1985 Civic Hatch DX EW1...

[NSXguy]

This is my first post on this site. First off, let me say that I have been doing extensive research on this site and others (honda-tech, redpepperracing, ZCR, ...) about Honda engine swaps. Lots of good information, but also many confusing things. For one, the ZC engines. I've learnt what they mean and all, but still not clear which one would be the best candidate for my hatch. W/ re: other engines, they all seem to require Fuel Injection (my hatch is still carb'd). I've also used the search function, and could find a lot of info, but never really for my particular application (3G carb'd DX)
Let me give you some background, so that you can help me out...
I got this hatch from my neighbord who bought it new back in 1985. The car was in very good condition, until recently the cam gear broke off the cam. The current engine is a EW1. Needless to say, the valves are shot. My plans for this little bugger is convert it into an AutoXer that will be hauled around (not street driven) to SCCA and NASA events. Right now, I have 3 options I'm debating throughout:
#1- KISS (keep it simple stupid): any carb'd engine that will be a basic drop off withoutany major wiring and/or custom mounts. Seems the D16A1, D15B, SOHC ZC are good candidates.
#2- The "I've got one too": B16A, B18C1 swaps, many good info. Very tough to get one in good condition/price as they seem to get snatched up pretty fast. Also don't know if I'm willing to put all the effort and time right now for such a swap.
#3- The B20B way: seems the best choice for Turbo down the road (low compression, cheap, available) which would require probably as much work and effort than with the other B swaps. But I'm more motivated to go that way if I'm going to mess with mounts and wirings.

Please advice me on several issues. First of all, am I correct in what I've stated/understood so far. If not, please point out what I have misunderstood. Secondly, please advice on what combo would be best for autoXing if yourself have such experience.

thank you in advance
Alex

 

[NSXguy]

bump

 

[reckedracing]

ok, where to begin...

pretty much any motor swap is gonna require you to switch over to MPFI, and being that you have a carb'ed car this is not really something you wanna do...

in my opinion you're better off finding something/anything thats already multi port fuel injected, it will make it so much easier and much less work, as well as less expensive...

your car also has torsion bars in the front so if you're looking to be very competative you might want to consider moving up to a 88-91 with better suspension...

the D16A1 from an integra is a bolt in affair for this car...
which is good, but you will still have to convert everything over to fuel injection... which is bad...

some of the SOHC ZC's from japan come with carbs, but the drivers side mount bolts to the side of the block instead of the front of the block, so mounting the motor in the car will have issues, but you won;t need to worry about converting to fuel injection...

my advice is to upgrade the chassis, sounds like you're planning on spending some decent money so get a better starting point...

 

[reckedracing]

https://hondaswap.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29805

read through this FAQ...

 

[reckedracing]

if you decide to go with this chassis hit me back with swap questions...
i dropped a D16A1 into my 86 crx si...

(and i love it)
believe it or not i can keep up with a GSR pretty well until higher speeds...

 

[NSXguy]

thanks for your replies. I had already read this FAQ somewhere (not sure if it was on this site). Where did you get your D16A1 ? Did you also have to swap the transmission btw ? I plan on keeping this chassis from now. I just want to evaluate the car's potential first however, before moving to a different engine and/or chassis. So far I've been autoXing my NSX in C class which is quite competitive and lots of fun. But I've also been proven over and over again that what I really need to upgrade is the driver. That's where the hatch comes in, as a trainer for 1/20th the expenses of the NSX.
For the moment, I'd like to keep it as simple as possible first. Then, maybe upgrade the engine with Fuel Injection or even a different engine (B series). Thanks again for your support.

 

[reckedracing]

i got my D16A1 from a friend who had an integra...

the story goes like this... the car had an auto tranny that shit the bed... they tried a civic auto tranny, didn't fit, then they tried an auto tranny from a 88-89 integra, didn't fit...
so i picked up the whole car pretty cheap, i tried to use a d series trans with no luck, and i tried to use my EW4 trans from my crx si with no luck also...
i ended up getting a 5 speed from a junkyard out of an 87 integra...

i guess the 86 and 87 integra motors/trans are not like the rest of the d series motors/trans... the header is the same as other d series, just the engine trans are diffrent... doesn't make any sense to me...

i also need the clutch/flywheel, axles, and spindles/discs/calipers...

the discs and calipers make for a nice cheap big brake upgrade too...
but you might need larger tires...

ok, so for now you wanna keep the stock motor/trans? or you're thinking about swapping? not sure what hp the carb'ed model had, but i know the CRX si had about 93 stock, and the integra motor has 115 stock...
86-87 integra ecu is a nice upgrade, along with the vacuum advanced distributor, but these are all for fuel injected cars...

fuel injection is really whats holding you back right now...
i would try and put your carb on the EW4 motor from a CRX and see what happens, i have 2 crx si drivetrains laying around if you want one cheap...

not sure what else to tell you...
you can try and shave the head down to boost compression for a little kick... or you could try and do a custom junk yard turbo setup... not sure how that would go with the carb but i'm sure you can re-jet it...

any other questions?

turbo would kick you into a diffrent class right??
port and polish would prob be a huge plus on that head you have... maybe you could use an EW4 cam in your motor too??

 

[reckedracing]

EW1 = D15A2 right??

58hp??

 

[NSXguy]

Originally posted by reckedracing+Mar 25 2005, 09:43 PM-->

ok, so for now you wanna keep the stock motor/trans? or you're thinking about swapping?  not sure what hp the carb'ed model had, but i know the CRX si had about 93 stock, and the integra motor has 115 stock...

EW1 has 76 hp.

Originally posted by reckedracing@Mar 25 2005, 09:43 PM
fuel injection is really whats holding you back right now...

Not really. If I can get the entire donor car (engine, drivetrain, ECU, wiring harness, etc...) I am not afraid of doing such a swap. The fact of having a carb'd chassis is just limiting my choices right now.

Originally posted by reckedracing@Mar 25 2005, 09:43 PM
i would try and put your carb on the EW4 motor from a CRX and see what happens, i have 2 crx si drivetrains laying around if you want one cheap...

Never heard of such a hybrid work. Do you know if that would work ? where are you located and how much $$$ is cheap ? (pm me w/ details)

Originally posted by reckedracing@Mar 25 2005, 09:43 PM
not sure what else to tell you...
any other questions?
turbo would kick you into a diffrent class right??
port and polish would prob be a huge plus on that head you have... maybe you could use an EW4 cam in your motor too??

[post=478774]Quoted post[/post]​

you've been pretty helpful allright. I will already be pushed a class up (SM something) by doing any swap. But Turbo and Carb'd is not something I want to be tuning btw.

reckedracing@Mar 25 2005, 09:43 PM
EW1 = D15A2 right??

58hp??

Not quite, although many people refer to these as equivalent... The only facts I know for sure are that the 84-87 1.5 liter motors were EW engines. EW4 was the FI 1.5 in the Si with 91 hp. EW3 was the Carbed 1.5 of 92 hp. The EW2 was the 1.3 Carbed car (58 hp) and EW1 was the Carbed 1.5 of 76 hp (mine).
What I believe is that EW3 = D15A1 and EW2= D15A2. Don't know what EW4 and EW1 are.

 

[reckedracing]

Not really. If I can get the entire donor car (engine, drivetrain, ECU, wiring harness, etc...) I am not afraid of doing such a swap. The fact of having a carb'd chassis is just limiting my choices right now.

a donor car sitting next to your chassis is the way to do it...
i'd go with a 86-87 teg donor...
lots of upgrades for very cheap...
you will love the twin cam power from the D16A1, trust me on this one...
LOVE IT...
redline of 7200 i believe...
big brakes are awesome too...
but if you use the teg spindles you will need an alignment in a serious way...

Never heard of such a hybrid work. Do you know if that would work ? where are you located and how much $$$ is cheap ? (pm me w/ details)

to be honest i have no idea if it would work or not... i was just trying to brain storm for some ideas to get your car faster...
i don't even know that anyone has ever tried it...

ve been pretty helpful allright. I will already be pushed a class up (SM something) by doing any swap. But Turbo and Carb'd is not something I want to be tuning btw.

tuning? no
lol
drill to the jet, yes...
i would just dump massive amounts of fuel and hope it doesn't pop...

what would you do about vacuum advanced distributor with boost...
something i have been contemplating recently
lol

 

[NSXguy]

thanks. what's a "teg" btw ?

 

[reckedracing]

integra

 

[Citizen_Insane]

Just to interject a second opinion on the matter...

I feel that it is a waste of time and money to swap anything into that car. If you swap anything but an engine that came stock in that car, you will be pushed to one of the pro-classes in AutoX (I'm not sure what they are called, but i know you can't compete in any stock classes with a b-swapped civic ).

My suggestion is that you either get another stock engine from that car and put some performance parts on it.

or (and better yet)

Get an 88-91 CRX Si, put a good suspension setup on it and call it a day. You can get a decently running (but not so pretty) CRX for about $1000. Put another $1000 in suspension and you have a great performaning stock-class AutoX car.

 

[Jeef]

If you don't want to go to FI see if the carb manifold will botl up to any other engines.
Talk to airkjockie, he is probably the most knowledgable 3rd gen guy on here.

 

[Airjockie]

Simple...

Mega sqirt, ITBs, and ZC.....

or go webber/solex...

torsion bars are better..IMHO..and read up on RPR as much as you can....

you can prolly play around with a blow thru turbo carb.....


options are limitless.....

 

[baker423]

Lots of D series info @
www.d-series.org
I learned and read up on quite few things there as well.

 

[NSXguy]

Nevermind my questions on the D16xxx engines. I just won an auction for a B20B engine still mounted in a CRV which was damaged during a roll over accident. I know it's going to be a tight fit, but it has been done before. Plus that engine's low end torque and low compression by design will be perfect for a low-boost setup for autoX.

Anyone knows for sure if the mounts for the B20B engine the same as in every B series ?

Alex

 

[racintweek]

D16A1 engine and trans, and all the spindles and that shit

keep it carb'd, some weber side draughts and a set of cams are the way to go

 

[reckedracing]

the B20's from the CRV are the same mount setups as other B series...
its the late 80's early 90's prelude B20 thats the complete odd ball...

how much did you pay for the CRV?
those motor go for like 700 bucks...
and i'm pretty sure you're gonna need a diffrent trans...

 

[NSXguy]

Originally posted by reckedracing@Mar 29 2005, 11:56 AM
the B20's from the CRV are the same mount setups as other B series...
its the late 80's early 90's prelude B20 thats the complete odd ball...

how much did you pay for the CRV?
those motor go for like 700 bucks...
and i'm pretty sure you're gonna need a diffrent trans...

[post=480237]Quoted post[/post]​

$765.31

the CRV is complete, with everything still on it. I will need tranny, headers, intake and axles. But by the time I sell all the parts I do not need (tranny, AWD, seats, misc interior and misc electronics), I'll probably even make a buck or two.