NSFW Some of that good old Muslim culture we should respect and tolerate

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Actaully my post was correcting your usage, Sharia and Jaafari are not exclusive. Sharia being Islamic law, and Jaafari being the twelver Shi'a branch of Islam.

I never confused your usage of Sharia with Shi'a the post states that even the most extreme Shi'a do not require the burka or niqab (face covering). It also goes onto dispute you definition of moderate because the Qur'an guarantees equal access to justice and the law for women and men.
 
Hello and welcome to the same old partisan crap. You know, you are responsible for most of this partisan name calling on HS (which so say you so hate...).

Lets see, your experience is all of 3 men you met in the Military. If this qualifies to you as any kind of cross section of opinion or culture then you really need a basic statistics class.

3 men, two were military one was an american citizen working overseas

and then a couple dozen people I met while living in the UK, the *moderate types* who don't live in the midde east, like to spit on white people for dating arab girls, and could be quoted as saying our country was evil and our president worships the devil

I also know a couple Muslims here but they don't strike me as particularly extreme in one way or another...

And you did claim that I had no experience and when I blew that up you then claimed my experience didn't count AND that is typical of fanatical far left nonsense speakers...

you live in Multnomah county don't you?
 
Actaully my post was correcting your usage, Sharia and Jaafari are not exclusive. Sharia being Islamic law, and Jaafari being the twelver Shi'a branch of Islam.

I never confused your usage of Sharia with Shi'a the post states that even the most extreme Shi'a do not require the burka or niqab (face covering). It also goes onto dispute you definition of moderate because the Qur'an guarantees equal access to justice and the law for women and men.

Ok, Miscommunication. We're on the same page with Shi'a and Sharia in general.

But then perhaps you can explain to me how Sharia cultures require coverings and unequal laws for women ?
 
I think that you are referring to Iran enforced Hijab. I am not sure how they justify it but there are Ayatollah's in Iran that disagree and use the Surah 2, 256 (No compulsion in religion) to support their claims. Many of the Iranians I know here are upset about the rule for 2 reasons. First it has made something religious into something political so the youth push against the government by not following the religious rule. And second they say that it destroys the meaning of Hijab for those that choose to wear it. It would be like the Mexican government mandating that everyone have a statue of Mary in their yard, it takes away from the religious meaning if everyone is forced to do it.
 
3 men, two were military one was an american citizen working overseas

and then a couple dozen people I met while living in the UK, the *moderate types* who don't live in the midde east, like to spit on white people for dating arab girls, and could be quoted as saying our country was evil and our president worships the devil

I also know a couple Muslims here but they don't strike me as particularly extreme in one way or another...

And you did claim that I had no experience and when I blew that up you then claimed my experience didn't count AND that is typical of fanatical far left nonsense speakers...

you live in Multnomah county don't you?
My problem is that you assume these behaviors are Islam rather than Arab/Persian/Afghani/Bangladeshi/etc. culture, or their upbringing, or anything else. Islam is the first assumption you make when you have no basis for thinking that.

The following are my own thought/theories and have very little in the way of facts to back them up, YMMV.
The population of people that claim to be Muslim in the UK scare me. But they are not solely to blame. It is wrong that they take from the Dole, live in government subsidized housing, and then bite the hand that feeds them. But in Europe they face a level of discrimination that Muslims here do not. For all of Europe's claims to be tolerant, they are very culture centric because they have cultures that have been established for more than 2 millennia. We don't have this here in the US so while Muslims face discrimination here (as do many groups), I don't believe that it is as ingrained in the US as in Europe. Again, there is little in the way of fact to back this, YMMV.
 
My problem is that you assume these behaviors are Islam rather than Arab/Persian/Afghani/Bangladeshi/etc. culture, or their upbringing, or anything else. Islam is the first assumption you make when you have no basis for thinking that.

As you construed my Anti-Islamic comments to be a personal attack against one or more people ?
 
You clearly target the people practicing Islam.
 
The population of people that claim to be Muslim in the UK scare me. But they are not solely to blame. It is wrong that they take from the Dole, live in government subsidized housing, and then bite the hand that feeds them.
This is about every European, muslim or not. Socialism breeds this sort of contempt.
But in Europe they face a level of discrimination that Muslims here do not. For all of Europe's claims to be tolerant, they are very culture centric because they have cultures that have been established for more than 2 millennia. We don't have this here in the US so while Muslims face discrimination here (as do many groups), I don't believe that it is as ingrained in the US as in Europe. Again, there is little in the way of fact to back this, YMMV.

Replace "Europe" with "The rest of the world". Europe, Africa, Japan (Oh... particularly Japan) south americans, Mexico, Canada - All are more racist than the US in practice, society, and employment.
 
I have even less experience with "the rest of the world" than I do in Europe so I didn't want to extend that far.
 
My problem is that you assume these behaviors are Islam rather than Arab/Persian/Afghani/Bangladeshi/etc. culture, or their upbringing, or anything else. Islam is the first assumption you make when you have no basis for thinking that.

The population of people that claim to be Muslim in the UK scare me. But they are not solely to blame.

I grouped these two statements because I can answer them together

They claimed they were Muslim, not me. I only took them on their word (they seemed pretty serious about it). You are again putting words in my mouth

And as a firm believer in personal responsibility they are solely to blame for their actions.
 
Sure, but you cannot discount social/political factors. Ultimately each individual is responsible for their own actions. Here is why I believe both parties are to blame in Europe (the parties being Muslims and non-Muslims). Europeans are extremely culture centric, they expect an immigrant to completely abandon their native culture and embrace the local. Look at the unemployment numbers from equally educated groups, and compare those that have been in country for many generations (and are "local") to those that are immigrant or first generation. The numbers show a big gap. I blame the Muslims because they wall themselves into exclusive communities and do not try to integrate without giving up their religion or culture. The reason I cite ingrained culture as a cause is the US does not have one because we are a country of mostly immigrants. The Muslims I know here do not feel that they are being pushed to abandon their religion or culture to be part of American society. All they have to do is learn the language and follow the laws.
 
blah

if you want to live in the UK you should assimilate just like we do in America (or just like we did before the Mexican/American immigration war, now we wave other nations flags and ban our own...)

In my experience (lived there for two years) so long as you commit yourself to being english they could give a right fuck as to what color/religion you are
 
That is the key, you have to "be English" which is exclusive to being anything else. Here in the US people can be American and Forni (meaning anything Foreign) as long they drop anything from Fornish that breaks the law here.

Edit: I just want to add that the above is in no way based on solid research. At worst it is complete jibberish and at best a social proposition with only ancedotal evidence to back it.
 
it's complete jibberish

they have the level of acceptance of other people in the UK that Dr King dreamed about

you are (as the English would say) Right off mate
 
Okay, except that you have the same level of proof I have to back yours. Anecdotal at best. For every story you have of "loving eachother" and "acceptance", I will show you unemployment numbers, scholarship opportunities, etc. that show an inherent bias against anyone that tries to be Britsh/French/Fornish and something else. And in the end none of it will prove anything because neither you nor I have the time or the desire to do all of the research required to prove anything here.

Note above that I do not place all of the blame on Europeans, simply that both sides involved have wronged each other. I am not sure why you are holding onto this (though I suspect it has something to do with those that are most like me are never wrong, but maybe not).
 
Okay, except that you have the same level of proof I have to back yours. Anecdotal at best. For every story you have of "loving each other" and "acceptance", I will show you unemployment numbers, scholarship opportunities, etc. that show an inherent bias against anyone that tries to be Britsh/French/Fornish and something else. And in the end none of it will prove anything because neither you nor I have the time or the desire to do all of the research required to prove anything here.

Note above that I do not place all of the blame on Europeans, simply that both sides involved have wronged each other. I am not sure why you are holding onto this (though I suspect it has something to do with those that are most like me are never wrong, but maybe not).

you don't have the desire because you know you're talking out your ass, period

I spent two years living in the UK, more then once I've had convo's with some of my African American friends about "wouldn't it be nice if our country was this way"

the more I talk to you the more I realize what an uneducated self believing fabricator of truth you are

go hold a "Bush is Hitler" sign up in front of PDX city call, congragufuckinglations, you have lost touch with reality
 
Right, and I should believe you why? So you lived in the UK for 2 years, the key here is probably stationed which automatically puts you into contact with people most like yourself. This is only the first problem with your "evidence", the next would be: did you ever go live among any other ethnic/religious/socio-economic group outside of your comfort zone? I don't know for sure, but I kinda doubt it.

I don't have the desire because, while social science can interest me, I don't into it enough to do hardcore academic work there.

As for you, we can all tell by reading you that you obviously have zero idea how to do anything like academic research because you ran into one group that has it better in the UK than the US you assume that all groups must. There is no support for your jump from case 1 to case n. That and the constant degeneration to name calling and kiddie behavior doesn't help the credibility department.
 
Airjockie did more with his "Stationing" than most immigrants to in a host society during their entire lives.

You don't know what he did during stationing.
 
word, I practically lived on the economy, every chance I had I was far enough away from the bast that everyone thought I was a tourist. and I had families I spent time with over there, all kinds of families cause I had a bunch of GF's too lol

but reality isn't his strong suit Cel, so that bit of info wasn't for him, I was just letting you know

EDIT: And you're right LS I never took humanities or Social Sciences in college

because I CLEP'ed both of them
 
I am open to any papers you might have published or any research you have done on this subject. Until then, your arguments are just as "disconnected" from reality as mine. I, at least, admit I don't have anything solid in each post where it is true.
 
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