1980 Trans Am build thread....oh yeah its official

[TurboSol256]

Originally Posted by newb

Not a bad idea. You could also pick up an LQ4 or 9 6.0 liter for just a bit more. And in that case, if you get an '01 or newer they already have pretty nice aluminum heads. Not a bad platform at all.

Thats what my buddy said he wants to put in his 01 camaro. he said one outta an escalade or something was what he was trying to get because he blew his 5.7 LS1 up. Dunno. I have been messing with honda. All i really know about chevy is LT1s and carb 350s 305s and such. I dont really keep up with chevy much anymore.

[TurboSol256]

Originally Posted by newb

No it wasnt in the SS. Ever. It was in the Z28.

History lesson. The earliest Ford 302 is a Windsor block engine. It is larger version of the 289. The 289 came out in 62 or 63. Chevs 302 came out in 67. How could Chev sell the design to an engine they hadnt developed themselves?

ford 302 didnt come out in 62 63 the 289 or whatever did. Even Chrysler is better than ford dude. Just take it.

[newb]

The LQ's are the exact same as LS's, just have iron blocks. Not aluminum. Theyre also the only bigger motors that are direct drop ins because of the 24 tooth reluctor wheels. All the others have like 58 tooth wheels or somethin like that.

[newb]

Originally Posted by TurboSol256

ford 302 didnt come out in 62 63 the 289 or whatever did. Even Chrysler is better than ford dude. Just take it.

Way to repeat what I said.

[TurboSol256]

Why does my buddy want to put the LQ in because its Iron i suppose. the LQ is the escalade motor right. and the 289 came out not the 302. ford did a 302 because of chevy. whos to say ford didnt buy it, is henry ford your grandaddy or something and you know. you never heard the story of the 100mpg carb. lol

[newb]

He might want iron cuz theres a myth that the iron blocks hold more power. Its not true though. You musta missed what I said. The 302 is based off of the 289. The 289 came out 4 or 5 years BEFORE the Chev 302.

[double0Si]

ford chevy pontiac and mopar all had engines in the 300ci range due to the 305ci limit mandated by trans am rule makers. everyone got there a different way using what they already knew. ie chevy destroked the 327/350 and found it made good power rated for the street at 290 but internal documents show it made between 400-475 as raced. ford coincidentally reached the same figure with their combo. challengers got a destroked 340 (dont know its actual ci.) The big three where in an all out war for sales through the trans am series and NHRA so why would anyone sell any of their trade secrets. just like the 305ci engine that came in my 91 camaro is called a 5.0 and a 302 that came in a mustang for the same year is called a 5.0 the engines are totally different not even sharing the same true ci amount and purely coincidental. face it calling the engine a 301.7589 cubic inch engine would be stupid. and how would they make that look sweet on the side of a cowl hood or fender.

[newb]

^ Whacked that nail square on the head.

[double0Si]

like any hot rodder he probably wants it because it is cheap horsepower. theses no replacement for displacement except for boost and the escalade motors do both well for a lot less than their aluminum counterparts. if I didn't already have a 500hp beast of a fuel injected gen 1 motor for my camaro done id like follow the same route. the 6.0s can get to 500 with a cam, worked over heads, a good valvetrain, and intake (carbed or injected) and you never have to worry about reliability.

[newb]

Werd. I had an LQ4 ready for pickup to go in my 98 Z28, but the guy sold it from under me. Fuckin sucks.

[double0Si]

Originally Posted by newb

Werd. I had an LQ4 ready for pickup to go in my 98 Z28, but the guy sold it from under me. Fuckin sucks.

that sucks in waiting on my dad to blow the tahoe or to sell it to me. if it blows its rebuild for the 63 nova. if he sells its one bad ass tahoe time!

[philyphreak2127]

Hell no. This thing is intended to be a g-machine. As far as I am concerned I am going to "refresh" the stock motor with a couple bolt ons and a rebuild. A full exhaust, intake manifold, ported carb spacer, k&n air filter, holley carb. Then I will dive into the suspension. If the motor was solid and ran good I wouldn't have dropped a dime into it before I got the suspension the way I want it. It will get a tasteful drop at somepoint, probably with some decent coilovers, with some beefier sway bars, I would love to swap all 4 corners to disc brakes but yeah that is all dreams.

It's people like the guy saying I shouldn't waste my money on the 301 that make me want to do it that much more. NO one ever drops money into a 301, despite a few key things that people don't think about. First of all the turbo 301 that was in the Firebirds from 1977 to 1979 were designed to be run with a turbo, they beefed up the block so it could withstand boost conditions, this design continued on into the 1980, and 1981 but in every version of the 301. So I am starting with a strong block, that weighs less than any chevy small block you could find in that era. I did some research on the motor and decided that this was a motor that not a lot of people choose for their rods, it has the benefit of still being the original motor in the car retaining some of the value, plus this car is intended to be more of a scca type car eventually, less weight is helpful. Not trying to attack anyone, I am just a fan of the underdogs. Its hard to be different with a trans am.

[double0Si]

Originally Posted by philyphreak2127

Hell no. This thing is intended to be a g-machine. As far as I am concerned I am going to "refresh" the stock motor with a couple bolt ons and a rebuild. A full exhaust, intake manifold, ported carb spacer, k&n air filter, holley carb. Then I will dive into the suspension. If the motor was solid and ran good I wouldn't have dropped a dime into it before I got the suspension the way I want it. It will get a tasteful drop at somepoint, probably with some decent coilovers, with some beefier sway bars, I would love to swap all 4 corners to disc brakes but yeah that is all dreams.

It's people like the guy saying I shouldn't waste my money on the 301 that make me want to do it that much more. NO one ever drops money into a 301, despite a few key things that people don't think about. First of all the turbo 301 that was in the Firebirds from 1977 to 1979 were designed to be run with a turbo, they beefed up the block so it could withstand boost conditions, this design continued on into the 1980, and 1981 but in every version of the 301. So I am starting with a strong block, that weighs less than any chevy small block you could find in that era. I did some research on the motor and decided that this was a motor that not a lot of people choose for their rods, it has the benefit of still being the original motor in the car retaining some of the value, plus this car is intended to be more of a scca type car eventually, less weight is helpful. Not trying to attack anyone, I am just a fan of the underdogs. Its hard to be different with a trans am.

I have no problem with that as I gave some thought to building up the stock 305 in the camaro. But G-Machines typically though not always prefer Gen III swaps. I'm just trying to give you cheap alternatives that will perform how you want. You've got a long way to go to G Machine status with the 210HP your engines putting out. Its not impossible but very expensive, and the turbo they were built for was nothing like youd need. The thin wall castings will eventually prove that to you. Also I hate to say it but if your going to mod it all up on the suspension side having the 301 will do nothing to retain value especially once turbo'd and the rest that goes with it. Id just tuck it in a corner stock and restore it if you want the value return. Pontiac has a lot of purists that would love to get their hands on a stock one. Again good luck with what you decide as it's your decision. I always like to see a nice american muscle car with the G treatment. But remember where they got "G" for G Machine. At least a G in acceleration, Deceleration, and on the skid pad.

[philyphreak2127]

True that it won't retain as much value should I mod the suspension like I want it however most of the suspension stuff I am talking about is bolt on easily swapped out stuff should I ever decide to get rid of the car. Either way this car is my baby, it will drive and look the way it was intended when I bought it eventually it just has sat on the back burners since I bought my civic. As for the 210 horses you mentioned...I have the N/A setup that pushes about 150-170 horses. I figure with the bolt ons I am planning I can get near or above 200 horses.

But this all hinges on the hope that my bottom end is still in good shape. It was never beat on or anything as far as being driven, but it has sat without starting for a good while and it may be seized. If it isn't money will be a lot less tight, if it is that thing is going to be swapped. I have been looking into an lt1 swap from a 90's firebird with the 6 speed. I am a fan of those motors, a buddy of mine owned a 93 with the lt1 and 6 speed and that thing even stock impressed me plus they are no where near the cost of an ls motor. I have a ton of options right now, as far as I am concerned as long as it has a GM badge on it there is a possibility of it going in this car. I am just leaning very far to the 301 unless it absolutely must be replaced.

[philyphreak2127]

By the way thanks for reviving my dead thread in all seriousness. lol Also thanks for not completely knocking on me for both wanting to keep the 301. Most people laugh when I say it has the 301. Just more motivation I guess. Just to remind me why I love cars I put some pictures of it in my toolbox at work. lol

[double0Si]

its the sensible approach to get it back on the road. my brother had a 96' TA. LT1s impressed the hell out of me. its a good alternative. im not sure how much they go for but I found 8 5.3s in one junkyard website between 600 and 800. LT1=275 5.3=275-310 depending on the model. so price and weight is what it comes down to. whatever is best for your goals and ability in monetary sense. again good luck. as for bringing the post back to life I often feel like frankenstein when someone posts on an old one and it catches my eye. I unintentionally do it a lot.

[double0Si]

You seem farely set so i did some research and found out due to the short deck height most head/intake combos wont really work for you unless you extensively work over the intake manifold. You'll have to find specific 301 parts. Also they apparently had rather weak bottom ends. Also they are externally balanced so youll need a counterweighted flywheel if you intend to upgrade it. But on the bright side Summit Racing has a cam and lifter kit that is supposed to work really well on the 301. Duration 252/ 252, Lift .425/ .425. $189.95 NorthernAutoParts.com has a lot of replacement parts youll need (gaskets and such.)
Heres a thread on LS1Tech about the 301 capabilities. Brace yourself lol 81 Turbo T/A performance mods? - LS1TECH

[newb]

252/252?! I take it thats advertised?

[double0Si]

Originally Posted by newb

252/252?! I take it thats advertised?

Yea, heres the link. Hadnt checked specifics just heard it works well from a few builders.At .050" its 206 COMP Cams CL51-229-3 - COMP Cams High Energy Cam and Lifter Kits

[newb]

That looks like a good replacement. I dunno that Id "step up" to that if the original cam didnt need replaced though. Especially if Phily goes ahead with all the top end work.

Phily, have you considered any cams yet?

[double0Si]

Did you check out that LS1Tech link? Other than doing the usual port and polish/valvetrain mods I dont think theres much he can do. Other than changing out the brilliant marvel of engineering that is the Q-Jet its going to be hard to find anything he can afford. Unless he gets really lucky and has some good swap meet finds.

[philyphreak2127]

I have a holley carb that fits my intake manifold. Its small 650 double pumper that was rebuilt.

[double0Si]

Good call. That will make a huge difference (no joke.)

[newb]

Ya, ppl who bad mouth Holley, just dont know their way around a carb. Ive had 2 myself, and at first both of em sucked. After 10 bucks and an hour I had em dialed in perfect though. The only thing sucked about em, was how sensitive they were to changing weather. But, even then the most I had to do was adjust my idle mixture.

[philyphreak2127]

Good to hear. I have heard the same. That holley carbs are a pain. But I picked it up for a decent price. I wanted an edelbrock but budget doesn't allow such things. lol The holley was less than $100 so it was worth it. I have actually gotten good deals on just about everything I have gotten for the car. I guess that makes up for how much I paid for it ($1500) with how much work it needs done.