Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

Slammed90Lude · 04-20-2004, 09:11 PM

yeah so, I'm working on my engineering project right now and I just realized we have to give a materials and machining cost summary- I'm not looking for exact answers or even anything very close, but can anyone give me a rough idea of what it would cost to get a block made to my specs from scratch and a piston machined from a block of metal- thanks for any help or links guy

tab · 04-20-2004, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slammed90Lude@Apr 20 2004, 08:11 PM
yeah so, I'm working on my engineering project right now and I just realized we have to give a materials and machining cost summary- I'm not looking for exact answers or even anything very close, but can anyone give me a rough idea of what it would cost to get a block made to my specs from scratch and a piston machined from a block of metal- thanks for any help or links guy

I would probably depend on size, material, workmanhship, wages, etc.

That's a pretty broad request. Does this have to be completely from scratch? Or are you going to utilize smaller parts from existing motors? I would think the block would be the hardest part. Maybe ImportBuilders would know.

$$$$$$

I do know a machine shop owner, whom I could ask for an educated guess, but I'm sure it would still be way off, and completely dependent on whether or not the engine had to last past the dyno.

Slammed90Lude · 04-20-2004, 09:39 PM

i'm going to use existing rods, but other than that, the block and pistons will have to be machined or cast from scratch- I'm only talking about an inline 4 cylinder block (forget head right now) but it's the piston design that is unique, but i can't say what it is right now, because I might be going someplace with it- but just assume a four cylinder block with a 2.0l displacement- thanks

Calesta · 04-21-2004, 02:22 AM

Good luck- there are so many variables with saying you want to machine/cast a block from scratch...

You have to worry about all the little design bits like water and oil passages, finishing, trial/error on the machine shop's part for trying to match your paper design, blah blah blah- maybe you could give DART a call and see what they could do for a custom block based on a certain bore/stroke combination. They make custom blocks, and could probably give you a rough estimate that would be a hell of a lot closer than asking any general machine shop.

**Loco Honkey** · 04-21-2004, 06:20 AM

A few thoughts come to mind without reading your post...

1) Why are you asking US this? Go ask an engine builder who knows.

2) There's probably a reason why people don't just go out and "scratch building" a block. I have this weird theory about car stuff- if you haven't heard about it being done at least three times successfully, there's probably a reason.

GSRCRXsi · 04-21-2004, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Apr 21 2004, 02:22 AM
Good luck- there are so many variables with saying you want to machine/cast a block from scratch...

You have to worry about all the little design bits like water and oil passages, finishing, trial/error on the machine shop's part for trying to match your paper design, blah blah blah- maybe you could give DART a call and see what they could do for a custom block based on a certain bore/stroke combination. They make custom blocks, and could probably give you a rough estimate that would be a hell of a lot closer than asking any general machine shop.

i agree, give a block builder a call. but i think they will laugh at you when you tell them the design

Slammed90Lude · 04-21-2004, 10:58 AM

yeah me too, that's why I came on here to ask- I know the project I'm working on isn't exactly a serious engineering project, more of a, draw a pretty picture in autocad and talk about it- But oh well, i guess i'll just make some numbers up, it's not like my group could give a shit about it anyway

thanks anyway guys

CRX-YEM · 04-21-2004, 11:09 AM

what's the piston design, hell send me hte acad file of the piston you've designed. and I could have the machine shop next door take a look at it and give you a rough figure.

machining from a solid piece of alum. will be expensive as it will most likely need to be done on a cnc, probably as expensive as forging, casting is cheaper.

to get just 4 pistons done, I'd take a wild guess at $200-300 a piston, as it's such a small quantity.

Celerity · 04-21-2004, 11:12 AM

A friend of mine did it in 1992, with a V8. No different specs, but a custom cast because he couldn't find a GM 327 block.

$8000.

-> Steve

Slammed90Lude · 04-21-2004, 12:01 PM

ok, this is good, at least i have some numbers to base my prices on, i didn't even have a base price to start with

handlebarsfsr · 04-21-2004, 02:32 PM

after you build this custom block, w hat are you gonna use for a head.. you'll have to either find something that fits, or custom make that, and custom making all the little internals is gonna be a bitch

asmallsol · 04-21-2004, 04:51 PM

try asking Payn Technologys. They created the Dart block.

Are you talking about just making an existing design, or create one from scratch. If it is from scratch, millions after thousands of man hours of engineering, R&D, then just manufactoring costs.

GSRCRXsi · 04-22-2004, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by handlebarsfsr@Apr 21 2004, 02:32 PM
after you build this custom block, w hat are you gonna use for a head.. you'll have to either find something that fits, or custom make that, and custom making all the little internals is gonna be a bitch

do you read? he said he's doing this for a project. its not a real plan.

Slammed90Lude · 04-22-2004, 12:23 AM

handlebarsfsr · 04-22-2004, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GSRCRXsi+Apr 21 2004, 11:00 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GSRCRXsi @ Apr 21 2004, 11:00 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-handlebarsfsr@Apr 21 2004, 02:32 PM
after you build this custom block, w hat are you gonna use for a head.. you'll have to either find something that fits, or custom make that, and custom making all the little internals is gonna be a bitch

do you read? he said he's doing this for a project. its not a real plan. [/b][/quote]
i did read, it just seems a bit odd to me to put in all that work to make a complete shortblock and then dont do anythign with a head so it wont run. to me if your going to put the money and effort into building a motor the least i would shoot for it something that can complete combustion.

Slammed90Lude · 04-22-2004, 12:46 AM

i think you're missing the point that i am not building this now, nor will I ever- it's just for a design project, and i only needed some rough estimates

Moxie · 06-10-2004, 12:38 PM

Dart actually doesn't manufacture "custom" blocks, at least not one at a time. We manufacture in volume, so we don't have the capacity to make a one of a kind block. To do that, you would need a shop that specializes in prototyping and short-run production. It would not be a cast block. It would be fully CNC machined out of a single block of aluminum. Probably $8-10,000. To produce blocks in volume as we do, development and tooling will run $1.5-2 million by the time the first block gets shipped out the door.

If your pistons are a simply a variation based on a Honda piston, than piston companies will have a baseline from which to work. Maybe $600-800 a set. If your piston is completely new, with no precedent, I would imagine that figure would at least double.

Greg Wold
Dart Machinery, Ltd.

Calesta · 06-10-2004, 05:20 PM

Thanks for the input Greg! It's good to see you sign up and participate in our forum!

I was more using you guys as a reference point to see what kind of costs might be associated with a custom block- there's no real way to tell how much it would cost to machine one from scratch, so it's a best guess anyway- at least until you have some geometry and material type specified.

Moxie · 06-10-2004, 06:10 PM

Thanks for the welcome. Glad I could lend some input. B)

You can check out www.cnblocks.com for some examples of a custom block CNC machined from aluminum billet. They make V8 blocks, but you'll get an idea.

If you are ever interested in custom pistons, I would take a look at Diamond Racing Pistons, www.diamondracing.net. Their site shows primarily domestic applications, however, they can make custom pistons for just about anything. Their work is top notch.

Calesta · 06-10-2004, 11:17 PM

No problem. I'm just glad that we have more high profile vendors posting on the site. It's a good thing.

I doubt that this guy still needs the information now, but it's good that you came out to tell it. I'll check out those links- I like looking at cool stuff.

04-21-2004, 02:22 AM	#4
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,895 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	Good luck- there are so many variables with saying you want to machine/cast a block from scratch... You have to worry about all the little design bits like water and oil passages, finishing, trial/error on the machine shop's part for trying to match your paper design, blah blah blah- maybe you could give DART a call and see what they could do for a custom block based on a certain bore/stroke combination. They make custom blocks, and could probably give you a rough estimate that would be a hell of a lot closer than asking any general machine shop. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

04-21-2004, 11:09 AM	#8
CRX-YEM Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Wallingford, CT Age: 31 Posts: 4,171 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 91 CRX Rep Power: 59	what's the piston design, hell send me hte acad file of the piston you've designed. and I could have the machine shop next door take a look at it and give you a rough figure. machining from a solid piece of alum. will be expensive as it will most likely need to be done on a cnc, probably as expensive as forging, casting is cheaper. to get just 4 pistons done, I'd take a wild guess at $200-300 a piston, as it's such a small quantity. __________________ Dennis Please don't PM/Email/IM me for technical support. Make a Post!!! 91 CRX DX, 03 Civic EX "There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who get binary and those who don't." "Of all my imaginary friends I don't think there was one I didn't end up having to kill"

04-21-2004, 04:51 PM	#12
asmallsol Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Houghton/Livonia Michigan Age: 22 Posts: 8,093 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 93 del Sol Gas sipper Rep Power: 95	try asking Payn Technologys. They created the Dart block. Are you talking about just making an existing design, or create one from scratch. If it is from scratch, millions after thousands of man hours of engineering, R&D, then just manufactoring costs. __________________ Collin Material Science and Engineering Michigan Technological University

06-10-2004, 12:38 PM	#17
Moxie Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	Dart actually doesn't manufacture "custom" blocks, at least not one at a time. We manufacture in volume, so we don't have the capacity to make a one of a kind block. To do that, you would need a shop that specializes in prototyping and short-run production. It would not be a cast block. It would be fully CNC machined out of a single block of aluminum. Probably $8-10,000. To produce blocks in volume as we do, development and tooling will run $1.5-2 million by the time the first block gets shipped out the door. If your pistons are a simply a variation based on a Honda piston, than piston companies will have a baseline from which to work. Maybe $600-800 a set. If your piston is completely new, with no precedent, I would imagine that figure would at least double. Greg Wold Dart Machinery, Ltd. __________________ <a href=\'http://www.dartheads.com\' target=\'_blank\'>Dart Machinery</a>

06-10-2004, 05:20 PM	#18
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,895 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	Thanks for the input Greg! It's good to see you sign up and participate in our forum! I was more using you guys as a reference point to see what kind of costs might be associated with a custom block- there's no real way to tell how much it would cost to machine one from scratch, so it's a best guess anyway- at least until you have some geometry and material type specified. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688


Welcome, Guest! Please Register or Login: User Name Password Members have access to more features, better search, and see fewer ads! It's free, what are you waiting for?

04-20-2004, 09:11 PM	#1
Slammed90Lude Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: milford, PA Age: 23 Posts: 3,749 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 49	yeah so, I'm working on my engineering project right now and I just realized we have to give a materials and machining cost summary- I'm not looking for exact answers or even anything very close, but can anyone give me a rough idea of what it would cost to get a block made to my specs from scratch and a piston machined from a block of metal- thanks for any help or links guy

04-20-2004, 09:39 PM	#3
Slammed90Lude Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: milford, PA Age: 23 Posts: 3,749 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 49	i'm going to use existing rods, but other than that, the block and pistons will have to be machined or cast from scratch- I'm only talking about an inline 4 cylinder block (forget head right now) but it's the piston design that is unique, but i can't say what it is right now, because I might be going someplace with it- but just assume a four cylinder block with a 2.0l displacement- thanks

04-21-2004, 06:20 AM	#5
Loco Honkey Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,657 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	A few thoughts come to mind without reading your post... 1) Why are you asking US this? Go ask an engine builder who knows. 2) There's probably a reason why people don't just go out and "scratch building" a block. I have this weird theory about car stuff- if you haven't heard about it being done at least three times successfully, there's probably a reason.

04-21-2004, 10:58 AM	#7
Slammed90Lude Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: milford, PA Age: 23 Posts: 3,749 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 49	yeah me too, that's why I came on here to ask- I know the project I'm working on isn't exactly a serious engineering project, more of a, draw a pretty picture in autocad and talk about it- But oh well, i guess i'll just make some numbers up, it's not like my group could give a shit about it anyway thanks anyway guys

04-21-2004, 12:01 PM	#10
Slammed90Lude Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: milford, PA Age: 23 Posts: 3,749 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 49	ok, this is good, at least i have some numbers to base my prices on, i didn't even have a base price to start with

04-21-2004, 02:32 PM	#11
handlebarsfsr Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 353 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 14	after you build this custom block, w hat are you gonna use for a head.. you'll have to either find something that fits, or custom make that, and custom making all the little internals is gonna be a bitch

04-22-2004, 12:23 AM	#14
Slammed90Lude Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: milford, PA Age: 23 Posts: 3,749 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 49

04-22-2004, 12:46 AM	#16
Slammed90Lude Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: milford, PA Age: 23 Posts: 3,749 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 49	i think you're missing the point that i am not building this now, nor will I ever- it's just for a design project, and i only needed some rough estimates

06-10-2004, 06:10 PM	#19
Moxie Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	Thanks for the welcome. Glad I could lend some input. B) You can check out www.cnblocks.com for some examples of a custom block CNC machined from aluminum billet. They make V8 blocks, but you'll get an idea. If you are ever interested in custom pistons, I would take a look at Diamond Racing Pistons, www.diamondracing.net. Their site shows primarily domestic applications, however, they can make custom pistons for just about anything. Their work is top notch. __________________ <a href=\'http://www.dartheads.com\' target=\'_blank\'>Dart Machinery</a>

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
ls block with pr3 piston question????	jpangeles	Engine Building	11	07-06-2004 04:10 PM
ITR stroked short block with deckplate, 86mm bore	acydphryck	Parts: For Sale/Trade/Wanted	9	02-11-2004 03:06 PM
B18A1 Can I add VTEC?	psychochicken	HYBRID -> ED-EF / DA	9	01-19-2004 10:31 PM
How to Compute the Compression Ratio of a motor	pissedoffsol	General Tech Articles	0	01-12-2004 01:41 AM
LS-VTEC/CR- VTEC Info	pissedoffsol	General Tech Articles	1	11-10-2002 04:19 AM

06-10-2004, 11:17 PM	#20
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,895 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	No problem. I'm just glad that we have more high profile vendors posting on the site. It's a good thing. I doubt that this guy still needs the information now, but it's good that you came out to tell it. I'll check out those links- I like looking at cool stuff. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

cost of making a block and piston