87 Civic problems

[87civic]

Recently, I was given a very clean ’87 Civic 4 door (body and interior are in pristine condition) which I was told had a blown head gasket. I thought, hey no big deal, with the gas prices going out of control, I’ll fix this thing and park my 350 S-10.

After getting the car home, I started to rethink what I had just gotten myself into. I was able to remove the head (after several hours of blood, sweat, and rage) only to find a large piece of the head had been cracked away and the head surface to warped. I did some digging and found that when the car had originally blown the head gasket, the repairs were done by some kids that didn’t know what they were doing and the old head bolts were reused and probably not torqued to the correct specs.

So here's the hundred thousand dollar question, I can get a complete D15B2, ECU, trans, axles, and basically anything else I need for next to nothing for a swap... is the swap doable (without sinking a ton of cash into it) or should I put this thing out to pasture?

 

[lil_red_si]

i do not think so...the mounts i belive are differnet....ask around here or post a want to buy add for that kind of motor...im sure you will find one....even hit up junkyards.....plus the wiring will be a pain swappin into taht car....

 

[Celerity]

Mounts are a bitch - They make the mounts but you won't get away for cheap. Every D swap out there uses the straight-out of the timing cover types of mounts. the Civic has the mounts pushed out to the front of the wheel / behind the headlight. Not impossible - the more fabrication you're personally capable of the easier this (or any) swap will be. Now if you haven't gotten the donor motor yet, may I push you towards a nice ZC ?

The mounts are plug and play, the ECU is too. You have to t off a vacuum line, but man oh man watch the look on people's faces when your little fo-doh starts racking up kills.

Or, I may have a head sitting here I can sell you for that motor. (Shit, if things go well I'll have a whole motor for you from an SI)

 

[87civic]

Thanks for the info all. I do have access to basically anything I need to do any kind of fabrication work and do have some skill at such. And there are several shop and Honda bone yards within less than 50 miles of me.

I’ve noticed that there are several books out on the Honda motor swaps, are they worth getting or is the info readily available to find on the web?

Also being new to any major work or terms on any kind of imports (but all vehicles are mostly the same in the long run), what engine is the “ZC”, what did/does it come out of, and what are the specs?

Thanks again.

 

[87civic]

Well, well, well there's all kind of fun stuff on this little beast... ZC DOHC. So this will swap in and replace my D15A2 with little problem? Oh ya, that would make this grannys car a little bit cooler (not to mention close to a double hp gain).

I'll keep digging and look foward to anymore info and suggestions.

 

[Celerity]

First gen Integras for the win !

It's tough to make them pass emissions if it's required though.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Quoted post[/post]]
Well, well, well there's all kind of fun stuff on this little beast... ZC DOHC. So this will swap in and replace my D15A2 with little problem? Oh ya, that would make this grannys car a little bit cooler (not to mention close to a double hp gain).

I'll keep digging and look foward to anymore info and suggestions.

I think you'll be wanting to look for the older brown top ZCs. The "newer" ZCs have mounts that will cause you the same problems as the D15B2.

 

[87civic]

OK, after a few hours of research and several Tylenol, I’ve come to an end pass and would really like some true and helpful info. From what I can gather through all the clutter, BS, and childish arguing that I’ve read, researched, and been told by local Honda builders is basically I’ve got two choices to swap.

The first is an ’88 – ’89 (some say the ‘87’s are the same) Integra 1.6L F/inj DOHC D16A1 which I’ve been told in conflicting reports that they produce 110hp to 120hp and somewhere around 100tq.

Or for something more… There is the much fabled ZC out of around the same year model Integra but seems to be is a JDM option only which could mean, that I would need to order directly from Japan (oh what fun that could be) and which I am struggling to find any photos of to compare the mounting assemblies.

Before I commit to an engine, I need to know which of these is the better bang for the buck. Which of these is capable of putting out a reasonable amount of hp (somewhere around 200hp; no bottle feed monsters, no turbo, and no supercharger) with a steady and reliable supply of parts and upgrades and without sinking a ton of money into.

 

[capone9399]

The first is an ’88 – ’89 (some say the ‘87’s are the same) Integra 1.6L F/inj DOHC D16A1 which I’ve been told in conflicting reports that they produce 110hp to 120hp and somewhere around 100tq.

113 hp and 99 torque

 

[reckedracing]

OK, after a few hours of research and several Tylenol, I’ve come to an end pass and would really like some true and helpful info. From what I can gather through all the clutter, BS, and childish arguing that I’ve read, researched, and been told by local Honda builders is basically I’ve got two choices to swap.

The first is an ’88 – ’89 (some say the ‘87’s are the same) Integra 1.6L F/inj DOHC D16A1 which I’ve been told in conflicting reports that they produce 110hp to 120hp and somewhere around 100tq.

Or for something more… There is the much fabled ZC out of around the same year model Integra but seems to be is a JDM option only which could mean, that I would need to order directly from Japan (oh what fun that could be) and which I am struggling to find any photos of to compare the mounting assemblies.

Before I commit to an engine, I need to know which of these is the better bang for the buck. Which of these is capable of putting out a reasonable amount of hp (somewhere around 200hp; no bottle feed monsters, no turbo, and no supercharger) with a steady and reliable supply of parts and upgrades and without sinking a ton of money into.

alright, let me try and help you

first off, do you have MPFI or DPFI, this will make a huge diffrence...

the 86-87 integra DOHC D16A1 (113hp) brown top is gonna be your be your cheapest best bet...
you want to find one in the yard or one for sale for cheap
you will need the motor, trans, axles, hubs and spindles, dist, ecu, clutch and flywheel...
this will give you larger front brakes, you'lll also want the shift linkage or your shifter will be moved back (1st will be where 3rd is now)
you're NEED the 86-87 ecu and distributor

you DO NOT want the 88-89 black top motor (118hp)
this motor does not have a vacuum advanced dist and the ecu is diffrent
easiest and cheapest is the 86-87 BROWN TOP

you will need an alignment due to the spindle swap

as far as getting 200 hp with no boost or bottle, look into a B series swap
the DOHC ZC might net you 130-140 but you'll need a miracle to get 200 NA HP

refer to our refrence section
engine list https://hondaswap.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29825
D16A1 (brown top) vs D16A3 (black top)

and this is your holy grail
read it, learn it, love it
walks you through budget swaps and performance mods
https://hondaswap.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29805

 

[87civic]

Engine Code: ZC
Displacement: 1590cc
Horsepower: 129 @ 6800
Torque: 106 @ 5700
Compression: 9.6:1
Bore: 75
Stroke: 90
Cam Design: DOHC
VTEC: No
OBD: 0
Production: '85 – '87 CRX Si ZC (Japan) or '86 – '87 Integra (Japan), maybe even a '86 – '87 Civic (Si version, only in Japan??)

There looks as if there was a ZC engine for '85 – '87 year model Honda’s and Acura’s that seem to be the same engine. They have all the same specs but it’s out of two (maybe three) different cars with Honda introducing it first in the CRX followed possibly by a Si Civic in '86 and again in '87 and then Acura introduced it in their Integra in '86 as well.

To me, this engine seems that it would make for the easiest swap for my ride. The problems that I foresee is finding such a specific engine that is in good, running condition hopefully without countless miles and hours of hard life on it (a 20 year old engine that has been driven on a regular basis could have somewhere between 150k and 200k), at a price that isn't too inflated because of it popularity. Then once I am able to track down the engine, how hard will it be to locate performance modification? The other possibility is finding one of these engines that is on its last leg, so to speak, and build it the way I would like it (if I can get the parts to do so).

Thanks again all for any input, it has sent my gear headed brain into overdrive with ideas and dreams of grandeur.

 

[reckedracing]

that ZC motor alone is gonna run you about 500 bucks shipped

you'd be much better off finding an 86-87 manual integra for 200 bucks, then you have everything you need for the swap

you'd be starting with 113 hp, change out the cams, rods and pistons and you can very easily have a freshly rebuilt ZC for under the importers price for a beat motor...

the brown top is exactly the same except for internals and tuning

how much is that extra 16 hp from a JDM ZC worth to you?

 

[87civic]

Well, I picked up a "mostly complete" D16A1 and a manual trans today. Neither have been used in several years (a project was started but wasn't finished) and I need to find out what they came out of (I know it's going to be an Integra). I would ask the guy that was doing it but he passed about a year ago and his folks don't have a clue. I've got the engine and trans casting numbers and was just wondering where it is I need to go to find the year model of them.

The best part thus far is, everything has been totally free.

 

[hosmer]

Brown valve cover - 86-87
Black valve cover - 88-89

 

[reckedracing]

the 86-87 distributor has 2 vacuum lines running to it for the vacuum advance, the 88-89 will not have this

 

[87civic]

Well damn, this engine has a black valve cover and no vacuum lines on the distributor. After searching the garage where the engine and trans was stored at though, I have found the complete (and I mean the whole nines years) wiring harness. SO, could I swap it all (engine, trans, and wiring) or try to trade it off for the 86-87 D16A1?

 

[reckedracing]

it would be much simplier to stick with the vacuum advanced

you can still use the black top motor, you just need the ecu and distributor from the 86-87

 

[87civic]

So the ecu and distributor from a 86-87 will do the trick on a 88-89. The 88-89 have other sensors and what not that the 86-87 do not have, just plug those of in the engine or where ever else they might be?

Thanks for all the help by the way, this has been fun and informative.