25 PM	#8
YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 2,746 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2000 EJ8 w/ SiR-II Rep Power: 72	yeah it will rev faster but remember the reduced mass of the flywheel somewhat also lessens the shortcut of a powershift, using the heavier flywheel's mass to kick the car forward a little more. but i love my lightweight flywheel, it's more fun. and straight lines arn't my thing.

03-21-2008, 06:53 PM	#9
BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Rochester Hills, MI Age: 26 Posts: 7,830 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 97 Integra LS Coupe Rep Power: 191	So wait...you're running a P30 ECU with an LS engine? Is that correct? EDIT: I read your other thread (the one that got locked) and got my answer. Why the hell are you running a B16 ECU on an LS? Is your LS a B16? No. Does it have VTEC? No. Is it built to rev as high as a B16? No. So why the hell would it benefit from a B16 ECU? It wouldn't (in case you were wondering). Stop listening to your buddy, he's an idiot. The only reason to use a different ECU is that you plan on having it chipped and tuned to run your specific engine setup. Otherwise, there's no point to it. It won't give you any performance gains, and you're just going to end up with constant CELs... __________________ If you find something I say helpful, please send some rep my way! Also, DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums so we can all benefit from the answers. I will NOT respond to tech-related PMs... PSN Network ID: BrutalB83 Last edited by BrutalB83; 03-21-2008 at 07:13 PM.

03-21-2008, 07:28 PM	#10
92civicb18b1 The Trisexual Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The asshole of the USA, New Jersey Age: 22 Posts: 8,874 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2007 Civic, 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Rep Power: 122	I was gonna ask why also, but I read in the other thread and I believe he said he thought it ran better with the P30 so it wasn't worth an argument. __________________ DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH QUESTIONS!!! Current Rides 1992 Chevy S-10 Ext. Cab Previous 1992 Civic DX Hatch = 1994 B18B1 Turbo Rebuilt Garrett .60/.48 T3, log style mani and DIY downpipe, DSM 440's, kteller IC piping, JRC Intercooler, Home Depot style oil lines, HKS BOV, Crome Tuned, 253whp 1994 Civic VX Hatch, 1992 b18a1 swap 1993 Civic CX Hatch, 2000 B18b1

03-24-2008, 07:32 AM	#12
hazzardboy95 Hon-daaaa Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pasadena, Md Posts: 671 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 TEGGY Rep Power: 13	Have you ever done it before, a p30 in an ls. Well i have and you can feel the difference so unless you have done this before there is no argument you have no first hand proof to prove me wrong. __________________ When my parents asked me what i wanted to be when i grew up you know what I said The garage.... 2005 bmw x5 2007 ford roush mustang 1987 jeep wrangler 1993 honda civic hatch 1998 isuzu amigo 1995 ACURA INTEGRA (\_ /) ( 0.o) ( > <)World domination will be ours....

03-24-2008, 08:49 AM	#13
92civicb18b1 The Trisexual Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The asshole of the USA, New Jersey Age: 22 Posts: 8,874 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2007 Civic, 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Rep Power: 122	Whatever you say, I'm not getting into an argument. There is no need to be using the wrong ECU. __________________ DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH QUESTIONS!!! Current Rides 1992 Chevy S-10 Ext. Cab Previous 1992 Civic DX Hatch = 1994 B18B1 Turbo Rebuilt Garrett .60/.48 T3, log style mani and DIY downpipe, DSM 440's, kteller IC piping, JRC Intercooler, Home Depot style oil lines, HKS BOV, Crome Tuned, 253whp 1994 Civic VX Hatch, 1992 b18a1 swap 1993 Civic CX Hatch, 2000 B18b1

03-24-2008, 08:52 AM	#14
hazzardboy95 Hon-daaaa Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pasadena, Md Posts: 671 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 TEGGY Rep Power: 13	Alright then moving on, im looking into launch control right now, what exactly would i need. i looked on hondata and it said I can use s200 but i need a modidfied stock ecu, and then i looked at msd but its confusing. It think i need this soft touch thing but im not sure and then im also not sure if i need the other products that plug into that. What are your suggestions for launch control. __________________ When my parents asked me what i wanted to be when i grew up you know what I said The garage.... 2005 bmw x5 2007 ford roush mustang 1987 jeep wrangler 1993 honda civic hatch 1998 isuzu amigo 1995 ACURA INTEGRA (\_ /) ( 0.o) ( > <)World domination will be ours....

03-24-2008, 02:30 PM	#15
YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 2,746 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2000 EJ8 w/ SiR-II Rep Power: 72	hondata s300 ftw. your wasting hardware features by using a P30. those are rare. sell it and buy a P28 or something else and chip it. you realize the difference you feel is due to the fuel maps and ignition settings being ment for a B16. it's probably running lean with too much ignition advance. get the hondata, get a proper tune for your motor, and it'll all be good. it also has launch control. i have it. it's lame. unless your lazy as fuck or have no skill launching, it's just not that necessary that i would spend lots of money to impliment it.

03-24-2008, 05:13 PM	#16
LS_VTEC you get the BRAKE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 2,617 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 99 YZF-R6 Rep Power: 43	You can run a p30 on an LS. It will run a little bit on the fat side though and you should get a cel from it. I personally wouldn't do this, just because I know better. As far as spinning it past its oem redline, its pointless. No power and risk of damaging the engine. __________________ eg hatch (jdm b16) sold 1999 Yamaha YZF R6 (modded) http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...ow-pics-102486 sold

03-25-2008, 12:36 AM	#20
YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 2,746 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2000 EJ8 w/ SiR-II Rep Power: 72	yeah, honda is not a domestic V8 that by tuning you somehow discover 20 horses.... lol, i love watching that happen. precision engineering is the key term

03-25-2008, 02:36 AM	#21
philyphreak2127 The name's Sam Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: morrison, co Age: 20 Posts: 1,510 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 98 civic dx sedan, 80 trans am Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 26	Here is an idea.....Practice....Why don't you just go to a desserted road and practice. If you hear your tires squealing then you are revving too high. Oh and another thing about the ecu....swap the head to a b16 then you can stick with your p30 plus you have the benefits of vtec! damn what a concept. __________________ Parts for sale: http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trad...-parts-115446/ Build Threads: Civic: http://hondaswap.com/civic-del-sol-eg-ek/d16y8-n-build-112401/5.html Trans Am: http://hondaswap.com/other-vehicle-discussions/1980-trans-am-build-thread-oh-yeah-its-official-149941/#post1054318

03-25-2008, 09:51 PM	#22
hazzardboy95 Hon-daaaa Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pasadena, Md Posts: 671 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 95 TEGGY Rep Power: 13	You guys are correct it does run richer but it dont rev the balls off of it. Thats what the question was about, if it was safe to go past the stock redline even if it was a little bit. __________________ When my parents asked me what i wanted to be when i grew up you know what I said The garage.... 2005 bmw x5 2007 ford roush mustang 1987 jeep wrangler 1993 honda civic hatch 1998 isuzu amigo 1995 ACURA INTEGRA (\_ /) ( 0.o) ( > <)World domination will be ours....

03-26-2008, 12:59 AM	#25
YBLEGAL Regular Member w/ Cheese Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 2,746 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2000 EJ8 w/ SiR-II Rep Power: 72	aha! i didnt see you corrected yourself. i would assume it would run leaner, since your running a 1.6 liter map on a 1.8 liter motor. more volume, same amount of gas. also, seems to me B16's run with more advance than the GSR i've looked at before. that's where i drew my logic

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