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This is a discussion on E vs. Emissions in the Members' Lounge forum
i would say you're wasting so much money on gas driving with a CEL, it would be cheaper just to change it, but i know you never drive the car anyway...
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|05-17-2010, 02:01 PM||#28|
|07-10-2011, 01:47 PM||#31|
I like it. I used the Acetone trick to get the old D16A6 past emissions last year in June 2010. I knew it was on it's last leg and was right. Finally got it to pass with a new OEM type cat (other one was burned totally out) and some cam timing tweaking as well as Injector cleaner and a quantity of Acetone in the fuel tank before the run on the emissions dyno.
Put a fully rebuilt DOHC ZC in it, just got it running and on the road July 4 this year.
I've ran methanol alcohol in many applications over the years including as a cutter to nitromethane in model engines and our old Briggs and Stratton powered mini-bikes many years ago.
You guys basically answered the only question I would have - how much alcohol will the ECU/Fuel delivery system tolerate to not be so lean it won't run? I know you could run straight methanol in one for a day or tankful and not hurt hardware at all. And it runs great - love the smell.
When I get to emissions this year, if I have issues, there is a 5 gallon can of methanol alcohol in the closet along with race gas and a couple of gallons of nitromethane. Have racing karts and also run RC cars, planes and boats hence the nitro.
Any idea on the actual ethanol to gasoline ration the ECU/Fuel system will tolerate and still run? That's the question - how much alcohol will the car run on? I would be surprised if it would run rich enough to tolerate 50/50 alcohol/gasoline blend.
What you have effectively done is lean down the engine with the addition of a cleaner burning fuel - good idea.
EDIT: Ok, I looked the first post over and found the bottom line. About 25% if it's setup rich to begin with and upwards of 50% it's a matter of easing into it with repeaded tests. Thanks - good info!
QUOTED FROM OP's FIRST POST
i guess i should say, Denatured Alcohol does not fix any of the actual reasons your car is failing emissions... and whether it will help you depends on why you are failing... and you should still look into getting your car running properly and clean to protect the environment, and for the children dammit!!!
but if you are failing because you are running rich, i can comfortably say Denatured Alcohol can safely be used to get your car though the sniffer test for emissions
how much you need to use depends on a few things:
how badly you are failing... the worse your numbers are the more alcohol you will need to run
how rich your car is running, and how high a percentage of alcohol are you going to try to run... alcohol needs to run a lot richer than gasoline in order to run well... running too high an alcohol mix can cause a lean misfire if you are not running enough fuel
whether or not your car is running ok or not (ie: if your car is just a piece of shit and barely runs i dont think alcohol will fix you)
all of the pages i found with people talking about tossing 1/2 a qt or a full qt into 10 gallons and passing, they must not have been failing by much at all... they probably could have passed by just driving around and heating up their cat (if they would have failed at all)
the 1-2 qts to 1-3 gallons will probably get most normal decent running unmodified cars through
if you are running pig ass rich though, you are going to need to run a LOT of alcohol...
my recommendation... run your car almost empty and pour in a gallon of denatured alcohol, then drive that off till its almost empty and pour in another gallon...
that should have you on just about straight alcohol... drive around for about 15 minutes and go to the testing station... if you dont pass with that, im not sure you can be helped (if your state has limits for how low your numbers can be you cant run straight alcohol... it burns wayyyy to clean... you will have to find your own mix ratios)
****TRY AT YOUR OWN RISK****
neither hondaswap, its owners, any of its staff or myself are responsible for your actions or the consequences of your actions...
if you are going to dump industrial solvents into your fuel tank you are doing so on your own
Read through neonmike's #2 post. Excellent! I like the way you think - 100% ethanol. We could get into some grand trouble together! Getting mine ready for the emissions and state inspection next weekend.
I'll drive it in for the test low on fuel - any issues, drive it home and pour the mother load to it.
Last edited by Dual-500; 07-10-2011 at 02:15 PM.
|07-10-2011, 05:36 PM||#33|
Will do - I'm hoping I don't have to delve into my bag of tricks and the sucker will pass first time. Have a brand new cat for it - used only once for last year's check.
DOHC ZC motor has 100 miles on it now. Stock with the exception the compression was bumped up to 10:1. Stock cams, and P29 map in the P06 ECU.
Motor probably has enough miles on it to run, should have ~200 by next weekend. No smoke, oil level not moving. No leaks anywhere. Just working on the idle - haven't got to it yet. Checking fuel pressure today (hopefully) - my gauge only goes to 10 psi so, I"m looking for something with a higher range.
I'll post the emissions dyno results.
|07-12-2011, 05:13 AM||#35|
Explain this to me.
Say you have a car that wont pass the sniffer test. Say its a 94 honda civic.
The car comes stock with 1 cat. What if i went to a muffler shop and got an exhaust with 3 cats? Wouldnt it pass then?
Im sure it would run like total bs, but i could just swap the exhaust out when I got home.
|07-12-2011, 12:28 PM||#39|
if you are failing because its just a dirty motor, then pass it with alcohol and call it a day...
no sense spending several hundred dollars putting together a multiple cat setup that honestly wouldnt likely work anyway...
the cats that are farther down the line will not heat up enough to work properly, so they will just collect unburnt fuel and shit that made it past the other cats and just pool it there... you will probably end up testing dirtier than before
vs - alcohol...
you spend about $20-30 on denatured alcohol (or far less on E85 if it is available)... run your tank down low... dump in the alcohol... drive around to get things heated up... get tested... walk out with an amazingly clean emissions report... go fill up like normal... and dont worry about a thing until it comes time to test again
passing with alcahol is cheap, easy, and works... what more could you want (other than no emissions testing in the first place)
|07-12-2011, 12:54 PM||#40|
|07-12-2011, 01:02 PM||#41|
|07-14-2011, 08:20 PM||#42|
doing this once i get the car re-wired. i failed on my last emissions test for the track car. (still have to drive to the track, so it has to stay registered) its weird, i got tested last year, with a cat, PASS no problem. go again this year, changed absolutely nothing, and i FAIL. not sure if it was the 105 degree heat that day, or old gas, not sure. but im going to run a tank of gas through it, let it get low, dump some alcohol in, and retest to pass.
|07-15-2011, 09:24 AM||#44|
What mods do you have on the track car?
|11-01-2011, 10:54 AM||#46|
curious if CA will catch it like B16racer said.... i've got to go smog the Yota today.. it passed w/ flying colors 2 years ago and i've only put about 8k miles on it since.. wondering if i even need it.. i suppose i'll just try without.. if it fails, i'll try it
|12-12-2011, 07:51 PM||#47|
Well boys, I did the swap and haven't worked the TPS issue and got a ticket a couple of weeks ago for expired inspection sticker. Going to take a couple of weeks off work over the holidays and will fix it then and check MAP, cleanup wiring around ECU, etc. Also, going to weld a bracket on the back of the header just ahead of the collector.
Meanwhile, no reason for any more tickets. So, figuring it wouldn't pass anyway, and in anticipation of having to pass inspection, I put the cat back on and took it to the test station for a run on the emissions dyno. As expected, it failed the first attempt due to emissions. I'm thinking the engine is running open loop due to the TPS fault and CEL light being "on". The guy at the test station said on that old a car, the CEL didin't matter. Everything else was good except for emissions.
Knowing the engine is fresh and cat is new, I opted for some "injector cleaner" to see if that would get it to pass to give me my sticker now and a week or two of time (without any more $203 tickets) before I work the TPS CEL issue while on vacation. So, I picked up 2 gallons of Injector Cleaner at Home Depot and put it in on a near empty tank of gas.
Drove it straight back for a retest. It smelled like a Pro Mod car was up on the dyno. Was running 65-75% alcohol and a bit lean. Bogged a little when he sped it up on the dyno for the high speed test module.
New inspection sticker in the window - problem solved.
Injector Cleaner Used:
Failed Emissions test from last Friday:
Today's passed emissions test after use of Injector Cleaner:
Cleaned it right on up! Guess the injectors were just a little dirty.
Last edited by Dual-500; 12-12-2011 at 07:55 PM.
|alcohol, denatured alcohol, emissions, ethanol|
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