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3 Wheel Civic

Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by chet, Jan 14, 2003.

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  1. chet

    chet Senior Member

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    i apologize about the quality of this picture, but you can get the idea.

    22mm rear sway bar, stiff springs, decent tires, and a rear upper tower bar all contribute to this phenomenon called "the pissing dog."

    [​IMG]
     
  2. VTECcivicVTEC

    VTECcivicVTEC Banned

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    puts snoops 64 to shame. haha, how fast were you going?
     
  3. chet

    chet Senior Member

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    35mph or so, not that fast...i was on campus so speed bumps kinda limit how fast i can actually go.
     
  4. VTECcivicVTEC

    VTECcivicVTEC Banned

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    does it handle well? my car feels like its on rails.
     
  5. chet

    chet Senior Member

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    rear sway bars make a big difference.

    my springs are still too soft, as i'm going to 500-400 rates.

    then it will handle well.
     
  6. sportlinecrx

    sportlinecrx Banned

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    sweet! :D is that pissing dog phenomenon good or bad? i mean it sounds like a badass suspension setup, but that doesnt look too safe.
     
  7. VTECcivicVTEC

    VTECcivicVTEC Banned

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    yeah, thats one thing im missing.
    i have SKUNK2 springs, strut tower bars front and rear upper, and tokico shocks.
    maybe i'll go sway bars next. tires make a HUGE difference though. yokohama S306 works just fine for me.
     
  8. chet

    chet Senior Member

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    the "pissing dog" is good. basically, whats happening is the weight of the vehicle is being transferred to the outside wheel, and rather than experiencing a lot of body roll, the sway bar reduces the roll by putting pressure upwards on the inside wheel. this brings the inside wheel up and puts more pressure on the outside wheel, and reduces overall body roll. if you watch road racing you'll see a lot of this with front wheel drive cars.

    obviously, rear wheel drive vehicles are totally different.
     
  9. VTECcivicVTEC

    VTECcivicVTEC Banned

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    got ya..... but what if you needed to brake...would it slide like crazy or what?
     
  10. chet

    chet Senior Member

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    in that picture i am braking slightly...by braking it kinda increases the effect by transferring the vehicles weight to the nose of the vehicle. this may look unsafe but it actually makes for a setup that handles infinitely better than a car without a sway bar.
     
  11. h82w8

    h82w8 Senior Member

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    hey chet I live in orlando and have seen a civic hatch similar to yours and I'm guessing similar susp. his tag reads 1WHLUP . I always wondered what that meant until I saw him get on I-4 doin I'm guessin about 40 then I knew why!!! nice set up by the way :)
     
  12. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    chet, you need to learn how to crop and make pics bigger!

    The stock early 90's-late 80's GTIs did the pissing dog all the time, for a stock car, those things had good suspention.

    Chet, would you recomend getting front and rear sway bars or just rear. I heard from someone that front sway bars suck in autoX, this true?
     
  13. cxjon

    cxjon Senior Member

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    thats cool as hell mang!!!!
     
  14. civicXer

    civicXer Junior Member

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    chet..what are your present spring rates (front and rear).
    It looks like a perfect suspension set up right now.
    If you stiffen more, would you just do the rear? or both? and by
    how much?
    What shock settings do you use for autox?
    Any special alignment tips for autox would also be helpful. thanks!!
     
  15. chet

    chet Senior Member

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    there are a lot of variables to consider...and really the suspension setup depends on the car.

    i'll try to answer each of the questions asked...first being the front sway bar.

    currently i'm not running thing in the front because the dx came without one. now with front wheel drive cars theoretically its best to have the rear end stiffer than the front. hence the myth that front sway bars aren't good for auto-x. well, the civic type r gets a 26mm front sway bar and i'm sure it would do very well at an auto-x. it also has a 24mm (i think) rear sway bar which would lead a lot of people to think the car would push a lot. (in other words...not turn as well...kinda like pushing to the outside of the turn as if you were entering too fast and couldn't make the entire car rotate) well i cannot speak for honda engineering when they designed the civic type r but i'm sure there is a reason for this setup. you have to factor in the weight of the car, the stiffness of the springs and the size of the sway bars along with the power of the motor.

    for my setup, i have somewhat soft springs (relative to other auto-xing civic hatchbacks that are competitive) with only a 22mm rear sway bar. in the future, i'd like to get extremely stiff springs (compared to what i have now) with rates probably around 450-550. i'll go with 450 up front vs 550 in the rear or like 400 front, 500 rear. the stiffer the rear springs, the better the car turns. now obviously there are certain compromises that are made when having rear suspension that stiff and its ride quality. plus, koni yellows lose effectiveness when the spring rates approach 500 so i'll need to get them revalved.

    as far as auto-xing...i'm still learning what setups work and how the hatchback's weight distribution vs suspension works on different courses.

    a friend of mine named chris (www.b18c5.com is his website) has a civic with a very nice setup. he has racing gear coilovers (2400 for the set) with a stock front sway bar (his car is a 94 civic si hatch) with 25mm rear mugen bar. his rates are like 12k, 10k which comes out to like 500-400 or 600-500 in american rates. he says the stiff rear sway bar compensates for the stiffer front springs allowing for the car to turn as well, without having as much roll considering the majority of the weight is centered over the front two wheels. now again, this setup works for him and he runs times that would put him in the top 10 in the country if he raced at the auto-x nationals. basically, i've seen him beat mark daddio (6-time national champion) on certain days where the course lends itself well to his car.

    so thats about all i can tell you, for my setup i like the rear sway bar without front, although i'm thinking of getting a bigger rear sway bar and 21mm front sway bar. again, it all depends on your setup...
     
  16. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Nice. My sway bar is only 19mm in the rear, but it holds things together in the turns pretty well. My front bar is 26mm, so it helps keep that front end flatter and the rear end planted better... so no pissing dog for me. My turns are much better than stock, even with the heavier engine- I just need stiffer rates (Pro-Kits are too soft) and probably a thicker rear bar. The JICs are now in plan, so those should help me out some when the KYBs come out.

    :D
     
  17. BigJ

    BigJ I'm just about that action Boss. VIP

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    Can all these sway bars cause the myth subrfame tearout?
     
  18. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Yes they can... that's why you run a rear lower tie bar/brace- it keeps you from tearing something out. I haven't had any problems running with my rear 19mm sway also.
     
  19. chet

    chet Senior Member

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    it depends on the design. the progress auto rear sway bar is designed to use the bolts that hold the rear lower control arms. this gives the bar a lot of strength and so far i haven't done any damage to the rear sub frame.

    basically, if the bar uses OEM honda placement and the sway bar is over 22mm i'd say you're at risk for damage.

    in my case, i'm not worried at all...and here is a picture of the sway bar so everyone can see what i'm talking about.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Ah, I see. My Eibach bar uses the same mount points. I haven't had any problems with tear out at all, but then again, I can't use the Neuspeed rear lower bar that I bought either.
     
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