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peeonu25 · 09-07-2008, 12:17 AM

Regardless of who you support for President in 2008:<br /><br />The family we have in the military is rarely understood outside the military. For those of you that don't understand, take a look at this young man and hear him

http://www.youtube.com/v/TG4fe9GlWS8...e00&hl=en&fs=1

AHHVTEC · 09-07-2008, 12:19 AM

im sure you can find a soldier that thinks just the opposite

dacheat · 09-07-2008, 12:21 AM

for the sake of just pointing it out: more people in the armed forces financially supported ron paul (proponent of gtfo) than supported all of the other primary candidates combined.

there are always going to be conflicting opinions. i hear what the kid in the vid has to say, but i can also get behind the idea that we should gtfo before we flat can't. also iraq wants us out, they're demanding a timeline.

|Chaz| · 09-07-2008, 01:03 AM

He's a soldier, what do you expect? Don't you know they brainwash their people in the armed forces?

B16RacerN2NR · 09-07-2008, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Chaz|

He's a soldier, what do you expect? Don't you know they brainwash their people in the armed forces?

I'm gonna wait for the former and current HS members that are/were in the military to chime in... I'm gonna go grab some

hondarin · 09-07-2008, 03:51 AM

i've never been in the military, but i know two people personally who were. from those two case studies, if you go in just a lil messed up in the head, you're gonna come out completely fucked.

on the other hand if you're well adjusted individual, then you'll prolly be okay. however, it seems that many well adjusted people would not even think of joining the military.... catch 22.

i think it prolly takes a person with a low level of emotional variation to go in and come out the same

Drake · 09-07-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Chaz|

He's a soldier, what do you expect? Don't you know they brainwash their people in the armed forces?

Your kidding right?

Slammed89Integra · 09-07-2008, 02:25 PM

I have a few friends in Iraq. All are opposed to the war and are supporting Obama. My best friend had so many problems with demons from killing families, they have him on anti-depressants, but he's still there.

And yes. Chaz is right. It's just like the brainwashing that goes on at the dinner table in your average home with papa preaching and the kids following his/her political ideology, their entire life because that's what they were taught.

|Chaz| · 09-07-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

Your kidding right?

No, I'm not kidding. My Dad was in the Marines for 13 years and is finishing out his last 7 in the Air National Guard reserves. I see what goes on.

Obviously it's not all of them. But there sure are plenty of them.

gomezkun · 09-11-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B16RacerN2NR

I'm gonna wait for the former and current HS members that are/were in the military to chime in... I'm gonna go grab some

I am active duty and have been to Iraq; actually just got back in July.
The war has been going on for some time now and the reasons for being there have changed many times. From what I seen, and I am only speakin from my limited experience, but our presence is actually causing good to the people there.
New found freedoms and the ability for them to develop freely without fear of reprocusion is just something that can't really be explained.

As far as pulling out....
I don't know. I can complain about this and that, but I honestly don't have any solutions or anything. I do think that we need to bring my brothers and sisters home, but doing so too soon might cause an uprising against the actual progress made.

I will serve and do as I am told; we all know our duty when we enlisted.

Btw, we are not brainwashed about topics. We have our personalities, but we are not robots; we just watch what and how we discuss certain topics/issues.

peeonu25 · 09-15-2008, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacheat

for the sake of just pointing it out: more people in the armed forces financially supported ron paul (proponent of gtfo) than supported all of the other primary candidates combined.

there are always going to be conflicting opinions. i hear what the kid in the vid has to say, but i can also get behind the idea that we should gtfo before we flat can't. also iraq wants us out, they're demanding a timeline.

where did you hear that? every ron paul fanatic that has ever came through here has gotten the shit smoked out of him for being a brainwashed, racist bastard. if you see someone with a DOD sticker for a local post and a ron paul sticker on their vehicle, their either cherries or some asshole who joined because mcdonalds wasn't supporting his habbits.

PTSD comes with war, it happens. i have many close friends and family who suffer from it, but people find ways to over come in, video games, singing, drawing, telling your storys and soemtimes it comes down to drinking. and you know what? if youre having them because you "killed a family" then thats your own problem that you followed an unjust order, then again... only the unborn are innocent, theres a reason why the streets clear out before an ambush.

A lot of people volunteer to go over to iraq, because they feel the cause in just, everyone whos been there has their own opinion, a lot say hell with it and that we need to bomb the hell out of everything there, but they all agree that we need to stay until the job is finished. if you're in the Army or Marines, you most likely know someone who has lost their life in Iraq or Afganistan, if you don't you definitely know someone who has lost a friend or family. so to say it was a mistake, and to say were going to pull out, is only dishonoring the ones who have died and it also means they died in vein.

you dont have to be brainwashed or a heartless piece of shit to go through war without suffering from PTSD, if you believe in the cause and you know that the people you killed, saved the lives of many, then you did one hell of a good deed. if it takes 10000 civilian deaths to give millions freedom for hundreds of years, i think the pros out weigh the cons. if someone who was innocent got killed in the process, so be it, obviously it was his time to go or he would still be standing today.

|Chaz| · 09-15-2008, 02:58 AM

What makes Ron Paul a fanatic? He sticks to republican values. He's not a neo-con like Bush or Mccain.

I have nothing against our war going on in Afghanistan, but come on, if you still think that Iraq had ties to Al Qaeda you're retarded. Even Bush admitted he was wrong about it.

You can't justify the deaths of innocent civilians for the freedom of Iraq. We can't be everyones babysitter. And now Iraq is signing some sort of oil contract with China. That's just stupid.

dacheat · 09-15-2008, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peeonu25

where did you hear that? every ron paul fanatic that has ever came through here has gotten the shit smoked out of him for being a brainwashed, racist bastard. if you see someone with a DOD sticker for a local post and a ron paul sticker on their vehicle, their either cherries or some asshole who joined because mcdonalds wasn't supporting his habbits.

blah blah defensive 'scared to actually look down the rabbit hole' false rumor rhetoric about racism and brainwashing - dude, read about the founding fathers - the original patriots - and then talk about ron paul, who is simply demanding that we the people go to the document that our nation was founded on rather than the politicians for our playbook. oh, and work on your spelling (which sucks and ruins any chance of someone taking your post seriously).

the point of my post was to clarify that there is strong military support for gtfo; much like our nation, our military is divided on what we should be doing. those serving in the military serve their country -- us, and the decisions that it/we make - we owe each person in the military their voice and representation in congress and in the white house because it is their blood spilling.

as for the military support, where didn't i hear that is a more worthy question. anyone without their heads up their bums heard it/read it.

Military support for the republican candidates The Truth @ The Spin Factor

Quote:

Source: Finance Reports for the 2007 July Quarterly.

Percentages**:
49.5% Ron Paul
34.6% McCain
7.0% Romney
4.6% Giuliani
2.0% Hunter
2.3% Others
*Note: These statistics include the contributions of employees who recorded or indicated their military branch. Contributions where no employer was specified were naturally not included.

Consent Of The Governed: The Military Supports Ron Paul
this article is dated back in feb of this year, but look at the stats:

Quote:

According to the FEC reports, these are the total number and amount of military donations for each of the presidential candidates*:

Ron Paul: 1160 $249k
John McCain: 438 $83k
Mike Huckabee: 126 $37k
Mitt Romney: 126 $24k
Barack Obama: 443 $76k
Hillary Clinton: 154 $41k

The Raw Story | Fox News asks Ron Paul why he gets most military support while calling for Iraq withdrawal

Quote:

Fox asked Paul about a study showing he is the candidate with the most support from members of the US military, even though he is calling for immediate withdrawal from Iraq. "We take the traditional position that you should only go to war under a declaration and win and get out," Paul explained. "It's protecting the troops ... and the fact that we get the money from the military more than all the other Republicans put together is a pretty darn good endorsement."

An Iraq War Veteran Tells Us Why the Military will Support Ron Paul

Quote:

Supporting the troops means that we keep them home until we have no other choice but to send them into harm’s way to protect the rest of us from a direct threat. Supporting the troops means that the American people force their Congress to vote to declare war when war is absolutely necessary. We must not allow Congress to pawn off its Constitutional responsibility by giving the executive a blanket use of force authorization. Supporting the troops means that we insist on a realistic battle plan, one that includes forethought on the insertion and the extraction of our troops; an entry plan and an exit plan. If Congress does declare war, it damn well better ensure our soldiers the best equipment available. Finally, supporting the troops means that we bring them back to their families as quickly as possible – declare war, win it and come home.

By this definition a great many politicians do not support the troops...Fortunately, not all politicians are the same. Ron Paul knows what it means to support the troops. When policymakers were beating the drums of war against Iraq, Congressman Paul challenged Congress to have an up or down vote on a declaration of war. He stood before Congress in 2002 and warned his colleagues of the grave dangers an invasion of Iraq would bring about.

|Chaz| · 09-15-2008, 03:27 AM

Great post Dacheat, repped.

dacheat · 09-15-2008, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Chaz|

Great post Dacheat, repped.

thanks, yo.

this thread isn't/shouldn't be about ron paul. it is/should be about the military's perspective on the upcoming election. and any argument or opinion worth hearing or reading should be able to withstand an opposing argument or opinion.

if the people can't handle an opinion or argument that conflicts with their own without resorting to defensive blabbering of baseless rhetoric, it simply means that they are not 100% sure of their own stance and are scared they could be wrong.

BrutalB83 · 09-15-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peeonu25

where did you hear that? every ron paul fanatic that has ever came through here has gotten the shit smoked out of him for being a brainwashed, racist bastard. if you see someone with a DOD sticker for a local post and a ron paul sticker on their vehicle, their either cherries or some asshole who joined because mcdonalds wasn't supporting his habbits.

PTSD comes with war, it happens. i have many close friends and family who suffer from it, but people find ways to over come in, video games, singing, drawing, telling your storys and soemtimes it comes down to drinking. and you know what? if youre having them because you "killed a family" then thats your own problem that you followed an unjust order, then again... only the unborn are innocent, theres a reason why the streets clear out before an ambush.

A lot of people volunteer to go over to iraq, because they feel the cause in just, everyone whos been there has their own opinion, a lot say hell with it and that we need to bomb the hell out of everything there, but they all agree that we need to stay until the job is finished. if you're in the Army or Marines, you most likely know someone who has lost their life in Iraq or Afganistan, if you don't you definitely know someone who has lost a friend or family. so to say it was a mistake, and to say were going to pull out, is only dishonoring the ones who have died and it also means they died in vein.

you dont have to be brainwashed or a heartless piece of shit to go through war without suffering from PTSD, if you believe in the cause and you know that the people you killed, saved the lives of many, then you did one hell of a good deed. if it takes 10000 civilian deaths to give millions freedom for hundreds of years, i think the pros out weigh the cons. if someone who was innocent got killed in the process, so be it, obviously it was his time to go or he would still be standing today.

I'm sorry, but if you're trying to convince us that you're not brainwashed, that wasn't a very good argument...

And dacheat, nice post!

Silverchild79 · 09-15-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Chaz|

He's a soldier, what do you expect? Don't you know they brainwash their people in the armed forces?

Quote:

Originally Posted by B16RacerN2NR

I'm gonna wait for the former and current HS members that are/were in the military to chime in... I'm gonna go grab some

I served honorably six years and I have no problem with his statement. I knew going in that what I was doing would preserve the right of any American to make completely ignorant comments.

But I would advise him to consider this

His "brainwashed" friends have probably seen much of the world and that world's reality through their own eyes. Largely, while he's been living at "mommy's house". So is it that they're brainwashed, or might his own viewpoint be myopic?

newb · 09-15-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverchild79

His "brainwashed" friends have probably seen much of the world and that world's reality through their own eyes. Largely, while he's been living at "mommy's house". So is it that they're brainwashed, or might his own viewpoint be myopic?

Nice! I wish more ppl had this train of thought. This statement should put things in a different perspective for a lot of ppl, but for some reason I dont think it will.

|Chaz| · 09-16-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverchild79

I served honorably six years and I have no problem with his statement. I knew going in that what I was doing would preserve the right of any American to make completely ignorant comments.

But I would advise him to consider this

His "brainwashed" friends have probably seen much of the world and that world's reality through their own eyes. Largely, while he's been living at "mommy's house". So is it that they're brainwashed, or might his own viewpoint be myopic?

Oh trust me, I've thought about this before. Just because I'm not in the middle of a war doesn't mean I don't have a general understanding what exactly is going on.

I might have a biased view since I'm not over in the middle of the war, but the people who are over in the middle of the war are also biased.

But like you said, what do I know? I haven't done any research or talked to all sorts of different people with different perspectives. I'm just living in "mommy's house" right?

K2e2vin · 09-16-2008, 03:33 AM

I know people that have seen the world; not in the eyes of a soldier, but in the form of tourist, contract workers, refugees, etc. etc. and they too have their own opinions that differ from each other. They all do agree we had no point in being in Iraq; it seems like America is bullying other countries. They way to do it would've been through an allied unit like NATO or UN. If anything, North Korea is a more serious and direct threat to the US. America is not the world police, and shouldn't be.

K2e2vin · 09-16-2008, 03:37 AM

Also I have friends and family who've been to/currently in Iraq. Most of them would agree that they hate Iraq and don't want to be there(minus the action). Sure, they have parts they like and what not, but aren't willing to risk their life or their friend's life for the freedom of a country where half of the population doesn't want them there.

I guess you can say they feel like they're not fighting for America, but rather for "the better" of Iraq.

My family fought in a war that was said to be a mistake also. :-/

peeonu25 · 09-16-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Chaz|

Oh trust me, I've thought about this before. Just because I'm not in the middle of a war doesn't mean I don't have a general understanding what exactly is going on.

I might have a biased view since I'm not over in the middle of the war, but the people who are over in the middle of the war are also biased.

But like you said, what do I know? I haven't done any research or talked to all sorts of different people with different perspectives. I'm just living in "mommy's house" right?

Not for one second think you have any clue about what’s going on in Iraq, until you put some boots and an IBA on and your feet touch the soil of that country and you leave the FOB, what opinions you have about the war and about that country are weightless. You can read articles and posts about people’s experiences in Iraq all day and you will still be clueless. I don't care what happens to the standing men and women of that country, they're not the ones placing IED's and ambushing our patrols, but they're doing nothing to prevent it either. it’s the children, the future of that country is what needs our help and everyone who’s in our military signed up knowing they can go to war, as unjust as most of you feel it is... everyone of us who have raised our right hand and sworn an oath knew what we were getting into.

Ron Paul’s "bring ALL the troops home" idea would break this country... billions of dollars of military equipment is placed throughout Europe, Asia and Africa, even bringing our equipment out of Iraq will cost more than the equipment, which is why a lot of it will get left behind. only thing ill agree with Ron Paul on is his stand on universal health care, I refuse to vote for anyone who believes everyone deserves free health care, our hospitals are already stretched thin. While I work my ass off and the crack head laquisha from Tacoma who hasn’t worked in 6 years doesn't deserve to have my taxes pay for her medical while I stand behind her in line when I’m trying to get medical attention, hell... I'm not going to a VA hospital.

And hey big boy, is my spelling a little bit better now? If you decide not to take me seriously, be my guest. It’s not a big deal to me, especially at 2am when I just get home and I have a smart ass remark from a Paul-Tard. Have fun following someone who wants to separate the federal gov't from education of our children, can you imagine what would happen to smaller states? even a state like WA, places like Todd beamer and Thomas Jefferson would have incredible funding, then other schools like rainier beach, Kentwood and federal way HS would have their funding cut to pennies, while he would bring this country back to 1875 by following the constitution word for word, do you not think the founding fathers of this country didn’t realize that the world would evolve into what it is now? Closing the doors and severing a lot of our foreign ties to the world, anyone know about the history of Japan? Didn’t they do that for awhile? Then asked us to come help them after they realized they were 40 years behind technologically.

AHHVTEC · 09-16-2008, 01:46 PM

bottom line is everyone has there opinion, i have family thats been to iraq and friends thats been there 2 and 3 times, and half of them agree with this guy and the other half are the direct opposite so this thread is like comparing chevy to ford.

peeonu25 · 09-16-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHHVTEC

bottom line is everyone has there opinion, i have family that been to iraq and friends that been there 2 and 3 times, and half of them agree with this guy and the other half are the direct opposite sothis thread is like comparing chevy to ford.

probably should have used something like apples and oranges... everyone knows chevys are better

i can hijack my own thread right?

AHHVTEC · 09-16-2008, 01:50 PM

i used chevy and ford because this is a car forum not a fruit forum

09-07-2008, 12:17 AM	#1
peeonu25 Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: AAF Posts: 21 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 0	Obama from the eyes of a Soldier Regardless of who you support for President in 2008:<br /><br />The family we have in the military is rarely understood outside the military. For those of you that don't understand, take a look at this young man and hear him http://www.youtube.com/v/TG4fe9GlWS8...e00&hl=en&fs=1 __________________ 94 Accord H22A LSD 94 Accord Stock F22B2

09-07-2008, 12:21 AM	#3
dacheat ..is grounded. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: strongbadia Posts: 3,776 iTrader: 4 / 100% Ride: '84 buick (rusted) Rep Power: 257	for the sake of just pointing it out: more people in the armed forces financially supported ron paul (proponent of gtfo) than supported all of the other primary candidates combined. there are always going to be conflicting opinions. i hear what the kid in the vid has to say, but i can also get behind the idea that we should gtfo before we flat can't. also iraq wants us out, they're demanding a timeline. __________________ marco....

09-07-2008, 01:03 AM	#4
\|Chaz\| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington Age: 19 Posts: 3,095 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 92' EG Sedan Rep Power: 156	He's a soldier, what do you expect? Don't you know they brainwash their people in the armed forces? __________________ XBL Gamertag = i1Chad1i & i (space here)Chaz(space here)i

09-07-2008, 02:25 PM	#8
Slammed89Integra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Washington Age: 22 Posts: 7,711 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2007 Scion TC, 2005 Suzuki GSX-R 600 Rep Power: 155	I have a few friends in Iraq. All are opposed to the war and are supporting Obama. My best friend had so many problems with demons from killing families, they have him on anti-depressants, but he's still there. And yes. Chaz is right. It's just like the brainwashing that goes on at the dinner table in your average home with papa preaching and the kids following his/her political ideology, their entire life because that's what they were taught. __________________ When this is all over I think we should get an apartment together.

09-15-2008, 02:58 AM	#12
\|Chaz\| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington Age: 19 Posts: 3,095 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 92' EG Sedan Rep Power: 156	What makes Ron Paul a fanatic? He sticks to republican values. He's not a neo-con like Bush or Mccain. I have nothing against our war going on in Afghanistan, but come on, if you still think that Iraq had ties to Al Qaeda you're retarded. Even Bush admitted he was wrong about it. You can't justify the deaths of innocent civilians for the freedom of Iraq. We can't be everyones babysitter. And now Iraq is signing some sort of oil contract with China. That's just stupid. __________________ XBL Gamertag = i1Chad1i & i (space here)Chaz(space here)i


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09-07-2008, 12:19 AM	#2
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 29 Posts: 11,356 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 268	im sure you can find a soldier that thinks just the opposite

09-15-2008, 03:27 AM	#14
\|Chaz\| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington Age: 19 Posts: 3,095 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 92' EG Sedan Rep Power: 156	Great post Dacheat, repped. __________________ XBL Gamertag = i1Chad1i & i (space here)Chaz(space here)i

09-16-2008, 03:33 AM	#20
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,313 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	I know people that have seen the world; not in the eyes of a soldier, but in the form of tourist, contract workers, refugees, etc. etc. and they too have their own opinions that differ from each other. They all do agree we had no point in being in Iraq; it seems like America is bullying other countries. They way to do it would've been through an allied unit like NATO or UN. If anything, North Korea is a more serious and direct threat to the US. America is not the world police, and shouldn't be. __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006

09-16-2008, 03:37 AM	#21
K2e2vin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 22 Posts: 6,313 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: 88 Honda Civic HB Rep Power: 150	Also I have friends and family who've been to/currently in Iraq. Most of them would agree that they hate Iraq and don't want to be there(minus the action). Sure, they have parts they like and what not, but aren't willing to risk their life or their friend's life for the freedom of a country where half of the population doesn't want them there. I guess you can say they feel like they're not fighting for America, but rather for "the better" of Iraq. My family fought in a war that was said to be a mistake also. :-/ __________________ 1988 Honda Civic Standard-more mods than I want to list 1992 Honda Accord LX 1996 Toyota Avalon-Spun bearing, for sale. Terrorists have successfully attacked our imagination. RIP Jon Eban Nie, August 31, 1991 - May 7, 2006 Y-Daniel Siu Eban, September 7, 1986 - May 7, 2006 Last edited by K2e2vin; 09-16-2008 at 03:44 AM.

09-16-2008, 01:46 PM	#23
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 29 Posts: 11,356 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 268	bottom line is everyone has there opinion, i have family thats been to iraq and friends thats been there 2 and 3 times, and half of them agree with this guy and the other half are the direct opposite so this thread is like comparing chevy to ford.

09-16-2008, 01:50 PM	#25
AHHVTEC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alabama Age: 29 Posts: 11,356 iTrader: 3 / 100% Ride: dc5,mk4 gti,2nd gen civic,92 accord cp,88 crx hf Rep Power: 268	i used chevy and ford because this is a car forum not a fruit forum Last edited by AHHVTEC; 09-17-2008 at 12:13 AM.

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Obama from the eyes of a Soldier