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2000 EK Hatch With OBDI B16a In Progress...

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by matto52, Dec 3, 2003.

  1. matto52

    matto52 Junior Member

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    Hello guys, this is my first post to the site here. I wish I had found it earlier. If anyone could provide some insight on my situation, I would greatly appreciate it!

    Fist off the car is a 2000 Cheese-ball basic DX Hatch, and I have already installed the Jap (read unknow year/origin) B16a, trans, axles, etc. I retro fitted the stock DX harness to the OBDI motor by changing the IACV plug and filleted the harness to gain access to the sensors on the new motor b/c the strange DX arrangement made the harness short in many areas. I noticed the B16a distributor had a different plug (a 9-pin connector) while the stock DX dist had a newer 8 pin connector. To solve this fitment issue, I completely switched ALL internals of the distributors to basically put the B16a distributor housing on the motor with the DX obdII internals to mate with the wiring harness. I am running only the front O2 sensor at the end of a cheap DC header. I am using the DX MAP and purge, but the rest of the sensors are from the B16a motor...

    ALL of my wiring mods so far were done with the intent of running my OBDII to OBDI conversion harness from JDM honda parts and chipped OBDI ecu.

    The only problem is, the motor will not start! There is spark, and the spark plugs looked wet (though I did not smell much gas). No fuses are blown, all plugs are connected, and the fuel pump is coming on. It just turns over and over; maybe a small pop at most, but certainly not trying to catch up and run on its own.

    I am not quite sure where to go next with this. The questions I have deal with the differing sensor and harness provisions. I have a feeling the extra wire in the B16a distributor is needed but the internals I put in there are the 8 wire DX coil and sensors. Do I need to run an external wire somewhere? **ALSO** The motor that I just installed has a weird VTEC solenoid on it!!! It lacks the pressure sensor on the side of the solenoid assembly. Please excuse my ignorance, but I have never seen one of these. How will this affect the car and my wiring when the car does run???

    I am at the end of my pathetic little rope with this trouble shooting. I am just glad I found this site with a bunch of knowledgible people! If I am missing anything, please send a suggestion my way. ANY help or info will be used and appreciated. Thanks for reading and for you time! matto :worthy:
     
  2. matto52

    matto52 Junior Member

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    Anyone had similars problems with their swap???? I cannot find the exact info I need with the search. Again, I have compression, spark, timing is correct, etc. Any ideas on what to check next? Thanks again! matto
     
  3. noobvang

    noobvang Senior Member

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    You best option is to just use a OBDII dist.

    If everything is wired correctly, this should only be the known problem.
     
  4. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    your plugs look wet?



    okay....



    1. did you put new plugs in

    from time to time, the japs have been known to pressure wash the engines for some reason (which also causes the wierd dried-water-shit look on the block). when i got my motor, there was a little water in the plug holes. ive seen this on several other jdm motors. if that's the case, youre gonna have to pull the motor and flip it upside down (unless you wanna get a long straw).

    if you didnt put new plugs in....you should've


    2. distributor

    also, im guessing that you most likely fucked somethin up in your dizzy. just get an obd2 distributor. seriously, this is gonna be the simpleist (sp?) thing that'll work. that way, if something is still wrong, you'll KNOW it isnt your dizzy.

    3. grounds

    check ALL your grounds. if you already checked them, check them again. a loose or disconnected ground wire can cause all sorts of trouble.

    4. bad karma

    is your car still on the jackstands? i have NEVER been able to start a car after a swap while it is still on jackstands. i dont know why.

    5. you're fucked anyways

    you're like the third person i've ever met that's even attempted this swap. sell it and buy a b16a2 from a 99-00 si before youre in too deep.



    :blink:


    your best bet:

    STOP. buy an obd2 intake manifold, alternator, distributor, 99-00 Si wiring harness (or 99-00 dx harness and add the vtec and knock sensor wires), and a 99-00 Si P2T ecu. everything will plug in and youll be MUCH happier.

    that and it won't look hacked.
     
  5. Iquark

    Iquark Senior Member

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    Dude, you're being a little hard on him, he might not of known... Anyways, I think since you are basically doing an obd2 to obd 1 conversion, you have to have the OBD 1 Distributer, to go with the obd 1 ECU. Now if you go with OBD2, then you will need an OBD 2 EcU and dizzy. The problem probably is your distributer, and your wiring, have you checked hybrid-honda for the wire diagrams? Let us know how it wroked out.
     
  6. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    you misunderstand my sense of humor




    not tryin to be mean here.
     
  7. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    oh, and if you wire it right you can use whatever distributor with whatever ecu. it's all in the wiring
     
  8. matto52

    matto52 Junior Member

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    Hey guys, thanks for the replies!

    The reason I did not keep the car OBDII to begin with was b/c the company I bought the swap from screwed me. I ordered a COMPLETE drop it OBDII swap, but it showed up with cutting torched axles mounts and linkages, completely destroyed harness, and above all, it was OBDI! Instead of getting an oil pump, crank sensor, OBDII dist, intake mani, etc, I just decided to get the jumper harness and use an obdI ecu I have.

    Now, everything is all mis-matched but I really have done no wire mods to prohibit the car from at least stumbling over a few times. The only physical mod to wiring done has been to convert the OBDII IACV 3-pin plug to the 2-pin to mate to the B16a. I just cut and soldered the two like wires, and the third yellow one I think is just doing nothing. For clarification, I installed the OBDI dist on the motor, but with the DX OBDII internals. I did this b/c it was easy to do( just remove the key that rides in the cam and unscrew everything else and it pulls right out cleanly), and b/c I wanted the wiring harness to stay factory. Plus, like I said before, the obdI ECU had a larger 9-wire plug, while the obdII has 8. I have looked on the hybrid site, but they only have ecu pin outs. What is that extra wire in the OBDI internals? The obdI distr also has beefier blue and black wires too. I did all of this b/c I was using the jumper harness to get the wiring to the OBDI ecu and not have a problem with there being no Crank Fluctuation sensor or 2nd O2.

    With all that said, do any of you think my problem lies with not having a crank sensor to send a signal to the jumper harness and ultimately the obd1 ecu? Eventhough there is a jumper harness in there, if there is no signal coming from the crank to convert to OBDI, then that could be the prob??!!! For a reference, I looked at the extra wire in the ODBI dist plug but it does not match any of the three wires at the crank sensor plug. Is there an extra sensor in an obdI distributor that an obdII dist would not have b/c of the signal the ecu gets from the crank sensor???????

    Last question, have any of you seen a VTEC valve body WITHOUT the vtec pressure sensor in it? If so, how do you go about satisfying the ecu with that signal it should be getting?

    Thanks for all the help guys!!!! I have looked everywhere, but this seems like the spot to be for real tech help. :worthy:

    matto...
     
  9. Iquark

    Iquark Senior Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone, but without the crankangle sensor, the motor won't turn over will it?
     
  10. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    dont believe so. obd0/1 motors didn't have a crank angle sensor.


    if you use an obd2 ecu with an obd1/0 motor, it'll just throw a code for the CAS, but it'll still run fine.


    also, i dont understand what youre saying about your vtec solenoid...pics maybe?


    i still think the problem probably lies in the distributor, man.
     
  11. Iquark

    Iquark Senior Member

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    Def. agree with you on that one now that I think about it. I'm just getting confused with all the different OBD's of this guys different parts. Def. has to be one of the wierdest swaps to do...
     
  12. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    sorry to threadjack, but why do you have a b16 head on a b18c block?
     
  13. 1sikEH2

    1sikEH2 Member

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    Heres the deal bro. If you are running the obd1 engine and using the obd2 dx harness all you have to do is add the 3 vtec wires and the knock wire. Then what you really need to get is an obd2 vtec dizzy. I have one if you would like to buy. I am getting the feeling why your shit wont start is because you either left one wire of the Crank Angle sensor out or flipped the two.
    If you dont get a oil pressure unit on the side of that vtec solenoid you are gonna spit mad oil out. Not to mention you wont have vtec.
     
  14. matto52

    matto52 Junior Member

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    Thanks again for the replies!! Civ, the motor is all B16a. I may have typed something all crazy before, but it is a Jap b16.

    Here is a pic of that VTEC solenoid that I just took. Notice that the actual vtec solenoid has a wire going to it for activation. The sensor that is missing is the one that comes out horizontally from the assembly. You can even see where the bung for it is, but it is completely blocked off inside of the hole where it would thread in??? I thought something looked different when I received the motor, but it did not click until I was rerouting the DX wiring to accomodate the B16a.

    Do you guys get what I talking about with the distributors though? I could get a 99 Si distr, but wouldn't it have the same 8-pin connector and internals as the DX OBDII one???? It is basically all stll the same now except the coil, resistor, and the pick ups are all in the B16a dist so it would bolt up to the motor (DX unit has diff bolt pattern as you all know). I think I need to figure out what that 9th wire was maybe??????

    Oh yeah, when I said the plugs were wet before, I meant they were wet with fuel. Also, I cracked the fuel loose a little at the rail and turn the key ON to see verify the pump coming on. I also put the test light on the injector to see if they were pulsing and they were. They fuel system seems to be fully operational. Can I run the B16A injectors??? I would not think they would be any different.

    Getting back to the spark, I pulled the plug wires and arched them while turning the key; I saw arch so I guess I have spark. The car has open header so I can hear when the motor tries to fire. I usually get a good backfire at times, which sounds like the timing is off, but it is dead on.

    Check out that pic and please let me know what you think about that and the other probs. You guys rip; thanks again for all the help!!!!! matto

    This is an edit addition...thanks for the reply 1sikEH; I know it should be that simple. All my other swaps have been cake with no problem or codes. What were you talking about the CAS wires??? Since my motor does not have the sensor the connector for it on the wiring harness is jsut hanging there doing nothing. Should I have done something with the wires???? I thought the jumper harness might let me get by without messing with the crank sensor wiring. Any info would rule....

    My Webpage
     
  15. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    its gotta be something with your dist. by the symtoms you say you have. the 99si dist will work with that motor.
     
  16. 1sikEH2

    1sikEH2 Member

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    im gonna go check my dizzy out really quick for ya.

    About the vtec solenoid. it looks like its been welded up. if it has you might wanna take off the valve cover and make sure your engine doesnt have vtec-killer cams or a roller-rocker setup.

    **update: i have 9 wires on my dizzy**
     
  17. driver1

    driver1 Senior Member

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    i beleive cinicious was asking Iquark about his motor listed in his sig about the b16 head on the b18c block thats why he said "Sorry to threadjack"
     
  18. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    please tell me that all that liquid is not fuel.


    yup...this is what youre missing:
    [​IMG]


    edit: and yeah, i was askin' quarky about his sig
     
  19. matto52

    matto52 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the replies guys!

    1sikEH2, thanks for checking out your dizzy. If yours has 9-wires, how does it connect to your OBDII harness? My 2000 DX only has 8 pin connector. Does the 99 SI dizzy have 9 wires, but with two going into the same pin on an 8 wire connector??? Also, when you told me to check for vtec killerz etc, I just ran and checked my VTEC assembly again. If you look closely, you will see that the bung for the sensor is completely blocked (smooth cast finish like the rest of the aluminum) and does not even have factory threads to put a sensor there if I had one. Check out the pics below of the dizzy plugs and the VTEC solenoid....

    OBDI Dizzy plug 9 pins...
    [​IMG]

    OBDII dizz 8 wires...
    [​IMG]
    OBDII #2...
    [​IMG]

    Lack of VTEC press sensor....
    [​IMG]

    civicious...Thanks a mill for your pic. Your set up is exactly what I am used to seeing, but mine is whack. Oh, that was not fuel in the pic; it was just raining.

    Sorry for the big pics!!!

    Thank you all for your time, and please keep the suggestions coming.....matto :)
     
  20. 1sikEH2

    1sikEH2 Member

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    dude that shit is whack. what is up with that solenoid. I think u better put a new solenoid in there. about your harness there is just some wire that the dx harness is missing, not sure what it is. I think you should really get a harness for a 99-00 Si.
     
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