pissedoffsol

this time a 14 year old!!

BBC NEWS | Americas | 'Student' in Ohio school rampage

get_nick

yep, just saw this.

school shooting #247298437293

5 hurt in school shooting - Crime & Punishment - MSNBC.com

Battle Pope

Between media excitability and parental inaction, things are only getting worse.

get_nick

i'm buying my kids one of those bullet proof backpacks.

there is no way to solve this unless you want your kids to go to private school.

needless to say, this is an alternative school. full of hoodlums. i'm surprised they didn't shoot back.

chestercheeto48

This is just plain ignorant.

There is no evidence that a private school is any safer than a public school the fact of the matter is that it can happen anywhere. Take that school shooting in PA for example. They were Amish and were still targeted. The only way to combat this is to stop reporting it in the news and sensationalizing it.

Just because a school is an alternative school does not instantly make them hoodlums, washouts, druggies, lazy or any other catagory. It sounds like this school was technology based as opposed to a traditional school at least according to its own homepage and mission statement.

dacheat

i'm seriously pissed at whoever enables these kids by allowing them access to their guns. i don't want big brother gov't coming and taking my guns away because of irresponsible gun owners. diff. story if the kids are getting guns black market...but my guess is they aren't. they're getting them from home, or from friends' homes.

opinion: i think whoever's gun is used in a crime like this should be tried as an accessory to the crime. i'd prefer that over losing my right to bear arms. damn skippy i'd lock my guns up good then....

steam....

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Airjockie

I wonder what the outcome would have been if he didn't have a gun......


ban the guns....only way to stop this shit....

dacheat

wow a) i'm psychic because b) i knew someone would post that...

here we go: gun bans don't keep guns out of the hands of criminals. gun bans only empower criminals. gun bans turn the rest of us into sheep waiting for wolves.

Airjockie

a ban on guns is the best thing...in 20 years...there will be no more gun powder usable...and then we can finally send kids to school without the fear of the now everyday school shootings.


it worked in Japan...and look at the students coming out from Japanese schools...they will use their brains and make money.

dacheat

oy.

better start banning baseball bats, knives, fists, and everything else. don't get me wrong, i'm all about living in peace. but i'm not about getting there as a victim.

Airjockie

normal people can run away from baseball bats, knives, and fists. Or defend themselves from them.



and sure...lets give all teachers a gun....

the first student killed by a teacher will be Armageddon for public and private schools. Only people that will make money from it will be the lawyers.

civicious

It's my understanding that in Japan, parents are still allowed to beat their children.

If parents would fucking control their kids, there wouldn't be any need for a gun ban. A gun ban would be the worst idea possible...like dacheat said, it would leave every citizen a sheep waiting for the wolves. If the kids were properly disciplined from the get-go, they'd know right from wrong and wouldn't be running around like fucking hoodlums thinking the answer to their problems is to shoot someone.

Child Protective Services, along with the modern 'hip-hop' culture, has successfully ruined society.

The key to restoring society is to ban shitty 'rap' music and beat your children.

nootrac22

stop the problem at the source, require a license to breed, but then there would be no heirs to the brittany spears empire

Drake

Dont blame the guns. A gun is a tool. Just like a knife, a pen, a bat. It is ignorant to blame a gun. Blame the crazy fuck holding it. Blame the person that did not lock said firearm up. That kid had problems and it is to bad that no one around him gave a shit enough to help him.

goldgreen90ef

outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns....i live bout 20mins. from where this happened, and if the kid didnt have a gun, he would have"strangled and stabbed everyone" and that a quote he made last week to other students..... its only gonna get worse...

Z6CRX

I like tazers.. they make people convulse on the floor uncontrollably. They hurt like hell, well enough to make a point, and kinda funny to watch people that get shocked.

K2e2vin

I agree that it starts with discipline, or lack of.

E_SolSi

[grandmas boy]i fucking love this woman!!![/grandmas boy]


100%

E_SolSi

im too damn tired to fight this fight tonight

so until tomorrow i am going to leave it at this

if you want proof that banning guns will not decrease gun crime and will actually INCREASE gun crimes due to the general law abiding population not being able to defend themselves you dont need to look any further than our nations capital, Washington DC

guns are flat out illegal there... you can not get a permit to carry... yet for some odd reason they consistantly have one ofthe higest rates of gun crimes in the country

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phyregod

There will be new classes starting in schools country wide next semester..

"Urban combat"
"Combat Survival" 101 & 102

get_nick

i meant to say "home school" instead of "private school" but regardless, the school shooting was by a 38 year old male that hated the amish. so that doesn't really count.

and yes, alternatives school is because they are hoodlums, washouts, druggies, lazy, pregnant, dysfunctional, or just can't interact with society. the fact that this was an alternative school doesn't have a factor. but alternative schools are for the people who cannot operate in regular schools.

chestercheeto48

I am sorry your original post seemed to imply that you think/thought that private schools were safer and that every student in an alternative school is a hoodlum. Which is why I called it an ignorant statement.

My point is/was that a shooting can happen at any school regardless of age, race, or gender and the matter of the fact is that unless the school is on total lockdown you will always have a chance of a shooting in that school - public, private, or otherwise.

Secondly I am not sure why the designation of an alternative school always conjurs up images of druggies, lazy people or students that "can't hack it" in the regular school system. I am a public high school teacher and I will be the first to admit that the traditional school model does not work for everyone - Ed. Psych. 101 teaches you that the first week. That by no means gives anyone the right to label these kids in anyway shape or form.

The school where this happened was a business oriented school that used technology as a vehicle to help students achieve in the classroom. From what I have read the school was credited with a 94% graduation rate where the rest of the school district has a 55% graduation rate.

Another example would be any of the "sports" related high schools that are set up around the country. I have a student attending one out east because he is in the alpine skiing Olympic program.

What about any of the Polytechnic schools that are around? They are all by general definition an alternative school as they do not follow a traditional model.

Are these kids all dropout druggie losers/low achievers?

Please do not take this as an attack on you or you opinions I am just trying to have a discussion about this and to show that sometimes a stereotype is wrong as in the case here with "alternative schools."

get_nick

ok, just so i have an understanding, can you explain something to me?

why would a student need to attend an alternative school?

In my eyes, these are students that for some reason are incapable of learning or interacting in a traditional sense of education. they are a minority of a minority and for some reason classified as special needs. I am an intelligent person and could expound on this for a long period of time. I was aware of the needs and application of the alternative schools available in my district when I was in high school, so i'm speaking from what I know, and I admit i don't know everything.

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chestercheeto48

Ok I will try my best to explain this the best from both what I have learned and what I have in terms of experience.

The need for alternative schools is due to the fact that each student is unique in terms of the way they learn. You are correct for a vast majority of students the traditional model of school suits them just fine. They go to class everyday for four years and at the end of that four years they receive their diploma. There is however a group of learners that do not or cannot utilize this model of school whether it is due to phisical, mental or other factors.

In its most basic sense an alternative school is any school that does not follow the traditional model. There are a wide variety of these in the US today. I gave a few examples of them before. There are academies for sports, music, the arts and even technology and science. Julliard would be a great example of this. It allows students to focus on the arts along with focusing on their history and english. You can't get that in a traditional school model.

Going back to my student that is attending a ski academy out east. His daily schedule will consist of working with tutors for completing my schools graduation reqirements, along with taking coursework there, along with having blocks of time during the day to practice and take advantage of the weather. His main link will be email and a laptop. Aside from his skills in downhill skiiing he is no different than anyother kid in terms of learning capability. He would not be able to exist and train in a traditional school model.

Next I have a buddy who has a daughter that is totally blind. He is sending her to a school that specializes in children with vision disabilities. The school is totally normal in terms of curriculum but also infuses cane training and brail with their every day activities. Likewise his daugter is "normal" in terms of her abilities except she cannot see. Actually I would be able to go out on a limb and say she has above average intelligence. Once again would not be able to exist in a traditional school model.

You mentioned a phrase before - "special needs" - that I think gets really misused by people outside of education. I honestly believe that there are some people both parents and students alike that abuse and mislabel themselves all the time. I would love to get rid of this term all together but there ARE certain students who benifit from special education. LD, EBD, CD kids are in our schools and have every right to be there by law and no one can deny that they need special services to co exist with mainstream kids.

Another thing to think about is the fact that home schooling, charter schools, online schools, GED programs, and any of the other programs out there are all by defintion alternative schools. You cannot tell me that all of the students in these programs are prime examples of the labels you used before.

From the sounds of it the district you went to had a seperate school where they sent students that needed more attention, a "safer environment", or better services than what could be offered at you individual high school. I honestly believe that this is a great idea. Why wouldn't you group this portion of a high school population together to better serve them? I saves on money for the district by centralizing it, gives the students more access to people trained to teach them and it allows for a better chance at success. Most of theses types of schools have strict admission requirements for enrollment usually requiring testing and an experts referal. We don't look at a student from a Julliard type school in a negative light do we? It's the same concept

If we did not have these schools I am willing to bet we would have alot more of these incidents and drop out rates would be higher than they already are. To label these kids in a negative light is both dangerous and adding to the problem. My district is currently looking at starting one of these so that we can better serve our students. If the school districts can see these as a positive why can't the rest of us.

I am not sure how well I answered your question but I hope that if you have any more you feel free to ask. Further more I would maybe suggest taking some time out of your schedule to maybe look into these types of schools in your area and maybe volunteer there. I bet it would be very rewarding or at least educational as to what may be going on in those schools.

Here is a good link to a report on Alternative Education in America:

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/411..._education.pdf

DarkHand

Agreed on the gun control, but the last thing we need right now is the loss of more constitutional rights. Banning guns is the exact opposite of the real solution.

It's ironic how a nation that prides itself on the right to bear arms is so uneducated and terrified of them. (Being terrified of things in general seems to be more american than anything else these days, but that's for another thread.) Take Switzerland... They have only a small army, and rely on militia for national defense. Almost all of their able-bodied men keep full military assault rifles in their homes, and are fully trained in their use. For those, they have strict amounts of ammunition that are tracked by the bullet to help prevent criminal use, but handguns aren't so tightly regulated (they try, but there are large loopholes where people can easily obtain unregistered ammo). Despite all this, their handgun murder rate is almost 4 times lower than ours, and that's even when you account for the population difference. A quick Google found a 1992 survey: The US had 13,429 handgun murders with a population of 254,521,000. That's 5.28 murders per 100,000 people. Switzerland had 97 handgun murders with 6,828,023 people, for a rate of 1.42 per 100,000.

Why? Guns are ingrained in Swiss society; they know how to use them, they respect them and treat them as what they are: tools. More effort needs to be put forth in this country to move us toward that same concept. Not fear and banning of guns, but an understanding and respect for guns. Instead of taking them away, if you put them in the right hands they can cancel out their own inherent negatives. The Founders knew this.

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