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pissedoffsol · 04-06-2006, 11:59 AM

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?se..._number=5#honda

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
Honda XGA
A new type of sports car.

The internal name given to the S2000's replacement is XGA. We had thought all along that the XGA would be a 4-door sports car showcasing Honda's SH-AWD system used in the RL and its advanced hybrid technology (remember the Dual Note concept car?). Well, now we're hearing the company is leaning toward producing a coupe based on the RL platform, but equipping it with either the V-8 or V-10 for the NSX replacement.

Honda will surely equip the luxury coupe with its SH-AWD system, creating a car that would match up with the likes of the Nissan GT-R. If the XGA and the next NSX make it to production as we foresee, it would mean that all of Honda's sporty cars would be awd. Could Honda be trying to redefine the classic sports-car formula, and change the way we think about sports cars and awd? It's a definite possibility because Honda has expressed that much confidence in the capabilities of its SH-AWD.

The XGA will be front engine and look quite different from the RL, and it may go head-to-head with the GT-R. A hint of its styling may be seen in the Sports4 Concept shown at the Tokyo Motor Show.

While it's still too early to tell when this car will be available, we're sure that Honda is hard at work to reestablish its image as one of the world's leading sports-car makers. It shouldn't be long after the end of the S2000's run that we'll start seeing exciting new stuff from this technology-driven company.

[/b][/quote]

ripperbone · 04-06-2006, 12:06 PM

wow awd honda, not bad, and the nsx replacement suppose to have around 450 to 500 hp, nice cant wait to see what it looks like

reckedracing · 04-06-2006, 12:11 PM

http://www.s2ki.com/Home/content/view/252/6/

another source...

sad end to the s2k though...
thats unfortunate

AWD... i wonder if this means boost in the future?

pills_PMD · 04-06-2006, 12:26 PM

i'd like to see that IS500 lexus!

Battle Pope · 04-06-2006, 12:31 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pills_PMD @ Apr 6 2006, 08:26 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
i'd like to see that IS500 lexus!
[/b][/quote]

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nod.gif[/img]

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drool.gif[/img]

Black Widow g2 · 04-06-2006, 03:48 PM

i looked at a few of them. sounds pretty f'in sweet on all those new imports. the subie looks odd though.

micah · 04-06-2006, 03:53 PM

i just posted a little while ago that honda anounced a v10 coming as soon as 08.
v10 awd sport coupe [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif[/img]

preludebuddy · 04-06-2006, 07:01 PM

aren't they making a turbo'd SUV? the rdx or something like that?

vanillakilla · 04-07-2006, 03:53 AM

yes they are. honda v10 [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/surprise.gif[/img]

Black Widow g2 · 04-07-2006, 05:43 AM

is it supposed to be like the mdx?

reckedracing · 04-07-2006, 10:57 AM

AWD v10 swap FTW motha fucka

pissedoffsol · 04-07-2006, 10:59 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Widow g2 @ Apr 7 2006, 05:43 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
is it supposed to be like the mdx?
[/b][/quote]

no, its not a sport ute. its higher than the s2k, and below the former nsx.

totalburnout · 04-07-2006, 12:03 PM

What in the hell are they talking about redefining sports cars?

Mitsu already did it years ago with the DSM AWD.
Mitsu now has the Evo
Subaru has the WRX, WRX STi, and Impreza s203/s204
Porsche has awd cars
Audi has the S4 thats now AWD and a V8
BMW has X-drive

Basically, honda and toyota are the last on the bandwagon. This isn't anything new, except to Honduh.

reckedracing · 04-07-2006, 12:13 PM

but as soon as honda steps in the ring you can bet it will "redefine" the class

i have faith in honda R and D

Battle Pope · 04-07-2006, 12:20 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Widow g2 @ Apr 7 2006, 01:43 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
is it supposed to be like the mdx?
[/b][/quote]

The new RDX will be like a luxified CRV-sized "urban SUV".

totalburnout · 04-07-2006, 12:43 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reckedracing @ Apr 7 2006, 12:13 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
but as soon as honda steps in the ring you can bet it will "redefine" the class

i have faith in honda R and D
[/b][/quote]

I believe it will be competitive but Honda is still yet to develop an engine in an econo car with torque.

Calesta · 04-07-2006, 01:47 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pissedoffsol @ Apr 7 2006, 09:59 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Widow g2 @ Apr 7 2006, 05:43 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
is it supposed to be like the mdx?
[/b][/quote]
no, its not a sport ute. its higher than the s2k, and below the former nsx.
[/b][/quote]

But it will no doubt outperform the NSX. I read about it on S2ki last week. I'm surprised that nobody else posted it here- I didn't because I thought people were already talking about it. Oh well. I still think it's sweet. Now I just have to know if I can bolt that 3L into my S2k.

NissanNiNjA2nd · 04-07-2006, 04:56 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pissedoffsol @ Apr 6 2006, 09:59 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>Could Honda be trying to redefine the classic sports-car formula, and change the way we think about sports cars and awd? It's a definite possibility because Honda has expressed that much confidence in the capabilities of its SH-AWD.[/b][/quote] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

I think they are just now figuring out how awd works...... spent so damn long making awesome heads that the rest of the car went to shit.

Thats cool.... but FAAAAR from new.

hondarin · 04-08-2006, 04:07 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(New2TheCarSc ene @ Apr 7 2006, 11:03 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
What in the hell are they talking about redefining sports cars?

Mitsu already did it years ago with the DSM AWD.
Mitsu now has the Evo
Subaru has the WRX, WRX STi, and Impreza s203/s204
Porsche has awd cars
Audi has the S4 thats now AWD and a V8
BMW has X-drive

Basically, honda and toyota are the last on the bandwagon. This isn't anything new, except to Honduh.
[/b][/quote]

the "redifining" isn't simply AWD, it's the "SH" which stands for "Super-Handling." it pushes power to the outside wheels while turning to acheive better control. the prelude had "SH" for 97-01. i'm not sure if any other manufacturers are doing the same thing, but honda is really publicizing their system

NissanNiNjA2nd · 04-08-2006, 10:46 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hondarin @ Apr 8 2006, 02:07 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>the "redifining" isn't simply AWD, it's the "SH" which stands for "Super-Handling." it pushes power to the outside wheels while turning to acheive better control. the prelude had "SH" for 97-01. i'm not sure if any other manufacturers are doing the same thing, but honda is really publicizing their system[/b][/quote]...........most awd drives tranfer power. Its called a limited slip diff. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]

jeffie7 · 04-08-2006, 11:28 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NissanNiNjA2 nd @ Apr 8 2006, 10:46 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hondarin @ Apr 8 2006, 02:07 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>the "redifining" isn't simply AWD, it's the "SH" which stands for "Super-Handling." it pushes power to the outside wheels while turning to acheive better control. the prelude had "SH" for 97-01. i'm not sure if any other manufacturers are doing the same thing, but honda is really publicizing their system[/b][/quote]...........most awd drives tranfer power. Its called a limited slip diff. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

I believe it controls power to each wheel, all 4 ways, not just front/rear.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(New2TheCarSc ene @ Apr 7 2006, 12:43 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reckedracing @ Apr 7 2006, 12:13 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
but as soon as honda steps in the ring you can bet it will "redefine" the class

i have faith in honda R and D
[/b][/quote]

I believe it will be competitive but Honda is still yet to develop an engine in an econo car with torque.
[/b][/quote]

Does that suprise you? in the last few years honda has increased the size of their motors to offer more torque, but overall torque isnt their goal, its high MPG.

You want torque? go buy something else.

totalburnout · 04-08-2006, 12:40 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeffie7 @ Apr 8 2006, 11:28 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I believe it controls power to each wheel, all 4 ways, not just front/rear.
[/b][/quote]

Audi AWD/VW 4motion?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
Does that suprise you? in the last few years honda has increased the size of their motors to offer more torque, but overall torque isnt their goal, its high MPG.

You want torque? go buy something else.
[/b][/quote]

Yes, it does suprise. When chevy can put out a 5.7L engine with numbers more than twice as large as Hondas, and still get in the mid twenty's for gas mileage, and honda is yet to develop an engine that incorporates greater torque numbers.

This is where Celerity would bust in. Over the past 20 years, hondas gas mileage has stayed relatively even and in some respects, from models like the HX, has decreased dramatically over the years. After 20 years and millions in research and develop I expect leaps and bounds. Honda hasn't shown that in their econo line engines, they've shown that they'll take something that works and just keep using it - with no improvements being made or very few improvements. It took Honda how many years to abandon the B series and just now go to the K series?

Basically, Honda builds a great econo car but I would expect far more out of it - other manufacturers are catching Honda and if they don't start making leaps and bounds they're going to be caught with their pants down.

The Scion tc is already battling for the Civic's market share and is doing a damn good job being a competitor.

jeffie7 · 04-08-2006, 01:44 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
The Scion tc is already battling for the Civic's market share and is doing a damn good job being a competitor.
[/b][/quote]
TC isnt after the civic. its after the SI, I bet honda sells 10 times if not more civic sedans then toyota with their Tc.

I just think honda isnt out there to try to grab the sports market. they build a good car that most normal drivers want.

I dont like the civic, you dont seem to like the civic, why? because we want something more from our cars. but the basic buyer doesnt. they want a car that gets 30+ mpg and doesnt cost a lot to keep it running.

Honda as a company does great, they have a kick ass company that's ranked up there with Toyota, one of the largest auto companies in the world. IMO they know how to run things.

Only thing honda made in the last 10 years that I've really liked is the S2000. (not counting their bikes)

Just remember, we (the car guys) make up only a small group of car buyers.

Am I pissed at honda for not making their engines bigger and more torque happy? no I could care less, that's why I drive a Nissan.

totalburnout · 04-08-2006, 02:25 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
TC isnt after the civic. its after the SI, I bet honda sells 10 times if not more civic sedans then toyota with their Tc.[/b][/quote]

A believe a Si *IS* a civic, so therefore its after the civic. Its priced right around $16,000-$17,000 to compete with any midway civic model.

It doesn't matter if honda sells 10 times more civics, than toyota - honda has history in the market. My point is that toyota is gaining on the honda civic, *AND IT IS*. The corolla and tc are now major competitors.

Also I know that they're out just to sell econo cars, not sports cars, but every other manufacturer has stepped up and made the definition of an econo car a little bit higher year after year. This is why now virtually every econo car has luxuries that only top end cars once had. If you want a navi system, you can get one. Power windows, locks, mirrors, seats, no problem. 6 disc cd changer? sure. spoiler, alloy rims? sure.

Calesta · 04-08-2006, 07:41 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeffie7 @ Apr 8 2006, 12:44 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I just think honda isnt out there to try to grab the sports market. they build a good car that most normal drivers want.
[/b][/quote]

Damn straight. Read my quote in Jeef's signature... held true when I wrote it, 10 years before I wrote it, now, and probably 10 years from now.

04-06-2006, 12:06 PM	#2
ripperbone angry bear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oklahoma Age: 37 Posts: 2,969 iTrader: 1 / 100% Ride: 02 Acura RSX Rep Power: 44	wow awd honda, not bad, and the nsx replacement suppose to have around 450 to 500 hp, nice cant wait to see what it looks like __________________ XBL: ripperbone Vouches / Good buyers or sellers = * pissedoffsol* socolsvtec* lshatchcx18* hybrid89* aafryf* integraracing91* twistedimage* NoJokE* 5speed4life* Estorvito* sheekdude* antonio* VTECPOWER* 98hybrid* traitorzxiong* preludebuddy* wanderinman* TurboMirage* kaoskustoms* B16RacerN2NR* HPHP80620*

04-06-2006, 12:11 PM	#3
reckedracing TTIWWOP Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 845 Area, NY Age: 29 Posts: 15,381 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 90 z6-t hatch, 94 Bagged S10, 91 Lifted Mazda Rep Power: 411	http://www.s2ki.com/Home/content/view/252/6/ another source... sad end to the s2k though... thats unfortunate AWD... i wonder if this means boost in the future? __________________ I'll blow a hole in your face then go inside and sleep like a baby.

04-06-2006, 03:48 PM	#6
Black Widow g2 princess Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stockton, CA Age: 28 Posts: 3,582 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 90 Integra B16 turbo, 00 Civic Si B18C n/a, 07 Fit Sport Rep Power: 71	i looked at a few of them. sounds pretty f'in sweet on all those new imports. the subie looks odd though. __________________ ~ArtieTuned - EFI University Certified Tuner~ ECU ChippingCustom ProgramsStreet/Dyno Tuning Crome ProMotecHaltechAutronicHondata* UberdataNeptuneFastAEM MegaSquirt*and more In the NorCal area http://www.artietuned.com e-mail: tuner@sonic.net or PM me Black Widow's Baby Pool

04-06-2006, 03:53 PM	#7
micah Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: panama city beach, florida Posts: 3,516 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 50	i just posted a little while ago that honda anounced a v10 coming as soon as 08. v10 awd sport coupe [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif[/img] __________________ god called in sick today

04-07-2006, 05:43 AM	#10
Black Widow g2 princess Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stockton, CA Age: 28 Posts: 3,582 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 90 Integra B16 turbo, 00 Civic Si B18C n/a, 07 Fit Sport Rep Power: 71	is it supposed to be like the mdx? __________________ ~ArtieTuned - EFI University Certified Tuner~ ECU ChippingCustom ProgramsStreet/Dyno Tuning Crome ProMotecHaltechAutronicHondata* UberdataNeptuneFastAEM MegaSquirt*and more In the NorCal area http://www.artietuned.com e-mail: tuner@sonic.net or PM me Black Widow's Baby Pool


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04-06-2006, 11:59 AM	#1
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 29 Posts: 49,951 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 531	http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?se..._number=5#honda <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Honda XGA A new type of sports car. The internal name given to the S2000's replacement is XGA. We had thought all along that the XGA would be a 4-door sports car showcasing Honda's SH-AWD system used in the RL and its advanced hybrid technology (remember the Dual Note concept car?). Well, now we're hearing the company is leaning toward producing a coupe based on the RL platform, but equipping it with either the V-8 or V-10 for the NSX replacement. Honda will surely equip the luxury coupe with its SH-AWD system, creating a car that would match up with the likes of the Nissan GT-R. If the XGA and the next NSX make it to production as we foresee, it would mean that all of Honda's sporty cars would be awd. Could Honda be trying to redefine the classic sports-car formula, and change the way we think about sports cars and awd? It's a definite possibility because Honda has expressed that much confidence in the capabilities of its SH-AWD. The XGA will be front engine and look quite different from the RL, and it may go head-to-head with the GT-R. A hint of its styling may be seen in the Sports4 Concept shown at the Tokyo Motor Show. While it's still too early to tell when this car will be available, we're sure that Honda is hard at work to reestablish its image as one of the world's leading sports-car makers. It shouldn't be long after the end of the S2000's run that we'll start seeing exciting new stuff from this technology-driven company. [/b][/quote]

04-06-2006, 12:26 PM	#4
pills_PMD Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: New Albany, OH Posts: 4,262 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 01 is300, 05 s2000, 03 rx300 Rep Power: 57	i'd like to see that IS500 lexus!

04-06-2006, 07:01 PM	#8
preludebuddy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: putting the rad in colorado Posts: 372 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	aren't they making a turbo'd SUV? the rdx or something like that?

04-07-2006, 03:53 AM	#9
vanillakilla Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Tacoma Washington Posts: 364 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 11	yes they are. honda v10 [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/surprise.gif[/img]

04-07-2006, 10:57 AM	#11
reckedracing TTIWWOP Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 845 Area, NY Age: 29 Posts: 15,381 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 90 z6-t hatch, 94 Bagged S10, 91 Lifted Mazda Rep Power: 411	AWD v10 swap FTW motha fucka __________________ I'll blow a hole in your face then go inside and sleep like a baby.

04-07-2006, 10:59 AM	#12
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 29 Posts: 49,951 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 531	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Widow g2 @ Apr 7 2006, 05:43 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> is it supposed to be like the mdx? [/b][/quote] no, its not a sport ute. its higher than the s2k, and below the former nsx.

04-07-2006, 12:03 PM	#13
totalburnout Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Northern NJ Age: 24 Posts: 6,203 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2006 Audi A4 Rep Power: 116	What in the hell are they talking about redefining sports cars? Mitsu already did it years ago with the DSM AWD. Mitsu now has the Evo Subaru has the WRX, WRX STi, and Impreza s203/s204 Porsche has awd cars Audi has the S4 thats now AWD and a V8 BMW has X-drive Basically, honda and toyota are the last on the bandwagon. This isn't anything new, except to Honduh. __________________ "Good talk... I'll see you out there."

04-07-2006, 12:13 PM	#14
reckedracing TTIWWOP Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 845 Area, NY Age: 29 Posts: 15,381 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 90 z6-t hatch, 94 Bagged S10, 91 Lifted Mazda Rep Power: 411	but as soon as honda steps in the ring you can bet it will "redefine" the class i have faith in honda R and D __________________ I'll blow a hole in your face then go inside and sleep like a baby.

04-07-2006, 12:43 PM	#16
totalburnout Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Northern NJ Age: 24 Posts: 6,203 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2006 Audi A4 Rep Power: 116	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reckedracing @ Apr 7 2006, 12:13 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> but as soon as honda steps in the ring you can bet it will "redefine" the class i have faith in honda R and D [/b][/quote] I believe it will be competitive but Honda is still yet to develop an engine in an econo car with torque. __________________ "Good talk... I'll see you out there."

04-07-2006, 01:47 PM	#17
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,525 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pissedoffsol @ Apr 7 2006, 09:59 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Widow g2 @ Apr 7 2006, 05:43 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> is it supposed to be like the mdx? [/b][/quote] no, its not a sport ute. its higher than the s2k, and below the former nsx. [/b][/quote] But it will no doubt outperform the NSX. I read about it on S2ki last week. I'm surprised that nobody else posted it here- I didn't because I thought people were already talking about it. Oh well. I still think it's sweet. Now I just have to know if I can bolt that 3L into my S2k. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

04-07-2006, 04:56 PM	#18
NissanNiNjA2nd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,581 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 38	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pissedoffsol @ Apr 6 2006, 09:59 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>Could Honda be trying to redefine the classic sports-car formula, and change the way we think about sports cars and awd? It's a definite possibility because Honda has expressed that much confidence in the capabilities of its SH-AWD.[/b][/quote] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] I think they are just now figuring out how awd works...... spent so damn long making awesome heads that the rest of the car went to shit. Thats cool.... but FAAAAR from new.

04-08-2006, 10:46 AM	#20
NissanNiNjA2nd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,581 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 38	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hondarin @ Apr 8 2006, 02:07 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>the "redifining" isn't simply AWD, it's the "SH" which stands for "Super-Handling." it pushes power to the outside wheels while turning to acheive better control. the prelude had "SH" for 97-01. i'm not sure if any other manufacturers are doing the same thing, but honda is really publicizing their system[/b][/quote]...........most awd drives tranfer power. Its called a limited slip diff. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]

04-08-2006, 11:28 AM	#21
jeffie7 My Vtec is biger then urs Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Maryland Age: 26 Posts: 9,163 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 283	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NissanNiNjA2 nd @ Apr 8 2006, 10:46 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hondarin @ Apr 8 2006, 02:07 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>the "redifining" isn't simply AWD, it's the "SH" which stands for "Super-Handling." it pushes power to the outside wheels while turning to acheive better control. the prelude had "SH" for 97-01. i'm not sure if any other manufacturers are doing the same thing, but honda is really publicizing their system[/b][/quote]...........most awd drives tranfer power. Its called a limited slip diff. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img] [/b][/quote] I believe it controls power to each wheel, all 4 ways, not just front/rear. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(New2TheCarSc ene @ Apr 7 2006, 12:43 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reckedracing @ Apr 7 2006, 12:13 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> but as soon as honda steps in the ring you can bet it will "redefine" the class i have faith in honda R and D [/b][/quote] I believe it will be competitive but Honda is still yet to develop an engine in an econo car with torque. [/b][/quote] Does that suprise you? in the last few years honda has increased the size of their motors to offer more torque, but overall torque isnt their goal, its high MPG. You want torque? go buy something else. __________________ www.handsonkitchen.com www.dogurday.com www.jeffnortham.com

04-08-2006, 12:40 PM	#22
totalburnout Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Northern NJ Age: 24 Posts: 6,203 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2006 Audi A4 Rep Power: 116	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeffie7 @ Apr 8 2006, 11:28 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> I believe it controls power to each wheel, all 4 ways, not just front/rear. [/b][/quote] Audi AWD/VW 4motion? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Does that suprise you? in the last few years honda has increased the size of their motors to offer more torque, but overall torque isnt their goal, its high MPG. You want torque? go buy something else. [/b][/quote] Yes, it does suprise. When chevy can put out a 5.7L engine with numbers more than twice as large as Hondas, and still get in the mid twenty's for gas mileage, and honda is yet to develop an engine that incorporates greater torque numbers. This is where Celerity would bust in. Over the past 20 years, hondas gas mileage has stayed relatively even and in some respects, from models like the HX, has decreased dramatically over the years. After 20 years and millions in research and develop I expect leaps and bounds. Honda hasn't shown that in their econo line engines, they've shown that they'll take something that works and just keep using it - with no improvements being made or very few improvements. It took Honda how many years to abandon the B series and just now go to the K series? Basically, Honda builds a great econo car but I would expect far more out of it - other manufacturers are catching Honda and if they don't start making leaps and bounds they're going to be caught with their pants down. The Scion tc is already battling for the Civic's market share and is doing a damn good job being a competitor. __________________ "Good talk... I'll see you out there."

04-08-2006, 01:44 PM	#23
jeffie7 My Vtec is biger then urs Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Maryland Age: 26 Posts: 9,163 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 283	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> The Scion tc is already battling for the Civic's market share and is doing a damn good job being a competitor. [/b][/quote] TC isnt after the civic. its after the SI, I bet honda sells 10 times if not more civic sedans then toyota with their Tc. I just think honda isnt out there to try to grab the sports market. they build a good car that most normal drivers want. I dont like the civic, you dont seem to like the civic, why? because we want something more from our cars. but the basic buyer doesnt. they want a car that gets 30+ mpg and doesnt cost a lot to keep it running. Honda as a company does great, they have a kick ass company that's ranked up there with Toyota, one of the largest auto companies in the world. IMO they know how to run things. Only thing honda made in the last 10 years that I've really liked is the S2000. (not counting their bikes) Just remember, we (the car guys) make up only a small group of car buyers. Am I pissed at honda for not making their engines bigger and more torque happy? no I could care less, that's why I drive a Nissan. __________________ www.handsonkitchen.com www.dogurday.com www.jeffnortham.com

04-08-2006, 02:25 PM	#24
totalburnout Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Northern NJ Age: 24 Posts: 6,203 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2006 Audi A4 Rep Power: 116	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> TC isnt after the civic. its after the SI, I bet honda sells 10 times if not more civic sedans then toyota with their Tc.[/b][/quote] A believe a Si IS a civic, so therefore its after the civic. Its priced right around $16,000-$17,000 to compete with any midway civic model. It doesn't matter if honda sells 10 times more civics, than toyota - honda has history in the market. My point is that toyota is gaining on the honda civic, AND IT IS. The corolla and tc are now major competitors. Also I know that they're out just to sell econo cars, not sports cars, but every other manufacturer has stepped up and made the definition of an econo car a little bit higher year after year. This is why now virtually every econo car has luxuries that only top end cars once had. If you want a navi system, you can get one. Power windows, locks, mirrors, seats, no problem. 6 disc cd changer? sure. spoiler, alloy rims? sure. __________________ "Good talk... I'll see you out there."

04-08-2006, 07:41 PM	#25
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,525 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 291	<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeffie7 @ Apr 8 2006, 12:44 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> I just think honda isnt out there to try to grab the sports market. they build a good car that most normal drivers want. [/b][/quote] Damn straight. Read my quote in Jeef's signature... held true when I wrote it, 10 years before I wrote it, now, and probably 10 years from now. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688