Discussion in 'Civic and CRX - EW' started by field of clouds, Aug 19, 2011.
Problems with fuel and air delivery systems
Oops I double posted. <<< First time forum poster. Anyways I have an 87 CRX-HF 5 speed MT Im having a major problem with my crx idling.
The engine runs very very rough and rich when I can get it going.
Here are things that ive done. Changed the Cap and Roter, Plugs and Wires, Put in a Carburetor Kit, Checked the timing, Checked the timing, Checked the timing, Checked the timing, Checked the timing ,Checked the timing, Checked the firing order, Replaced the fuel filters, Replaced the flexing insulating plate between the carb and the intake manifold.
When i got it a couple days ago it sounded like a box of marbles, once i got the timing adjusted it evened out a little bit. It has 185 lbs. in each cylinder (+-5).
I can choke the carb air off completly and it still can start. I'm wondering if the intake manifold gasket is deteriorated enough to draw air in. How i tested this is getting the engine to start and let off the throttle while lightly spaying carb cleaner around the intake manifold where it meets the head while choking off the carb with a cup that fits snug over the top. The engine picks up with the carb cleaner and the engine does not miss like it would in its untinkered condition.
May someone tell me if I am on the right track? If so, I have looked around for the procedure of removing, inspecting, and reinstalling the intake manifold and the gasket and have not found a definitive guide. Isn't there a air control valve back there to?
Thank you in advance to any reponding information.
"box of marbles"?? Sounds like the water pump and tensioner is either going or gone..
Pull the intake, clean your egr passages, new gaskets with 'gasgasinch' and re-install.
Intake and Vacuum solved, ignition problems revealed
Let me rephrase, since I've been tinkering with it for a while. The sound I was hearing was the engine misfiring/backfiring. It does this hot or cold. Thats why I thought it was the timing. The water pump is ok. The vacuum advance on the roter is fuctioning properly and I tore apart the roter to take a look. Everything was fine. It seems to me this has become narrowed down to a Ignition Coil problem cause I took the main line off of the ignition coil and had it near the Ground Lead on the battery and the spark was an orange/red. I think it is supposed to be a hot clue so maybe the condenser/ignition coil is taking a crap on me. Im putting a working replacement in tomorrow.
<<UPDATE on intake air leak SOLVED:
I have that problem solved, I had a couple air hoses behind and inderneath the intake manifold that have become unplugged/broken that originated from a green vacuum line hookup in a green ended screw thingy. I think it opens a air valve when the coolant/water reaches a certain temp/pressure, there are about 5 of these mechanisms side-by-side by it, im not sure but i think this junk only has to do with emissions so im not so worried. Right now i have the hoses clamped off by channel lock pliers. And for good measure I replaced the Intake Manifold Gasket. I can spray carb cleaner around the area and it does not effect how the engine ildes so I think it is safe to assume that problem is fixed. Plus, there is more suction on the air cleaner and the engine will straight up die when my hand chokes off the carb.
Purchased defective Coil
When I replaced the old coil with the new there was absolutely no spark, there is still a spark with the old unit. Hopefully acquiring another new working replacement tomorrow morning.
If anyone has any pointers or suggestions please interject. I am pretty new to fixing up cars n' stuff. Any help at all is greatly appreciated, thank you.
Another dead end...
I replaced the ignition coil and I am still having issues. Since I've taken a good look at the valve lash, the distributor, coil, plugs and wires timing, air flow and compression, I have decided that I just might as well take the vehicle down to the Honda dealership to take a look at it. I was trying not to shell out an hours worth of labor to these guys but I hear there is a guy there that knows a lot about these particular engines.
I'm hoping that I didn't adjust the timing right, or something dumb like that. It has got to be just one little simple thing.
By the way, I was tinkering with the wires while the engine was struggling to idle ( I know it not good for the coil, but was at a dead end) and noticed something valuable, the engine was not firing on cylinders 3 and 4 but it was on 1 and 2 just fine. This puzzled the shit out of me. I hadn't noticed this fact before because the engine ran so rough and shitty and wouldn't idle. Also if I removed the Bottom Tube going in the distributor the engine ran fine ( on all two cylinders). I just dont know anymore. But we will see tomorrow.
Almost there, I think I have the problem narrowed
Whew... So I took the car down to the nearest Honda dealership and believe it or not, there wasn't a mechanic there that had profieciency in carburated engines. This blew my damn mind. I shelled 90 bucks for them to take a look for an hour. The technician didn't tell me anything I didn't already know and I was very disapointed with the whole thing. They sent me in the direction of raplacing stupid little things like the valve cover gasket, and the spark plugs which were new and properly gapped. The only thing that they did give me is that they said the fuel line pressure was low and he corrected the timing which I had set with no timing light. I was off by two teeth(didnt make a whopping difference anyway, that could be frustration talking) . They didnt say how much the line pressure was low but nonetheless I bought a fuel pump from an auto parts store, installed and the problem persisted.
I look at it like this...
I know there is :
Good compression on all cylinders
Good distributor, coil, plugs, firing order, and wires
Correct amount of air intake, (no leaks).
100 percent correct timing
Correct valve lash for intake and exhaust valves
Good fuel line pressure with both fuel filters changed
With that being said, the only thing I could possibly imagine would be the jets in the carb, The float is good and all, but there has to be a problem with fuel delivery. I tried the carb cleaner squirt into the carb while running and I could hear the engine smooth out, but I hope this wasnt just due to the fact that it was just running at greater RPMs. I understand that these carbs are always giving people shit nowadays and people just fold and get webbers but I would like to see if I cant tear it apart and replace/clean/test what I can.
They reason I think it is the carb is that the engine will run, but not idle. Idle jet clogged/broken? Float level is ok, so the needle valve must be ok. Fuel is delivered but only through and extreme accellerator pedal smashing. Runs to rich, maybe the fuel is dripping in and not spraying? But the engine seems to only want to run on 1st and 2nd cylinders, not 3 or 4. Not sure though. Tearing apart today with the beast cleaning I can perform.
right now it seems only a few options:
have the carburator rebuild by a shop
clean the bastard out
or fully tune it up myself.
We will see
Gotta replace the Carburetor, no choice
The float level is ok and all the jet passages look just fine but I took it off and cleaned is out and replace what gaskets and whatnot that I could and it didn't work still.
I've seen packages such as the K 726 Weber carb replacement for my ride, perfect replacement by what I can tell for mounting and all. I think my auto part store has em for about 350 and ebay for 330ish new.
Ill post after i can get the carb installed
What about a carb re-build kit?
Wow, someone is actually reading this.
I bought a carburetor rebuild kit for the stock carb on an 87 CRX but it only came with a set of gaskets and orings, it didnt have any of the good stuff like new jets or anything. There were some diaphrams but after all that mess the carb didn't like its fixup afterall. I could have always have it wrong, but im feeling pretty solid on my assembly/disassembly and it ran exactly the same after thinkering with it.
redpepperracing.com A lot of carb guys there.
Red Pepper Racing -> Carbs
Thanks for the info
Thanks Airjockie, that was litterally the most useful thing that anyone has helped me with on this forum. I appreciate it. Anyways, I though a new carb would ultimatley be the smartest thing to go with. I ordered a K726 Carb and I would expect it to be here in a week or two. I'm pumped, the swap sounds very easy. When I get enough post I hope to have pictures of what I got so far.
Problem Solved !!!!
Wow, did this take a while. I got the webber on there but to my surprise it was doing the same thing. Not too bad, considering I have a way better carburetor anyhow.
The PROBLEM was... When I took the intake manifold off the first time, I removed the gasket to be raplaced. I took it down to the parts shot and asked for an identical.
As a last ditch effort, I removed the intake manifold just to see whats up because I still had a massive air leak coming in another place besides the carb. I looked closely at the head and there was carbon buildup in a peculiar pattern. I inspeced the gasket I had placed on there and noticed that IT WAS THE WRONG ONE. The guy who tried to fix this car up before me had installed the wrong gasket, he installed the intake manifold gasket for the Canadian model of the same year. After I put the right gasket in it purred. I also washed the engine up a little with simple green and noticed that it look like the head was treated recently. He said the engine had undergone some maintenance before he decided to "fix" whatever issue he was having. I don't think a brand new engine could seriously sound any better than the one I have! Im so pumped. The only exception is when warmed up the rockers make a little bit of noise <fixing tomorrow
It idles perfectly at 750ish (accesories/battery is kinda low)
The guy also had the fan wired to a switch, but wired up backwards.
Ive also managed to remove every bit of emmisions on the engine, the only vacuum line i have is the advance from distributor to carb. It stays cool and feels like a go-kart. Just like id thought it would, I've never drivin it before. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey there, I have an 87 CRX HF also, and it hasn't run right since I got it 4 years ago. Well, I just parked it, and gave up. But after reading your posts here, I think I will take it out of storage and have another go at it. Is your HF still running good now, a year after you last posted to this thread?
It still doesn't look like that much, but it runs as good as ever lately. I finally have messed around with the carburetor to get it tuned just right. The mileage is excellent (prob 30ish in town). As you can probably see, I had to do it with trial and error. No one was any help, just threw me links to other forums, but I've dealt with every other problem besides the power train below the head. I would love to help you solve whatever problems you have. If I had the know how I do now after monkeying with it, I would have saved A LOT of time.
Good stuff, great job!!
Hi, was wondering if you still have the crx. I just picked up a 87 carburetor and wanted some input. Thanks.
I had since sold the car. It broke my heart to do so. I still remember most of the issues I had trying to get the relic to breathe again. I have very little knowledge about the stock carbs and their precise functionality. I only understood the necessity of the vacuum advance and the process of tuning the fuel/air ratio. As I believe I had stated previously, I had swapped entirely for a new Webber Carb and Base Plate for %100 assuredness that there were no vacuum leaks. An unsavory process I would do time and time again if I were in the same predicament. Anyways, this is probably not related to your issue. I am not a mechanic, but I will do as none really did for me. I will help with your question to the best of my ability. Too little of these gems are on the roads these days.
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