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jeffie7 · 08-22-2004, 09:46 PM

Quote:

[b]Employers, workers weigh overtime rules’ effect
Who gains, loses? Impact of Fair Labor Act on paychecks unclear
The Associated Press
Updated: 6:07 p.m. ET Aug. 22, 2004

WASHINGTON - Paychecks could surge or shrink for a few or for millions of workers across the country starting Monday, when sweeping changes to the nation’s overtime pay rules take effect.

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There is little agreement by the Bush administration, employer groups, labor experts and others on how many workers will gain or lose the right to overtime pay under the new rules in the Fair Labor Standards Act.

“To be candid, no one knows,” said Jerry Hunter, a labor lawyer at Bryan Cave LLP in St. Louis and former general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board during the first Bush administration.

Employers have sought changes for decades, complaining the regulations were ambiguous and out of date, and questioning why highly paid professionals should get overtime pay. Labor unions, however, say the new rules are intended to reduce employers’ costs by cutting the number workers who are eligible for overtime pay.

Estimates of how many workers will lose their overtime eligibility range from 107,000 to 6 million. Workers who could become newly eligible range from very few to 1.3 million.

A ‘fluid’ situation
“Not only is the Labor Department unsure, but a lot of people in a lot of industries are unsure,” Hunter said. “This is all very fluid right now.”

The major overhaul, the first in more than half a century, is aimed at mostly white-collar workers. The Labor Department says manual laborers and other blue-collar workers will not be affected.

The new rules are intended to limit workers’ multimillion-dollar lawsuits, many of them successful, claiming they were cheated out of overtime pay for working more than 40 hours a week.

Retailers, restaurants, insurance firms and banks have been targets, and jobs in those places are generally exempted from overtime in the new rules. They include chefs, pharmacists, funeral directors, embalmers, journalists, insurance claims adjusters, low-and midlevel bank managers and dental hygienists.

Whether the new rules will reduce litigation is questionable, experts said. Lawyers representing workers have found the suits lucrative.

“This has become a very big area of plaintiffs’ employment law, and it is not simply going to go away because of these new regulations,” Bill Schurgin, a labor lawyer in the Chicago office of Seyfarth Shaw.

Critics lament ‘drastic changes’
Critics say the changes will eliminate overtime for millions of middle-class Americans struggling in a weak jobs market.

“These are drastic changes that will hurt working families,” said Karen Nussbaum, executive director of Working America, an AFL-CIO organization created for workers unable to join unions. The AFL-CIO is holding a protest outside the Labor Department on Monday.

Labor Secretary Elaine Chao has created a task force that will be “looking very closely and critically at any reclassifications that result in workers losing their overtime status,” said Steven Law, deputy secretary.

No new funds have been added, but the department’s Wage and Hour Division “will be very, very carefully monitoring and following up with enforcement,” especially in high-violation industries, he said. The department won $212 million in back wages for overtime violations in 2003, a 21 percent increase.

For Denver utility, no changes
At Denver Water, a public utility, none of the 1,050 employees will be reclassified, said benefits manager Jim Crockett.

“We were in compliance before, and when I analyzed the jobs for the new rules, it came up that no changes were necessary,” he said.

When in doubt, the utility classifies workers as overtime-eligible, Crockett said. For example, its survey chiefs are in the field only during only summer months supervising crews; the rest of the year they oversee few workers, if any. But the chiefs are given overtime status, he said.

About 107,000 white-collar workers now eligible for overtime pay who earn $100,000 or more annually could lose it under the new rules, the Labor Department said.

About 1.3 million workers, mostly low- and midlevel managers at stores and restaurants, who earn less than $23,660 a year will be newly eligible. However, employers can avoid paying them overtime by raising their salaries, so critics say far fewer will benefit from overtime.

Rules change ‘duties tests’ definitions
For white-collar workers who fall between those salary levels, their overtime status depends on their job duties and experience. The rules revamp the definitions of professional, administrative and executive employees, called “duties tests,” that are used to determine eligibility.

For example, professional employees exempt from overtime had professional degrees. The new rule allows employers to substitute work experience and instruction.

Executive employees had authority to hire and fire. The new rule expands that provision, saying an executive can make recommendations that carry weight regarding employment status.

Labor leaders say slight changes in wording could exempt millions from overtime pay. The Labor Department says duties are more clear and make status more certain, resulting in “few, if any” losing overtime.

The changes will prompt “a whole new round of litigation to determine what these phrases mean,” said Baldwin Robertson, a Washington labor lawyer hired by Working America to answer workers’ questions on its Web site.

2000Si · 08-22-2004, 10:02 PM

fuckin government.

All i know is if this ends up effecting me and ingram decides I have to stay past 9 pm picking books I'm gonna

as I walk out the door promptly at 9.

BodyDroppedNikes · 08-22-2004, 10:16 PM

businesses will find a way of working around it, especially businesses that sells merchandise for consumers.

oh and James, you wont work past 9pm at Ingrams. when they do overtime, you come in 2 hrs early and leave at 9 like you normally do.

ahedau · 08-22-2004, 10:31 PM

rant

My company has or had a class action suit about this B.S. I work for one of the aforementioned "insurance firms" and this federal law was designed to help hinder this kind of crap.

If you are asked to work longer than your scheduled shift, then you are either paid over-time or are offered paid leave. That's how its supposed to work. But when the overtime is measured in minutes and not hours, its diffcult to keep up with it. Both for the employer and the employee.

My employers class action suit and several others are for employees that work in phone units where you can't just hang up on a call because its your time to go home. Some smart attorney figured out if he ruffled enough feathers and made enough promises, someone would finally agree to be his bitch and help him get a suit filed.

Companies for the MOST PART do the right thing. Attorneys seeking to screw, I mean sue, the man for the MOST PART do not.

/rant

Jeef · 08-22-2004, 10:36 PM

I will quit my job if I lose my overtime. Last year I made over 5 grand in ot. Then there are weeks like this week where I have to cover my managers shift and work close to 80 hours, I will not do this for free.

jeffie7 · 08-22-2004, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeef@Aug 22 2004, 10:36 PM
[b]I will quit my job if I lose my overtime. Last year I made over 5 grand in ot. Then there are weeks like this week where I have to cover my managers shift and work close to 80 hours, I will not do this for free.

Quoted post

Sounds like I'm going to get pulled into many many many extra hours at work.....

bastards

2000Si · 08-22-2004, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TrailorParkPimp@Aug 22 2004, 10:16 PM
[b]businesses will find a way of working around it, especially businesses that sells merchandise for consumers.

oh and James, you wont work past 9pm at Ingrams. when they do overtime, you come in 2 hrs early and leave at 9 like you normally do.

Quoted post

Either way. I will not work over if I'm not getting that incentive for it.

MaaseyRacer · 08-22-2004, 11:28 PM

Well at least I still get my $600 dollar tax rebate.

hcivic.com · 08-22-2004, 11:34 PM

GO Canada!

Havok · 08-23-2004, 01:06 AM

Haha, you tools. I can work overtime whenever I choose, for whatever hours I choose

pissedoffsol · 08-23-2004, 09:08 AM

salary > dealing with all this bullshit.

i know exactly what i make every week, no matter what.

if i have to work late on monday, tuesday, i leave early, or take a long lunch.

its easy as that

pissedoffsol · 08-23-2004, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by revolution8k+Aug 22 2004, 11:02 PM-->

Quote:

Originally Posted by revolution8k @ Aug 22 2004, 11:02 PM)

fuckin government.

All i know is if this ends up effecting me and ingram decides I have to stay past 9 pm picking books I'm gonna as I walk out the door promptly at 9.

Quoted post

Quote:

Originally posted by TrailorParkPimp@Aug 22 2004, 11:16 PM
[b]businesses will find a way of working around it, especially businesses that sells merchandise for consumers.

oh and James, you wont work past 9pm at Ingrams. when they do overtime, you come in 2 hrs early and leave at 9 like you normally do.

Quoted post

ahedau@Aug 22 2004, 11:31 PM
[b]rant

My company has or had a class action suit about this B.S. I work for one of the aforementioned "insurance firms" and this federal law was designed to help hinder this kind of crap.

If you are asked to work longer than your scheduled shift, then you are either paid over-time or are offered paid leave. That's how its supposed to work. But when the overtime is measured in minutes and not hours, its diffcult to keep up with it. Both for the employer and the employee.

My employers class action suit and several others are for employees that work in phone units where you can't just hang up on a call because its your time to go home. Some smart attorney figured out if he ruffled enough feathers and made enough promises, someone would finally agree to be his bitch and help him get a suit filed.

Companies for the MOST PART do the right thing. Attorneys seeking to screw, I mean sue, the man for the MOST PART do not.

/rant

Quoted post

test

97CTR · 08-24-2004, 07:41 AM

I work a ton of overtime, around 11k worth last year. The thing that sucks though is the govt takes most of it. I work overtime and don't end up making shit. Becasue it bumps me up into a higher tax bracket and the govt ends up taking most of it.

What they should do is pass a bill that changes how much they tax overtime, split the taxes into a straight time and overtime categories. That would be sweet, so the extra hours you work you actually get some benefit.

2000Si · 08-24-2004, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Aug 23 2004, 09:08 AM
[b]salary > dealing with all this bullshit.

i know exactly what i make every week, no matter what.

if i have to work late on monday, tuesday, i leave early, or take a long lunch.

its easy as that

Quoted post

hourly > salary

At least in my case. I was getting royally screwed by my one job. salary, then he capped the shit... so when you claim 0 on your taxes and you're 21 and single... yeah 1/3 of my check was gone every two weeks. Fuckin A.

pissedoffsol · 08-24-2004, 11:28 AM

umm, i think you are confused.

if you work exactly 40 hours a week, and are hourly, you will have the exact same tax cut that you would if you are salary

2000Si · 08-24-2004, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Aug 24 2004, 11:28 AM
[b]umm, i think you are confused.

if you work exactly 40 hours a week, and are hourly, you will have the exact same tax cut that you would if you are salary

Quoted post

Well, they take more taxes out when you get paid every two weeks vs every week. Sometimes he'd take taxes out of one check from both weeks combined, instead of week by week.

jeffie7 · 08-24-2004, 08:54 PM

You're very right. If you make 300 bucks in one week they will take 100 dollars out if they tax you 1/3rd like you said

If you work 2 weeks and make 600 dollars they take more money out of your pay check 200 dollars VS 100 dollers...... Hmmm so thats 2/6ths so yup more money then if you were to work one week

My boss told me it does not effect us so WOOHOO! for me =)

TDaddy · 08-24-2004, 09:01 PM

I work tons of overtime...unfortunately or unfortunately I work in sales...commission based...won't affect me anyway.

pissedoffsol · 08-24-2004, 09:35 PM

umm ok, 1/6 is nto 2/6th's your right

but 1/6th X 52 = 1/3 X 26

go back to school- both of you

jeffie7 · 08-24-2004, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Aug 24 2004, 09:35 PM
[b]umm ok, 1/6 is nto 2/6th's your right

but 1/6th X 52 = 1/3 X 26

go back to school- both of you

Quoted post

umm 100 out of 300 is 1/3rd
200 out of 600 is 2/6th aka 1/3rd

My point to rev8k was ITS THE SAME they take more money out of your check becuase you MAKE MORE

pissedoffsol · 08-24-2004, 09:44 PM

ok, example.

guy A gets paid 500/wk every week
guy B gets paid 2000/month, split bi monthly.

for simplicity of math, tax rate = 10%

Guy A:
500 X 10% = $50
$50 X 52 = $2600 yr/ in taxes.

Guy B:

1000 X 10% = $100
$100 X 26 = $2600 yr in taxes.

dead even.

now, the gov't scale is not straight 10%..
so, say guy a is in the 10% bracket, but guy B is put in the 15% bracket.

all that happens, is at the end of the year, guy B gets mroe money back.
OR, be smart, and claim yourself - 1 - and get less taken out.

its pretty simple.

2000Si · 08-24-2004, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeffie7+Aug 24 2004, 09:39 PM-->

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffie7 @ Aug 24 2004, 09:39 PM)

pissedoffsol

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffie7 @ Aug 24 2004, 09:39 PM)

@Aug 24 2004, 09:35 PM
[b]umm ok, 1/6 is nto 2/6th's your right

but 1/6th X 52 = 1/3 X 26

go back to school- both of you

Quoted post

umm 100 out of 300 is 1/3rd
200 out of 600 is 2/6th aka 1/3rd

My point to rev8k was ITS THE SAME they take more money out of your check becuase you MAKE MORE

Quoted post

Uh well then I guess someone fucked up because when he started taking taxes from two weeks, more was taken out.

My understanding is the more money you make, the higher the tax bracket you're put into, therefore the more money you make the more money is taken out of your checks.

if you make 300 and they take 20% = 60 taken out
600 might put you in a different bracket... say 25% is taken out...

I dunno if thats what really goes on, or if i was just getting royally fucked...but when they took taxes out of one large check I netted less spendable cash. Get my point mr sarcasm-out-the-asshole?

Oh...I guess I just made hte same point B did in his above post. Thanks B... btw I claimed 1 for this job.

jeffie7 · 08-24-2004, 10:15 PM

You're right when you make MORE money you fall under a different tax bracket...

however thats not what you stated you said they take more tax out if you get paid every 2 weeks vs once a week

Quote:

[b]Well, they take more taxes out when you get paid every two weeks vs every week. Sometimes he'd take taxes out of one check from both weeks combined, instead of week by week.

2000Si · 08-24-2004, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeffie7@Aug 24 2004, 10:15 PM
[b]You're right when you make MORE money you fall under a different tax bracket...

however thats not what you stated you said they take more tax out if you get paid every 2 weeks vs once a week

Quote:

[b]Well, they take more taxes out when you get paid every two weeks vs every week. Sometimes he'd take taxes out of one check from both weeks combined, instead of week by week.

Quoted post

Um... that has everything to do with it. I was making more money upon ONE check... that would put me into a higher tax bracket.

jeffie7 · 08-25-2004, 12:04 AM

So if you get paid every week you make less money then if you were to get paid every 2 weeks?

08-22-2004, 10:02 PM	#2
2000Si Posts: 14,889	fuckin government. All i know is if this ends up effecting me and ingram decides I have to stay past 9 pm picking books I'm gonna as I walk out the door promptly at 9.

08-22-2004, 10:16 PM	#3
BodyDroppedNikes Posts: 10,516	businesses will find a way of working around it, especially businesses that sells merchandise for consumers. oh and James, you wont work past 9pm at Ingrams. when they do overtime, you come in 2 hrs early and leave at 9 like you normally do.

08-22-2004, 10:31 PM	#4
ahedau Posts: 646	rant My company has or had a class action suit about this B.S. I work for one of the aforementioned "insurance firms" and this federal law was designed to help hinder this kind of crap. If you are asked to work longer than your scheduled shift, then you are either paid over-time or are offered paid leave. That's how its supposed to work. But when the overtime is measured in minutes and not hours, its diffcult to keep up with it. Both for the employer and the employee. My employers class action suit and several others are for employees that work in phone units where you can't just hang up on a call because its your time to go home. Some smart attorney figured out if he ruffled enough feathers and made enough promises, someone would finally agree to be his bitch and help him get a suit filed. Companies for the MOST PART do the right thing. Attorneys seeking to screw, I mean sue, the man for the MOST PART do not. /rant

08-22-2004, 10:36 PM	#5
Jeef Posts: 5,971	I will quit my job if I lose my overtime. Last year I made over 5 grand in ot. Then there are weeks like this week where I have to cover my managers shift and work close to 80 hours, I will not do this for free.

08-22-2004, 11:28 PM	#8
MaaseyRacer Posts: 2,978	Well at least I still get my $600 dollar tax rebate.

08-23-2004, 01:06 AM	#10
Havok Posts: 6,827	Haha, you tools. I can work overtime whenever I choose, for whatever hours I choose

08-23-2004, 09:08 AM	#11
pissedoffsol Posts: 49,698	salary > dealing with all this bullshit. i know exactly what i make every week, no matter what. if i have to work late on monday, tuesday, i leave early, or take a long lunch. its easy as that

08-24-2004, 07:41 AM	#13
97CTR Posts: 745	I work a ton of overtime, around 11k worth last year. The thing that sucks though is the govt takes most of it. I work overtime and don't end up making shit. Becasue it bumps me up into a higher tax bracket and the govt ends up taking most of it. What they should do is pass a bill that changes how much they tax overtime, split the taxes into a straight time and overtime categories. That would be sweet, so the extra hours you work you actually get some benefit.

08-24-2004, 11:28 AM	#15
pissedoffsol Posts: 49,698	umm, i think you are confused. if you work exactly 40 hours a week, and are hourly, you will have the exact same tax cut that you would if you are salary

08-24-2004, 08:54 PM	#17
jeffie7 Posts: 11,623	You're very right. If you make 300 bucks in one week they will take 100 dollars out if they tax you 1/3rd like you said If you work 2 weeks and make 600 dollars they take more money out of your pay check 200 dollars VS 100 dollers...... Hmmm so thats 2/6ths so yup more money then if you were to work one week My boss told me it does not effect us so WOOHOO! for me =)

08-22-2004, 11:34 PM	#9
hcivic.com Posts: 4,571	GO Canada!

08-24-2004, 09:01 PM	#18
TDaddy Posts: 477	I work tons of overtime...unfortunately or unfortunately I work in sales...commission based...won't affect me anyway.

08-24-2004, 09:35 PM	#19
pissedoffsol Posts: 49,698	umm ok, 1/6 is nto 2/6th's your right but 1/6th X 52 = 1/3 X 26 go back to school- both of you

08-24-2004, 09:44 PM	#21
pissedoffsol Posts: 49,698	ok, example. guy A gets paid 500/wk every week guy B gets paid 2000/month, split bi monthly. for simplicity of math, tax rate = 10% Guy A: 500 X 10% = $50 $50 X 52 = $2600 yr/ in taxes. Guy B: 1000 X 10% = $100 $100 X 26 = $2600 yr in taxes. dead even. now, the gov't scale is not straight 10%.. so, say guy a is in the 10% bracket, but guy B is put in the 15% bracket. all that happens, is at the end of the year, guy B gets mroe money back. OR, be smart, and claim yourself - 1 - and get less taken out. its pretty simple.

08-25-2004, 12:04 AM	#25
jeffie7 Posts: 11,623	So if you get paid every week you make less money then if you were to get paid every 2 weeks?

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As of tomorrow... No more overtime?