Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

RoughKnight · 10-05-2009, 01:31 PM

Aside from all the motor problems i'm having, next next week is a autocross event and i've decided to go. I'm searched the forums and the best article I found close to my answers was Flat Foot Shifting, but this is not my complete case.

Story: Now in my city there is a place where every friday/saturday night all the tuners, muscles, euros, and every other car comes out to park, have a coffee and just talk to each other. So I see a teg and just started random conversation. He said he was gonna go up there as well. I checked out his car, asked him if I could go for a spin and he said sure. (Stock GSR w/ I/H/E thats it). So as i'm giving her some gas he asks me "why I drive like that?" I'm confused, and here is the lecture I got from him in short.

"Dude, when you race, you should have your pedal to the floor at all times except when you shift! That way the engine gets the most gas and can produce the most power at all times!" My dilemma starts here.

From all the cars i've red-light raced, I have barely EVER EVER threw my foot to the floor. I consider my acceleration technique to be curved; My foot goes down gradually as I 'feel' the car needs it to be father. Is this correct? On the way home I tried driving WOT but it just made alot of noise and didn't go anywhere. Maybe it has an effect on higher power-producing cars, but it doesn't seem to make a diff for me.

Any feedback?

reikoshea · 10-05-2009, 01:44 PM

Partly true and partly not. When i do AutoX any straight part of the course is WOT. Switching from WOT to braking and back to WOT over and over in a corner is the slow way around. The goal is to be smooth. Brake before the corner and try to get as close to the target speed as possible (pretty difficult to know what that is on your first run) then once you're in the corner keep constant (not Wide Open) throttle through to the apex and gradually go to WOT while exiting. If you hit a cone you know you pushed too hard. Upon exit though, WOT is highly advisable. In AutoX though you're probably going to be at WOT for maybe 3-4 seconds through the entire course just due to the size. Probably a good 5-6 times you'll have a half second WOT moment and then at the end there's generally a straight away so you can accelerate out there too.

RoughKnight · 10-05-2009, 01:54 PM

My car feels like after a corner, no matter what level of throttle I give it, it reacts the same. For example, I know the entry speed is 55kmh, I take wide, brake early so I can get the accel early on, turn in...Its at this point, when i'm just about to hit the apex, that I feel lost. Regardless of position, it just 'feels' the same. I'm gonna go to school in a bit, and try WOT'ing and just seeing if it makes a difference.

But the curved acceleration, is it slower in a sense? If the engine does not fire at full fuel and open throttle position, obviously its not at 100% efficiency. But if the motor itself cannot produce enough torque(i'm speculating here) to put the 100% efficency to good use, then will it just make alot of noise? I'm gonna do two kinds of launches and record them both on my phone. See how it goes.

Bobby17772 · 10-05-2009, 01:58 PM

what I've noticed when you start off (or lower rpm) if you gradually give it gas it'll perform better but once you hit higher rpm 4-5k and up..depending on what your power band is then floor it I've seen the most gains that way, but I guess it all really depends on how much power the car has and other variables

reikoshea · 10-05-2009, 02:16 PM

Well i can tell you there is definitely more torque at WOT in the s2k. If i feather the throttle its fine on a 45+ degree turn, but if i were to give it full gas at or before the apex of a turn id be backwards in second gear, possibly in third. might just feel that way cause you're in a FWD car and at < 150 HP you're not really too worried about losing the back end. understeer is the big worry and at 55kph understeer is a minor issue that can easily be fixed by letting off the gas.

double0Si · 10-05-2009, 02:47 PM

Like Reikoshia said be smooth as possible. Don't just stab at the throttle/brakes and jerk the wheel. Brake before you enter the turn, find your ideal speed and hold it there while making the turn, and as you are returning your wheel back to center give it an equal increase of throttle until you can get it to WOT without breaking the tires loose. Think of it as though there is a set of pulleys and string attached to your steering wheel, brake pedal, and gas pedal that causes you to return the wheel to center as you're throttle/braking increases. It would also cause you to lift off your brake/throttle as you turn the wheel. You shouldn't ever have any two of them at 100% at a given time. If you are in a situation where you need to be fully turning the wheel, braking at that same time takes away from your cars ability to turn. This is because any stress you are putting on your tires (towards maximum grip achievable before braking them loose) from cornering is taking away from what can be used for accelerating/braking. And visa versa. In that same respect, as you had thought that gradually increasing throttle would be better than mashing it would be correct from a standstill. Any wheelspin caused by over-powering the tires is wasted energy that could be used for accelerating. Burnouts look cool but take you nowhere. You want to send as much power to your tires as they can handle. Any more or less and your losing time. You'll find that sweet spot in the pedal travel with time and practice. Good luck. Have fun. Be safe.

RoughKnight · 10-05-2009, 02:59 PM

^ Will do. Got most of what I wanted out of the thread. I guess i'll re-ask the question once I get a few more ponies under my hood. It looks like WOT or not, my civic just doesn't have the power to make a big diff at WOT. Although on my way to school, I had quite an interesting run with the new Ford Taurus AWD. Quick little buggers, but no match for a school bus mwuahahahaha. I'll post it if there is sufficient interest. He got what he deserved, no less.

TurboRex90 · 10-05-2009, 09:31 PM

i wanna hear ^

RoughKnight · 10-05-2009, 10:28 PM

^ Done and done.

boostin4fun · 10-06-2009, 01:00 AM

I am with the OP on this one. My cars always pull harder when I roll into the throttle rather then pinning it. I have found this especially true on my boosted car, if you dont roll into the throttle the right way it does not pull as hard. There really is more to it then grabbing the next gear and putting it to the floor. The way I see it is once you have enough time behind the wheel of your car you know how to hit it to get the most out of it.

caboose · 10-06-2009, 01:14 AM

Your engine will make the most power at WOT, because this is where your throttle body is completely open, letting the engine get as much air as possible. For drag racing, the only time that you would not want to be at WOT is if you are breaking the tires loose.

Heck, some people will keep their foot flat on the floor even when they shift (WOT Shifting). Kinda hard on your equipment if you ask me, i stick to quick granny shifts, but every little bit helps i guess.

For autox, you want to ease into the throttle while exiting a turn, and give it as much gas as you can before you have grip issues

boostin4fun · 10-06-2009, 01:37 AM

I think everyone is going to have their own opinion on this. I dont agree with other people on this one. My advice is to get the feel of your car and make the decision for yourself. Better yet if you are someone who visits the track frequently, make a few runs and see what gets you a better time. If rolling into the throttle gets you a better time then WOT going into each gear, then you will know definetly the answer to this question.

B · 10-06-2009, 07:48 AM

The truth of the matter is that your d15b doesn't make any power, and thus flooring it is basically the same as part throttle. lol

In a higher power car, there is actually a distinct difference between 3/4 and full throttle that you likely don't feel.

In ANY type of racing, the goal is to give it as much throttle as possible without breaking traction and retaining a smooth drive line.

Remember, slow in, fast out. Do your breaking ahead of time, and be on the gas by mid corner to pull out quick. "dive bombing" into gates is usually the slowest way.

RoughKnight · 10-06-2009, 10:15 AM

^ Thats what I figured. I study some of the various apex theories in my spare time, for now i'm just working on "early out" considering my car doesn't have enough juice to exit late. Well i'll put it too the test and stay off the streets.

INJEN78 · 10-06-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B

The truth of the matter is that your d15b doesn't make any power, and thus flooring it is basically the same as part throttle. lol

In a higher power car, there is actually a distinct difference between 3/4 and full throttle that you likely don't feel.

In ANY type of racing, the goal is to give it as much throttle as possible without breaking traction and retaining a smooth drive line.

Remember, slow in, fast out. Do your breaking ahead of time, and be on the gas by mid corner to pull out quick. "dive bombing" into gates is usually the slowest way.

this is correct..
you do not want to be breaking through the corner..you want to brake into it and about mid way be slightly onto the gas..as you are going from apex to exit you will want to be accelerating out.then you should be at WOT coming out of the corner..
i learned best in my circle track racing..

RoughKnight · 10-06-2009, 12:07 PM

I'm trying to work on getting enough of a curve to get on the throttle just before the apex, if only partially, so I can smash it earlier. Braking earlier yes, but it does lead to better times for underpowered cars.

10-05-2009, 01:31 PM	#1
RoughKnight Christmas Car Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ont Age: 21 Posts: 350 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 93 4dr D15B, Greddy Short Ram, 4-2-1 Header, 2.5" Exhaust. Rep Power: 8	WOT or Curved Acceleration? Aside from all the motor problems i'm having, next next week is a autocross event and i've decided to go. I'm searched the forums and the best article I found close to my answers was Flat Foot Shifting, but this is not my complete case. Story: Now in my city there is a place where every friday/saturday night all the tuners, muscles, euros, and every other car comes out to park, have a coffee and just talk to each other. So I see a teg and just started random conversation. He said he was gonna go up there as well. I checked out his car, asked him if I could go for a spin and he said sure. (Stock GSR w/ I/H/E thats it). So as i'm giving her some gas he asks me "why I drive like that?" I'm confused, and here is the lecture I got from him in short. "Dude, when you race, you should have your pedal to the floor at all times except when you shift! That way the engine gets the most gas and can produce the most power at all times!" My dilemma starts here. From all the cars i've red-light raced, I have barely EVER EVER threw my foot to the floor. I consider my acceleration technique to be curved; My foot goes down gradually as I 'feel' the car needs it to be father. Is this correct? On the way home I tried driving WOT but it just made alot of noise and didn't go anywhere. Maybe it has an effect on higher power-producing cars, but it doesn't seem to make a diff for me. Any feedback? __________________ Please direct your questions in the following format. 1) Did I search it on Google? 2) Did I use the search function in the TOP RIGHT AREA of this page? 3) Refer to Step 1 and 2. If that doesn't work, then feel free to post.

10-05-2009, 01:54 PM	#3
RoughKnight Christmas Car Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ont Age: 21 Posts: 350 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 93 4dr D15B, Greddy Short Ram, 4-2-1 Header, 2.5" Exhaust. Rep Power: 8	My car feels like after a corner, no matter what level of throttle I give it, it reacts the same. For example, I know the entry speed is 55kmh, I take wide, brake early so I can get the accel early on, turn in...Its at this point, when i'm just about to hit the apex, that I feel lost. Regardless of position, it just 'feels' the same. I'm gonna go to school in a bit, and try WOT'ing and just seeing if it makes a difference. But the curved acceleration, is it slower in a sense? If the engine does not fire at full fuel and open throttle position, obviously its not at 100% efficiency. But if the motor itself cannot produce enough torque(i'm speculating here) to put the 100% efficency to good use, then will it just make alot of noise? I'm gonna do two kinds of launches and record them both on my phone. See how it goes. __________________ Please direct your questions in the following format. 1) Did I search it on Google? 2) Did I use the search function in the TOP RIGHT AREA of this page? 3) Refer to Step 1 and 2. If that doesn't work, then feel free to post.

10-05-2009, 02:59 PM	#7
RoughKnight Christmas Car Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ont Age: 21 Posts: 350 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 93 4dr D15B, Greddy Short Ram, 4-2-1 Header, 2.5" Exhaust. Rep Power: 8	^ Will do. Got most of what I wanted out of the thread. I guess i'll re-ask the question once I get a few more ponies under my hood. It looks like WOT or not, my civic just doesn't have the power to make a big diff at WOT. Although on my way to school, I had quite an interesting run with the new Ford Taurus AWD. Quick little buggers, but no match for a school bus mwuahahahaha. I'll post it if there is sufficient interest. He got what he deserved, no less. __________________ Please direct your questions in the following format. 1) Did I search it on Google? 2) Did I use the search function in the TOP RIGHT AREA of this page? 3) Refer to Step 1 and 2. If that doesn't work, then feel free to post.

10-05-2009, 10:28 PM	#9
RoughKnight Christmas Car Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ont Age: 21 Posts: 350 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 93 4dr D15B, Greddy Short Ram, 4-2-1 Header, 2.5" Exhaust. Rep Power: 8	^ Done and done. __________________ Please direct your questions in the following format. 1) Did I search it on Google? 2) Did I use the search function in the TOP RIGHT AREA of this page? 3) Refer to Step 1 and 2. If that doesn't work, then feel free to post.

10-06-2009, 01:00 AM	#10
boostin4fun Boosted ls/vtec ohh yeah! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Omaha Age: 23 Posts: 805 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: EM1 EBP boosted ls/vtec, EM1 EBP Daily Driver Rep Power: 18	I am with the OP on this one. My cars always pull harder when I roll into the throttle rather then pinning it. I have found this especially true on my boosted car, if you dont roll into the throttle the right way it does not pull as hard. There really is more to it then grabbing the next gear and putting it to the floor. The way I see it is once you have enough time behind the wheel of your car you know how to hit it to get the most out of it. __________________ My build threads: http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...c-build-84953/ http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...inished-92905/ I offer ecu socketing/chipping, tuning, swaps, and builds. PM me for details and pricing.


Welcome, Guest! Please Register or Login: User Name Password Members have access to more features, better search, and see fewer ads! It's free, what are you waiting for?

10-05-2009, 01:58 PM	#4
Bobby17772 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Enfield, CT Age: 19 Posts: 375 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 1991 civic hatch dx Rep Power: 5	what I've noticed when you start off (or lower rpm) if you gradually give it gas it'll perform better but once you hit higher rpm 4-5k and up..depending on what your power band is then floor it I've seen the most gains that way, but I guess it all really depends on how much power the car has and other variables

10-06-2009, 01:14 AM	#11
caboose I still know everything Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Hamilton, MI Age: 21 Posts: 414 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 89 CRX HF, 96 Accord EX, 88 Dodge Daytona Shelbyz T-tops Rep Power: 18	Your engine will make the most power at WOT, because this is where your throttle body is completely open, letting the engine get as much air as possible. For drag racing, the only time that you would not want to be at WOT is if you are breaking the tires loose. Heck, some people will keep their foot flat on the floor even when they shift (WOT Shifting). Kinda hard on your equipment if you ask me, i stick to quick granny shifts, but every little bit helps i guess. For autox, you want to ease into the throttle while exiting a turn, and give it as much gas as you can before you have grip issues __________________ Formerly the.original.kermit Back from the dead... twice I NEED PARTS!!! http://hondaswap.com/parts-sale-trade-wanted/wtb-1989-crx-parts-161172/#post1079066 Check out my progress... http://hondaswap.com/auto-multi-media/my-1989-crx-project-144941/ Last edited by caboose; 10-06-2009 at 01:18 AM.

10-06-2009, 01:37 AM	#12
boostin4fun Boosted ls/vtec ohh yeah! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Omaha Age: 23 Posts: 805 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: EM1 EBP boosted ls/vtec, EM1 EBP Daily Driver Rep Power: 18	I think everyone is going to have their own opinion on this. I dont agree with other people on this one. My advice is to get the feel of your car and make the decision for yourself. Better yet if you are someone who visits the track frequently, make a few runs and see what gets you a better time. If rolling into the throttle gets you a better time then WOT going into each gear, then you will know definetly the answer to this question. __________________ My build threads: http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...c-build-84953/ http://hondaswap.com/engine-building...inished-92905/ I offer ecu socketing/chipping, tuning, swaps, and builds. PM me for details and pricing.

10-06-2009, 10:15 AM	#14
RoughKnight Christmas Car Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ont Age: 21 Posts: 350 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 93 4dr D15B, Greddy Short Ram, 4-2-1 Header, 2.5" Exhaust. Rep Power: 8	^ Thats what I figured. I study some of the various apex theories in my spare time, for now i'm just working on "early out" considering my car doesn't have enough juice to exit late. Well i'll put it too the test and stay off the streets. __________________ Please direct your questions in the following format. 1) Did I search it on Google? 2) Did I use the search function in the TOP RIGHT AREA of this page? 3) Refer to Step 1 and 2. If that doesn't work, then feel free to post.

10-06-2009, 12:07 PM	#16
RoughKnight Christmas Car Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ont Age: 21 Posts: 350 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 93 4dr D15B, Greddy Short Ram, 4-2-1 Header, 2.5" Exhaust. Rep Power: 8	I'm trying to work on getting enough of a curve to get on the throttle just before the apex, if only partially, so I can smash it earlier. Braking earlier yes, but it does lead to better times for underpowered cars. __________________ Please direct your questions in the following format. 1) Did I search it on Google? 2) Did I use the search function in the TOP RIGHT AREA of this page? 3) Refer to Step 1 and 2. If that doesn't work, then feel free to post.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
acceleration problem...	slimtdx	HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC	2	06-28-2007 09:26 PM
Smoke during acceleration	grod_07	General Tech and Maintenance	15	06-01-2007 08:50 PM
H22 Slow Acceleration	Naz	Accord	10	03-12-2007 01:06 PM
acceleration stumble	PLA5151	General Tech and Maintenance	0	07-16-2006 01:50 PM
acceleration problems	chap_e77	General Tech and Maintenance	6	09-04-2003 02:13 PM

Hondaswap.com | Honda Technical & JDM styling Forums

WOT or Curved Acceleration?